Quote Originally Posted by Deep6er View Post
1) The point that you're missing with Extirpate against Ichorid is the question of, "will you mulligan for it?" If the answer is yes, then you've effectively mulliganed to x-1.
Not sure I follow, explain this more thoroughly when you get back.


If no, then getting blown out because you didn't have your hate is a logical way for you to lose that game.
The majority of the time I won't mulligan to find Extirpate against Ichorid, largely because the decks I play have answers that are decent in the first place, or because there are other cards I boarded in that I'm less happy to see, but based on the rest of my hand are just fine against most Ichorid hands.

For instance, saying I'm playing ITF (or maybe a Threshold varient) against Ichorid. In game 2, my opening hand is 2 fetches, Goyf, Swords, EE, Brainstorm, Force. Despite the fact that I don't have hate in this hand, I'm not mulliganning. EE provides protection against them comboing temporarily, Swords takes down an Ichorid or Narco before they get to flashback Therapy keeping Bridge form triggering at least once, Goyf blocks Ichorid and if they get unlucky and don't mill Bridges provides pressure (as a 3 turn clock likely against the damage they do to themselves), Force keeps their first discard outlet from resolving, and Brainstorm if it doesn't get pitched to Force (gigantic if here) is probably digging me into the hate I brought in.


Additionally, Extirpate is still the easiest graveyard hate to see coming. Unmask and Cabal Therapy are going to be huge beatings for you. If you didn't drop Crypt/Leyline on turn 0/1, then it's pretty obvious you have either Jailer or Extirpate. The benefit in assuming this is the fact that if they're wrong, and you don't have it, you have no relevant plays.

The fact that you're sitting on Extirpate (and in many cases obviously so),
Why exactly would you be sitting on Extirpate? Ichorid is the beatdown. They are required to act (sure, they'll slow roll if they think they've got time).

The first target you see, you Extirpate it immediately. They milled a Bridge, it gets Extirpated immediately. They mill an Ichorid? It gets Extirpated. They mill a Narcomoeba (with Cabal Therapy in the bin)? It get's Extirpated in response to it's trigger. They mill all 3 all at once, you Extirpate Bridge. You should be looking first and foremost to Extirpate Bridge, but the majority of the time, you're 100% OK trading 1 card and 1 Black mana 1 for 1 with their creatures acting like an uber Swords to Plowshares that rips copies out of their graveyard hand and Library and doesn't give them life in the process (I'm unsure if you can Extirpate Ichorid in response to them removing a black dude, but if that's possible then that might give you more incentive to sit on it, it's largely inconsequential as Extirpating Ichorid is fairly strong as it leaves them with likely a maximum of 5 non-token creatures they can have in play, Putrid and 4 Narcos, resulting in far less Zombie tokens, Swords/Bolt/Fanatic cuts down further on the number of non-token guys they can have in play).

Crypt is so much stronger and requires them to dramatically alter their structure of plays, while Leyline is the strongest (supposing you land it on turn 0) in that their plays are dominated by the logistical nightmare of finding an answer to it and then beating you in a short timeframe.
This is wrong. Again, they don't have reactive answers to Extirpate, like they do for Leyline and Crypt (Chain, Needle, Ray of Revelation). If their game plan is to simply slow roll until they can Therapy you naming Extirpate, then chances are Extirpate has bought enough time for you to win anyways (you found other cards you can play in the meantime such as Deed). Leyline is poor because you have to mulligan to it. Again, if my hand has Swords, Force, EE/Deed and a Brainstorm or two, I'd much rather have Extirpate in my deck against Ichorid than Leyline. Leyline is just bad.


Nantuko Shady: "Sweet, Leyline is in my opening 6, I keep" (as he plays Nimble Mongoose)
kirdape3: "Is Force of Will and another Blue card in your opening 6?" (as he plays LED and then Chain of Vapor)
Shady: "... No"
kirdape3: "You Lose."


The problem with Crypt is that they're bringing in Needle and/or Chain. If you sit on it, they can play Needle and stop it anyways. If sit on it, they can accidently "Oops I win" you anyways. If you sit on it, they can Therapy naming it it just like they would against Extirpate (with the added benefit of you not being able to respond to Therapy with it). If you don't sit on it, they can sit around until the draw Needle/Chain of Vapor and play them, then proceed to combo you.

In order to win match-ups you need a larger number of relevant cards then your opponents. Having 8 hate cards that you mulligan to is a sure fire way of losing since Ichorid's board deals with the hate the cards fairly effectively (aside from Extirpate, if you mull to Extirpate you allow them the opportunity to slow roll you by not having other obstacles you're putting in their way such as Goyf, Mogg Fanatic, EE/Deed, or Swordsing a guy in the upkeep/draw).

Extirpate doesn't require you to mulligan to it in order for it to be good, allowing the rest of the cards in your deck to do their job.

I have yet to lose a game to Ichorid where I've resolved Extirpate. I can't say the same about Tormod's Crypt (and I've seen the Leyline bounced far too often to realize I'm not running that card). Granted Parcher and Anwar are likely to be stronger Ichorid players then the players I've played against, but I'll still take the card that I've had the best experience with thus far.