[Primer] Nic Fit

[Brael]

I let go of strict requirements for the most part (reminds me of work too much), but I think my current list'll hold up quite well to the standards we set out at first. I believe Brael's the more active contributor to the SE list.

My role has been more Gandalf, gently nudging Braelbo out his frontdoor to continue the SE adventure . All kidding aside, he's made awesome progress with the SE list.

Echelon can attest to this, I come up with A LOT of theory, some of them better than others.

[JackaBo]

Hi!

Personnaly, I have exchanged my thoughtseize with collective brutality and never looked back. So seize are in SB instead f duress.

21 lands are few IMO. Would go to 61 by adding a plain.

I've not tested leap yet so I can't give my opinion with 3 GSZ for only 4 vet.

I think proscription is better than O ring (flash + cycling) but still not tested it (quite obviously)

Great feedback, thanks to you!

I will definitly try brutality:Added answers to DRS will surely be helpful since they wreck the deck.

An extra land will be added. Note though that the deck BG with a white splash for rector and a few SB cards. Not sure a second plains specifically is warranted. Perhabs a second Tower since tower-draws can be very busted.

I'll keep proscription in mind when in test the sideboard.

[Ulysse95]

Great feedback, thanks to you!

I will definitly try brutality:Added answers to DRS will surely be helpful since they wreck the deck.

An extra land will be added. Note though that the deck BG with a white splash for rector and a few SB cards. Not sure a second plains specifically is warranted. Perhabs a second Tower since tower-draws can be very busted.

I'll keep proscription in mind when in test the sideboard.

Yes, at first I would have tell tower because you run only one of it, then I make my mind that the reason was you have 3 leap for sac effect.
I saw that you have only humility which need the WW, so one plain can do the job, yeah.
I think you'll find out quickly which land you need in the end :)

[Bobmans]

So, the final spoilers have arrived, and i thought the following cards are most interesting, but not really standing out much.



Hexproof is real nice, but doesn't impact the board on ETB and for 6 mana i had expected at least Trample to make it worthwhile.



More for Jund, but i do not think it will improve Jund anyhow, this could be more nice next to Tarmogoyf, which really isn't NicFit. Dies to bolt and Decay.. I wouldnt run this over Tracker, Courser or even Nissa, Vastwood Seer.



Propably the most interesting card. Could kill Veteran Explorer, but on 5 CMC we probably have enough. It does have a recurring board control effect. Pity it is 5 CMC and brings a rather un interesting body to the field.



Seems interesting on first sight, but thinking about it, Scryb Ranger does this better.

[tilzinger]

Those all just seem bad to me. The Croc and that RG haste dude are about the only cards I'd consider, and even then they would be in the SB to be used as Jace killers.

[Lobo]

Of all the variants, Nyx Fit stands to gain the most from this set. Cruel Reality and Sandwurm Convergence make me want to relegate Doomwake/Curse/Plane to the sideboard, to be brought in as a hedge against graveyard hate or white exile effects. But absent those, why should we bother trying to assemble a two-card win condition when just one will do?

I like the idea of running both of the new enchantments as one-ofs. Ideally we can Rector for whichever best suits the board at the time. Having one of each helps provide insurance against drawing and being unable to cast one or the other, and Collective Brutality's discard mode should help with that problem as well. Starfield would then provide backup, as it does.

Testing will tell, but I foresee a pretty dramatic jump in the deck's power level, at least in game one. We would become more susceptible to graveyard hate or exile effects out of the board, though, since our wincons are very hard to resolve without Rector's help, and Rector needs to hit the graveyard to trigger. This may be reason enough to keep the old Living Plane plan in our 75—but perhaps not in the core 60.

[Purple Blood]

I was looking around the primer for a GSZ guide but I haven't found out.

My general strategy is, if I have Therapy but no VE, I GSZ turn two so I can hopefully go Therapy/VE/Therapy/two drop as my first two turns. If I already have VE then I hold GSZ until I can tutor for a bigger threat.

Which dovetails into another thing I've been thinking of: some of my worst hands involve having VE but no sac outlet and then getting stuck on three lands. Been trying to think of a suitable way to tutor a way to kill my VE. Maybe Channeler's Initiate would fit the bill? But even then its kind of late and can only be done turn three. Then again, he's probably at least an upgrade over STE even if he's a turn slower than I'd want.

Another really bad situation is having my VE swordsed. How do you guys play around this? Maybe I should be naming swords with therapy and then brainstorm on the flash back.

[Luthiereisfun]

I was looking around the primer for a GSZ guide but I haven't found out.

My general strategy is, if I have Therapy but no VE, I GSZ turn two so I can hopefully go Therapy/VE/Therapy/two drop as my first two turns. If I already have VE then I hold GSZ until I can tutor for a bigger threat.

Which dovetails into another thing I've been thinking of: some of my worst hands involve having VE but no sac outlet and then getting stuck on three lands. Been trying to think of a suitable way to tutor a way to kill my VE. Maybe Channeler's Initiate would fit the bill? But even then its kind of late and can only be done turn three. Then again, he's probably at least an upgrade over STE even if he's a turn slower than I'd want.

Another really bad situation is having my VE swordsed. How do you guys play around this? Maybe I should be naming swords with therapy and then brainstorm on the flash back.

This depends on what Nic Fit list you're building but I am a huge fan of DRS. Most lists I see run 1-2 but I like to lean more on 2-3. It's just more ramp in the deck to help you establish mana, MD gy hate and he can gain life which is relevant when trying to stabilize against initial onslaughts. In the matchups where Vet is bad you can side them out but still feel pretty good about DRS playing the ramp role.

If I was looking for more cheap sac outlets I would look at running either an extra tower (could go up to 2 if you run 1, 3 might start making general mana shaky). Or you could run something like innocent blood as a cheap sac effect.

I would love to hear others thoughts on this but as of late when I name with Cabal Therapy I think about my cards in hand, the deck aim playing against and what role that puts me in. If you have a hand with a lot of action where you being pro-active will set the pace of the game then I will name something to protect what I have or am trying to resolve etc.. and if I know I can go bigger then them. If our hand is slower, not quite as much action I will name what I think will slow them down most and be most disruptive to their game plan.

[JackaBo]

Testing will tell, but I foresee a pretty dramatic jump in the deck's power level, at least in game one. We would become more susceptible to graveyard hate or exile effects out of the board, though, since our wincons are very hard to resolve without Rector's help, and Rector needs to hit the graveyard to trigger. This may be reason enough to keep the old Living Plane plan in our 75—but perhaps not in the core 60.

With the prevalence of targeted graveyard hate i suppose ground seal could be a decent sideboard card.

[square_two]

Another really bad situation is having my VE swordsed. How do you guys play around this? Maybe I should be naming swords with therapy and then brainstorm on the flash back.

Against what decks are you seeing VE sworded? Miracles it's generally fine since you don't want them with basics anyway.

I'm usually fine with seeing VE get exiled. Means one less removal for one of your intermediate to late-game creatures. You can dip into either Innocent Blood or Diabolic Tutor if you want more sac outlets outside of 4 Therapy, 2 Phyrexian Tower.

[Purple Blood]

Against what decks are you seeing VE sworded? Miracles it's generally fine since you don't want them with basics anyway.

I'm usually fine with seeing VE get exiled. Means one less removal for one of your intermediate to late-game creatures. You can dip into either Innocent Blood or Diabolic Tutor if you want more sac outlets outside of 4 Therapy, 2 Phyrexian Tower.

Yea as soon as I posted that I realized I should have clarified because people would assume I'm talking about Miracles. Against Miracles I'm usually siding out my VE to go up to 4 DRS/AD.

There's a guy who plays Bant 12-Post every week in our group and another guy who plays a SFM deck.

[Cringe]

Here is what I've come up with for my own Nyxfit decklist. It looked extremely weird when putting it together but running left me feeling good about it.

LANDS
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains

CREATURES
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Academy Rector
2 Eternal Witness

ENCHANTMENTS
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sterling Grove
1 Sandwurm Convergence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Cruel Reality
1 Humility

PLANESWALKERS
2 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

INSTANTS/SORCERY
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

SIDEBOARD
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Lost Legacy
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 (Open slots) Starfield?

I have to do more testing, but there isn't much to test against around here. Any suggestions for the 2 slots in the board?

[Brael]

This depends on what Nic Fit list you're building but I am a huge fan of DRS. Most lists I see run 1-2 but I like to lean more on 2-3. It's just more ramp in the deck to help you establish mana, MD gy hate and he can gain life which is relevant when trying to stabilize against initial onslaughts. In the matchups where Vet is bad you can side them out but still feel pretty good about DRS playing the ramp role.

If I was looking for more cheap sac outlets I would look at running either an extra tower (could go up to 2 if you run 1, 3 might start making general mana shaky). Or you could run something like innocent blood as a cheap sac effect.

I would love to hear others thoughts on this but as of late when I name with Cabal Therapy I think about my cards in hand, the deck aim playing against and what role that puts me in. If you have a hand with a lot of action where you being pro-active will set the pace of the game then I will name something to protect what I have or am trying to resolve etc.. and if I know I can go bigger then them. If our hand is slower, not quite as much action I will name what I think will slow them down most and be most disruptive to their game plan.

Edit: Lets try writing this again, this time not on mobile.

My experience has been that with Nic Fit, or any other ramp deck for that matter, that if you don't get your mana sources you're basically not in the game. I've tried solving this for Nic Fit by attacking it from both ends. First of all, I'll continue advocating the idea of going wide, lowering your curve, and increasing card velocity. That way you can still play when you don't have mana, you just do more when you do. The other solution I've found though is to increase my ability to ramp. I don't think that 4 Veteran Explorer/4 Cabal Therapy is enough. Instead, I supplement my Explorers with Deathrite Shamans going up to 6 sources of mana (and in my SB I have another 4 sources, sometimes they swap for Vets, sometimes they just come in), and I increase the sacrifice side too. I run 1 Phyrexian Tower which adds a 5th sacrifice outlet. Additionally, I use 2-3 Crop Rotations (current MB is 2) so that I have 7 draws for a sacrifice effect. Last, I've been using Strangleroot Geist as an additional sacrifice target for the Tower. All of this combines to give me some pretty stable acceleration as long as I still keep in mind not losing to a Swords to Plowshares or a Wasteland.

On the Swords note, since I saw some discussion above. Vet should never be vulnerable to Swords. If you open on Therapy, you can cast Vet and flash it back without ever giving your opponent priority. Essentially, the same sequencing that stops Daze also stops StP.

Last, on Therapy... I actually prefer the openings where I can kill Vet without using Therapy because I like saving Therapy for the turn where I want to ensure something resolves. Being able to clear out a FoW for example in order to make sure your threat gets through is very powerful. The flashback is a lot less useful when trying to maintain board presence.

[Warden]

@Cringe:
I like the shell you have. I'd cut Hymn (double B is harsh on the mana) in favor of removal/enchantments.
That's 4 open slots.

I think the Enchantment-based lists need Toxic D in some capacity. Vets and Recs need to die to yield value. Let's go with 1 Toxic main. With the 3 remaining slots, we have cute options and more streamlined stuff.

-Courser (in the standard NF builds, doubles as enchantment here)
-Solitary Confinement as a way to hold the fort. Recursion loops with Witness
-R. Nightmare. See above for main loop
-Rest in Peace x1 in the SB. Possibly more depending upon the meta. Groves/Recs tutor for this
-Choke. *see above
-Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Strong finisher
-Keranos (UR god). Finisher, lots of CA
-Blood Moon. SB option

EDIT: I'd definitely run V. Stronghold to loop my few creatures

[Arianrhod]

I'm making a lot of controversial changes to Sneak for tomorrow's Mythic. I expect the turnout to be low due to the Easter weekend, which means it's a fairly low-key chance to try some ideas out while being in a still decently-sized room with a variety of decks and opponents.

[Luthiereisfun]

I'm making a lot of controversial changes to Sneak for tomorrow's Mythic. I expect the turnout to be low due to the Easter weekend, which means it's a fairly low-key chance to try some ideas out while being in a still decently-sized room with a variety of decks and opponents.

Taking out Thragtusk?

[Arianrhod]

Taking out Thragtusk?

I almost did, and then I second guessed myself into keeping it in. It may be a crutch, but goddamn if it isn't one of the best crutches every made. I seriously debated it and have come to the conclusion that both A: it's won me way too many games to cut it, and B: I'm just flat out uncomfortable with 0 lifegain in a Nic Fit deck.

[Arianrhod]

Here's what I'm doing:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Fierce Empath
1 Eternal Witness
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse

2 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay

3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sneak Attack

2 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Nissa, Vital Force

2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills

sb::
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pyroblast
1 To the Slaughter
2 Toxic Deluge

DISCLAIMER: I am testing things. The last list I posted from March's Mythic is the current "stable" list that I recommend for large-meta events (SCGs, etc). The changes I am about to explain are /not/ ones that I stand behind as of yet.

Here's a brief rationale of the changes. I will provide a report and summary of my opinions of the changes once I've actually played with them tomorrow.

I went into the changes knowing that I wanted to test out extra Trackers, and I wanted to test out what would happen if I tried the deck without PFire. PFire was kind of ass at Mythic last month -- I still think it's better in a most true representation of the overall meta, but it wasn't very good vs the specific decks I played against and the decks that I saw in the room in general.

Thrag initially came out to help make room for the Trackers. I also cut the 3rd Top for the 3rd Tracker, because with 3 Trackers I expect to draw enough cards to compensate for the loss of a Top (plus I expect to draw multiples of Top more often).

The 3 PFire slots became 2 Bolts and 1 Pulse. It is important to me that these three slots be efficient at picking off planeswalkers. I considered Dreadbore, but I think that the raw efficiency of Bolt pushes it past the "kill em all" nature of Dreadbore, as well as being able to go face for extra reach, which likely becomes more important as the extra two Trackers strengthen the beatdown side of the deck. This is why I opted out of Fatal Push, incidentally. Push does jack fuckall to planeswalkers, and it's very important to me as a pilot that Sneak be the best version of Nic Fit against planeswalkers, as planeswalker is a card type that I expect to see only increasingly more play as time passes, and Deed doesn't handle them.

At this point, I was still torn on Thragtusk, but decided that I really just flat fucking wanted it, for the reasons I briefly stated above while writing out my decklist. I examined the deck a couple of times and decided that the only reasonable cut was the 4th Sneak Attack, which is something that I've fairly staunchly defended. I look forward to seeing how the deck plays with 3 tomorrow to get some data on the 3 Sneak vs 4 Sneak debate. Admittedly, the extra 2 Trackers also helped make this decision.

As for the manabase, I had 3 open slots due to the Groves. I knew I wanted the 7th basic for sure. I was torn between Foothills 3 vs Taiga 2, and opted for the Foothills due to the extra Trackers. For the final slot, I was between Foothills 4, Taiga 2, or Tower 2. I opted for Tower 2 in order to increase the number of "broken" starts, which are better due to the 7th basic, but also which makes me feel slightly guilty about cutting a Sneak Attack. It is very possible that Taiga 2 is the actual correct choice here, but I want to try the second Tower, so I'm gonna do it.

Honey badgers, etc.

For the sideboard, I knew a couple of things that I wanted to change from last month. I've been missing a catch-all "big graveyard" answer for a while now, and Ooze is regrettably the best example of that type of card that we currently have. Sam had success with the card at Worcester, so I decided to give it another try.

I wanted to hedge slightly more against Delver and Stormchaser Mage while maintaining my Miracles count (actually I wanted one more miracles card, but more on that in a bit), and keeping an answer to Jace / TNN. Pryoblast seemed like the most reasonable choice here, although I only have room for a 1-of. I'm unwilling to cut the To the Slaughters entirely as the card has been bananas for me, but I am willing to hedge with a similar card that has slightly different applications in some matchups.

However, cutting a To the Slaughter makes my Lands matchup worse. Adding Ooze slightly improves it, but I wanted to use the Ooze slot as a flat addition to my previous Lands board, which meant I needed to make up an answer to Merit Lage somewhere. The only logical cut was the 3rd Surgical Extraction, which I've had my eye on for a little while now anyway. Losing a Surgical ensured that this slot was going to be for vs Merit Lage, vs combo, and ALSO my 8th slot for Miracles. The only card that checks every single one of those boxes is Pithing Needle. I've run Needle before to mixed results, and I look forward to trying it out.

Note: there is a decent chance that I audible overnight to this slot being the 4th Sneak Attack instead, as just improving the combo plan vs combo and Lands is highly relevant, and Sneak Attack as a card is very important in the Miracles matchup. It would also allow me to perhaps save my day if I realize a round or two in that I never should've cut the 4th from the maindeck, lol.

Anyway, that's a quick update on the things I'm trying tomorrow, and I look forward to giving my results when I get home tomorrow night :D

[Cringe]

@Cringe:
I like the shell you have. I'd cut Hymn (double B is harsh on the mana) in favor of removal/enchantments.
That's 4 open slots.

I think the Enchantment-based lists need Toxic D in some capacity. Vets and Recs need to die to yield value. Let's go with 1 Toxic main. With the 3 remaining slots, we have cute options and more streamlined stuff.

-Courser (in the standard NF builds, doubles as enchantment here)
-Solitary Confinement as a way to hold the fort. Recursion loops with Witness
-R. Nightmare. See above for main loop
-Rest in Peace x1 in the SB. Possibly more depending upon the meta. Groves/Recs tutor for this
-Choke. *see above
-Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Strong finisher
-Keranos (UR god). Finisher, lots of CA
-Blood Moon. SB option

EDIT: I'd definitely run V. Stronghold to loop my few creatures

Thanks for the input! Just tested against elves and BUG. I didn't ever find a good hand. Stabilized a few times and came back from low health. The big struggle here seems to be the opening hands I get. I can't seem to find good openers, probably due to big cmc cards through most of the deck. I tried GSZ but never really found them. I'll be for sure testing all of the cards you've mentioned. Didn't even hit me that deluge also hits my rector and explorers at the same time as a DRS. Thanks again!

[Megadeus]

I'm probably way late, but how did any testing for Eldritch Evolution go? It seems pretty sweet in a BUG shell with strix and Vet to sacrifice.