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Thread: [Deck] NoCantrip.deck

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    Legacy Inept

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    Oct 2005
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    [Deck] NoCantrip.deck

    History of the deck
    In order to follow the reasoning that lead me to that deck, here is the chronology of my thoughts:
    1/ I tried a merfolk list quite close to the first Finn posted on The Source's Thread:
    http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7355
    This list was already very good. The merfolks that were played were the power three (lord/reejerey/silvergil) plus a land transformer for 1CC plus 2 copies of Seasinger. There was quite the same disruption suite than the one I play now (port/waste/Fow/Daze/stifle).
    2/ I quite quickly abandonned the stifle to play another land transformer (Stifle remained in SB).
    3/ After some testing I noticed that these land transformers were bad since they only prevented my opponent to play double colored spells. So I removed them to play protected creatures such as vodalian zombie or the white one protected against red.
    4/ Then I noticed that terravore continued to trample over my face and that pilly couldnot be blocked by these protected red creatures. I also noticed that my deck was lacking draw. I tried 2 versions, 1 with standstill and confidant and 1 with confidant and tarmogoyf.
    5a/ The one with Standstill and Confidant was good but was lacking a creature that could make the difference by itself, or basically stall the game the time I overrun my opponent with my over boosted creatures.
    5b/ I liked a lot this version. I played Aquitect's Will in it as been a the only reliable land transformer, being also a great pump for tarmo, and being a cantrip. And I even did a tourney with it (the one that is reported). I did a fair result given the bad MU I encountered but I was really disappointed by my seasingers.
    6/ I decided to switch the SB slot of Jitte with the MD slot of Seasinger. Then I posted the list on CANGD.
    7/ As I was not playing Seasinger MD anymore, I had no reason to keep a transformer in the MD, but removing another merfolk was a bit scary to me. However I did not want to play any other merfolk. Only Voldalian Zombie would be a defendable slot. I did not test it though. I tested MD Stifle because I wanted a first turn card and I thought that another MD would be great. I updated the CANGD entry with it.
    8/ Then, with only 12 merfolks MD, my testing were really good but I felt that they were most of the time just fair creatures with 2-power, sometimes 3. I found too that I was a bit unnecessarily exposed to pyroclasm and engineered plague. That's why I wanted to try the deck with good blue (for FoW and to keep the splashes very light) creatures instead of merfolks. I simply posted the deck as a reference in the CANGD entry, but my entry remains the merfolk list, because I won't have time to complete the testings with that new nocantrip/goodcreatures.deck.

    If you want more information about the 7/ build, which is the best merfolk deck I could build, I refer you to:
    http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8097

    The merfolk part of my branstorming is not really relevant in this thread. But the merfolk fillers are still under development.

    Introduction
    After some brainstorming, I concede that the tribal synergy of the merfolks are good but not transcendant, and I was wondering if the deck would not be better with creatures that are good in themselves. However some constraints need to be respected:
    - The first constraint is that the creatures need to be blue in order to feed FoW with enough consistency
    - In order to keep the nice mono colored mana property, I wished them to be only U and not UU.
    - In order not to messup too much with Vial, I wanted also only 2CC and 3CC creatures. 1CC creature would be acceptable, but it should be very powerful or very uselful in early game.
    - I wanted also some evasion in order to feed jitte without exposing my creatures to a tarm block.
    - Big P/T or big utility
    - Does not rely on graveyard. I don't want to leave my SB planar voids, or be too much impacted by such cards from my opponent.

    The creatures I considered up to now :
    - Serendib Efreet is clearly the best call. It's perfect against mongoose. It hurts a bit but Jitte is here, and usually it hurts far more my opponent than myself. It's absolutely a 4-of.
    - In the same idea of Serendib, Sea Drake is a must. However, the fact that it may slow me down a lot, and that it has to trade against mongoose or gilded drake is really an issue. It may interact incely with vial and fetches though.
    - Gilded Drake. Not really an evasive guy, as it's going to be given to your opponent but:
    ....* It steals tarmogoyfs/terravore/crushers/confidants/Akroma, angel of Wrath/Dreadnaught/random big animated creature.
    ....* It can be blocked by Serendib Efreet with no casualty.
    ....* It can't be stifled. It means that it cannot be countered when played through vial, except with a Mother of Runes. It also means that you cannot play it if your opponent has nothing to target which can be problematic sometimes.
    - Manowar, nice against a lot of stuff, quite the sames as the Gilded Drake's targets. But not as much powerful. Manowar is very nice in combo with Gilded Drake.
    - Nimble Mongoose. Does not fit the not GY dependant constraint.
    - Sage of Epityr. I love the guy. you can play vial turn 1 and vial it before your first draw which is crazy. However, It looks too weak is long games. And I really love my curve with no 1CC spells except Vial and Stifle.
    - Shadowmage Infiltrator. It's really nice for a lot of reasons, evasive, CA, can be pitched to FoW, quite strong body BUT:
    ....* difficult to play (double coloured mana and black mana)
    ....* makes the Engineered Plague on wizards too strong.
    - Trygon Predator. very nice but it's difficult to play too:
    ....* evasive
    ....* deals with stuff I can't deal with in first game
    ....* completes the mana disruption by removing moxen
    ....* can be pitched to FoW
    ....* quite strong body.
    - Raven Familiar: it's nice with vial, as a chump blocker or looking for a solution.
    - standstill + conclave: the deck was crying for standstill. Being aggro, playing vial and a lot of anti-lands.
    - Epochrasite: really synergic with the vials. Does not require coloured mana which is quite often often relevant. It is not blue and this is a pain because I can't pitch it to FoW. And it has no other "utility" than being a recurrent 4/4. It looks a bit weak compared to all the good blue beaters we have.

    The list
    The list I tested quite a lot up to now. I did not make such heavy testings as I did with merfolk for the CANGD, because I think that the MUs are quite the same, with certainly a better control MU. There are a lot of heavy control decks on MWS these last weeks and it's really fun to be able to control them and rape them at the same time. Their only relevant threat is shackles and at the time they can play it through my land destruction, they usually face my superior super draw engine and my free mana counterspells:

    // Lands 23
    3 [ON] Flooded Strand
    1 [b] Island (2)
    3 [ON] Polluted Delta
    3 [A] Underground Sea
    2 [R] Tropical Island
    4 [TE] Wasteland
    4 [MM] Rishadan Port
    3 [10E] Faerie Conclave

    // Creatures 15
    4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
    4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
    3 [US] Gilded Drake

    // Spells 22
    4 [DS] AEther Vial
    4 [AL] Force of Will
    4 [NE] Daze
    3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    4 [SC] Stifle
    3 [OD] Standstill

    // Sideboard
    SB: 4 [US] Planar Void
    SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
    SB: 4 [FD] Engineered Explosives
    SB: 3 [MI] Mind Harness

    Notice that 1 tropical island from the merfolk manabase was replaced with 1 Conclave.
    I am still very unsure about Gilded Drake, especially against Trygon Predator.
    I am also not completely sure about the conclaves and the Standstill. Once could imagaine the following suite to replace the 12 Merfolks with a lot of evasion and control:
    4*Serendib
    2*Gilded Drake
    3*Manowar/Repeal
    3*Trygon Predator/Sea Drake
    My main worries about this suite is the bad synergy between Gilded Drake and Trygon Predator/Sea Drake.

    The Basic NoCantrip Idea
    The cantrips are cool to find a solution, raise the blue count for FoW and feeding the grave. First, we have no need to feed the grave anymore. The best creatures do'nt need it anymore (tarmo&confidant). Second, there are very good blue creatures (see the list above) and the disruption pack is often enough to raise the blue cards count to 20/24. Third, one should stop thinking that thay have no cost:
    - it costs mana
    - it is counterbalanceable/chaliceable/trinisphereable
    - it forces you to play a lot of blue mana sources
    - your hand is often not readable anymore

    My opinion is that cantrips are highly overrated in legacy. It's good in combo, bad in aggro, nice in very small quantity in control (4*brainstorm basically, in order to fix the mana curve), and it can be as good as bad in aggro control. But now every blue deck plays them. It's insane.

    This deck has an history that made me find a new shell for a U-based aggro control with no cantrip. It wins against most control on the strength of vial, mana deinal and card advantage (dark confidant and standstill). It wins aggro control on mana denial and big creatures that are too aggro for them generally. It has a very good MD disruption against combo (4 stifle, 4 daze, 4 FoW) and quite a nice clock (far better than thresh's for instance). Only full aggro decks are difficult to manage because the mana denial plan is not relevant as the threats come down before I can start it.

    \\ updated stuff for record //

    3 Tourneys (3/15, 3/50 and 1/46)
    16 matches (14-2)
    16 games preboard (13-3)
    22 games postboard (16-6)
    38 games (29-9)

    Decks encountered:
    Alluren: 1-0 (2-0)
    Belcher: 1-0 (2-0)
    Burn: 2-0 (4-1)
    Dragon Stompy: 1-0 (2-0)
    Enchantress: 1-0 (2-0)
    Eternal Garden: 1-0 (2-1)
    Faerie Stompy: 2-0 (4-1)
    Goblins: 1-0 (2-0)
    Ichorid: 1-1 (3-3)
    Pox: 1-0 (2-0)
    Reanimator: 1-0 (2-1)
    Threshold Ugr: 0-1 (0-2)
    Togless Tog: 1-0 (2-0)
    Last edited by Maveric78f; 07-07-2008 at 12:29 PM.

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