Quote Originally Posted by serenechaos View Post
The bottleneck is still mana, because if you have enough you can just use dump a bunch of mana into Shigeki to get back lands and cantrips. I also strongly suggest the black for Salvage and Alchemy, because they basically say "Draw 4/5" if you're attempting to go off.
Well in that game the issue was I didn't have Shigeki, and the other tools were not efficient at digging for it (some variance because all copies were near bottom of library).

In another game I had Shigeki but not Turtle. I could have used it to return a bunch of lands and Growth Spirals, but that's a lot of mana to not dig very deep. If I had access to Zenith, I always went for it, because it just converts mana into cards more efficiently.

If you have more cards, you can easily make more mana. 1 Zenith would draw me into 3 untaps and/or another 1-2 Dictates.

Edit: Spending that mana on flashback Forbidden Alchemy and friends is one option, but if I have 25+ mana floating, doing anything other than drawing 15+ cards seems bad. But I see why Grisly Salvage digs effectively.