[Deck] The EPIC Elf Survival

[Di]

That said, I don't know if it's possible to squeeze in additional lords if you're already running NO.
So do we go for a split up between the lords?
Is 3 NO md enough or is the full ps more viable?
Would you mind sharing a list, Di?
Mostly I like your approaches but I'm running a Windux like list at the moment.

I'll admit I'm having slight difficulty grasping this deck with the addition of the new lord; it throws things off so much from the convenional wisdom we've had with this deck.

For starters, 3 Natural Order is fine. Although it's the nuts and a nigh auto-win, I've often been dissatisfied with the full set myself because they are expensive and clunky. One of the deck's weaknesses lies within itself of being mana light without a lot of acceleration, and that's where Order is terrible. Drawing into multiples can be a burden if you're stuck on mana the entire game, which is unfortunately becoming more common given the rise of aggressive disruption in the form of red/zoo and such. In those instances it's very difficult to hit Natural Order, so it isn't a terrible choice to not run all of them. I still personally feel its best to run all of them, but again it isn't a bad choice if you have another decent card for the slot.

As far as a split up, yes, but I'll get to that in a second. The list BirdMan posted was derived right before he made that post, with a theoretical 12-lord build. On paper I liked it, but after testing I found it to be rather unsatisfactory, and that was pretty much confirmed after I played in a small local tournament yesterday. Aside from Imperious Perfect, the other lords are only strong with an army surrounding them. Should that not happen, then they're incredibly weak. I still feel the deck needs creatures that can be individually strong in order to have success, whether that be Tarmogoyf or Wren's Run Vanquisher. There are far too many decks out there that can just kill a lord and then your team goes from decent to terrible. Now regarding the split, I think it's fine, but I wouldn't personally go over 9-10 lords. If anything is cut, it's Champions. I've seen their value in the deck decrease tremendously over the last few months because of their lack of a decent ability. Decks are getting more aggressive and forestwalk with 1-2 other elves isn't enough to cut it sometimes. Post-M10, I imagine I'd have a lord setup somewhere along the lines of 4 Imperious Perfect, 3 Elvish Archdruid, and 2 Elvish Champion, leaving those other slots where lords could be to running either Tarmogoyf or Wren's Run Vanquisher.

However, that isn't concrete. I don't have a solidified list post-M10 because I don't have enough testing in. What's important is to not let these additional lords sway deckbuilding to the point of making bad matchups worse. Cutting important spells in bad matchups for these lords can be a mistake imo, which I believe some people may lose sight of by the potential prospect of running a full 12.

If your bad matches are Combo, which sees little play, and Ichorid which sees even less play... I think you're in a good position.

I'm loving this deck so far. Few people expect something like Natural Order > Progenitus. Screw you EPlague!

There are still other bad matchups though. Landstill, Aggro Loam, and Zoo to name a few, and collectively they see a decent amount of play.

Landstill is actually a winnable matchup. Krosan Grip solves Humility, and Choke from the board is sick. Survival decks are notoriously 50/50 with Landstill. It depends on the make of Landstill and the skill of both players. If they built their deck to do well against the Countertop decks, they're probably neglecting their aggro matchup, and you might not even see a Wrath.

This is false. The matchup is winnable, but still isn't good. Survival is only on the bank with Landstill when it's paired with disruption. We have none, and are prone to all their removal and sweepers. I've played against it a lot and I've only managed to win if I'm able to either stick an early Survival or Natural Order, or somehow recover from a Wrath of God faster than they find the second. The sideboard helps, but they also have a board, and paired with so much stuff maindeck it's hard for us push that last 5 or so life. Given how popular that deck is becoming, I think the sideboard may be a bit more geared to handling it, but it's still always going to be an uphill battle. Also, if a Landstill player designed their deck to beat Countertop they're probably doing something wrong; the curve of that deck is so high it shouldn't have to worry about that. Counterbalance will not counter Elspeth or Humility, so it's mostly irrelevant to their gameplan.

The deck loses to tempo threshold and goyf sligh/zoo, that was the main reason players put goyf into the deck (which made the deck significatively less strong against the rest of the field).

False. Tarmogoyf was added to the deck to act as an individual threat against control decks so you didn't overextend into sweepers like Pyroclasm and Engineered Plague. It's the ideal non-elf answer to handle removal. It also happened to improve virtually every single matchup. Saying the opposite is absolutely ridiculous, so I suggest you re-read the thread so you can correct your logic with a small history lesson. Or I could ask if you've ever actually played the deck in a high-level event, or even tested it, because your claims suggest otherwise.