[Deck] Food Chain Combo

[Makaveli]

I'm sure it'll be good.... just not sure it's better than running the ponders and a playset of Ballistas.

Personally, i'd rather have seven maindeck cantrips so smooth out my land draw and help me find combo pieces. The deck is pretty well streamlined at the moment and I rarely find myself with nothing to do, or drawing redundant cards; sure there's times SDT would help but i just don't think pushing the deck towards being better in the mid-late game is the way to go.

Go and test a bunch and see if it gives an edge in some way i'm not seeing :)

I have had a lot of success just subbing out one Balista for a Trinket Mage. Gives you the advantage of more outs to get a Pithing Needle or piece of Graveyard hate post board too. The trade off of 3 vs 4 Ballista is pretty minimal.

[Alka]

I have had a lot of success just subbing out one Balista for a Trinket Mage. Gives you the advantage of more outs to get a Pithing Needle or piece of Graveyard hate post board too. The trade off of 3 vs 4 Ballista is pretty minimal.

Is spending your whole turn 3 to cast trinket mage then casting pithing needle/graffdigger's cage on turn 4 really that great against the majority of decks you're bringing those cards in?

[Makaveli]

Is spending your whole turn 3 to cast trinket mage then casting pithing needle/graffdigger's cage on turn 4 really that great against the majority of decks you're bringing those cards in?

I agree that counting on him to find your graveyard hate in decks you need it early against is not going to happen. But that isn't what Trinket mage is there for. You still have the same odds of having the hate card in your opening hand as you did without him being in your deck. He gives you one extra, slower, shot at drawing those cards.

Better question is probably "Is having an extra shot at finding your Pithing Needle after turn 2-3 worth the small trade off of subbing one Trinket mage in for one Ballastia?" In my playtesting results, I'm certain it is.

Look at it this way. There are a lot of times when being able to go get your Needle mid-game to deal with a resolved Jace, turn off a Sneak Attach, or to lock down the opponent's Top is very valuable. You are functioning like a control deck a lot of times so all games tend to go a bit longer. You have time to find answers to things.

Another added benefit of Trinket is he actually can attack, block and even start the chain if needed. There have been many games where I wanted to keep the chain in my hand until the turn I wanted to combo. You can sequence the Mage the turn before to get Ballista and then use him to start the chain after casting the food chain on the next turn if you don't have enough mana to start it on the same turn otherwise.

I'm also playing one EE in the board. He can grab that too. That card is a great answer to a lot of random decks in a format as big as Legacy.

Also you failed to mention that you can cast him turn two off DRS so it isn't always Turn 3/4.

[Kaono]

I think playing 3 ballista and 1-2 trinket mage is completely fine. I don't think the cards that mage searches up are impactful enough for the slots they use, but given playstyle differences it's not black or white.

The latest change I've been enjoying is cutting the 20th land for a single sylvan library. I have not had fun cutting ponder. Cantrips are so crucial to ending the game on the spot.

On a tangential note, I had an opponent cast Needle naming Food Chain vs me the other day, so I made sure to decay it for no reason before comboing off just to give my future fellow FC players that extra % :)

[Alka]

I agree that counting on him to find your graveyard hate in decks you need it early against is not going to happen. But that isn't what Trinket mage is there for. You still have the same odds of having the hate card in your opening hand as you did without him being in your deck. He gives you one extra, slower, shot at drawing those cards.

Better question is probably "Is having an extra shot at finding your Pithing Needle after turn 2-3 worth the small trade off of subbing one Trinket mage in for one Ballastia?" In my playtesting results, I'm certain it is.

Look at it this way. There are a lot of times when being able to go get your Needle mid-game to deal with a resolved Jace, turn off a Sneak Attach, or to lock down the opponent's Top is very valuable. You are functioning like a control deck a lot of times so all games tend to go a bit longer. You have time to find answers to things.

Another added benefit of Trinket is he actually can attack, block and even start the chain if needed. There have been many games where I wanted to keep the chain in my hand until the turn I wanted to combo. You can sequence the Mage the turn before to get Ballista and then use him to start the chain after casting the food chain on the next turn if you don't have enough mana to start it on the same turn otherwise.

I'm also playing one EE in the board. He can grab that too. That card is a great answer to a lot of random decks in a format as big as Legacy.

Also you failed to mention that you can cast him turn two off DRS so it isn't always Turn 3/4.

I'm not saying Trinket Mage is bad. Just wondering if that's what you want to do turn 3 and into turn 4. At the last SCG open food chain decks were being run with and without Trinket Mage. One deck with Trinket Mage even had Altar of the brood tech in the sideboard as an alternate win condition. There's still testing to be done with the card and the new Ballista build.

I didn't mention DRS because then you're relying on another card and obviously you can go a turn sooner if you have one.

The latest change I've been enjoying is cutting the 20th land for a single sylvan library. I have not had fun cutting ponder. Cantrips are so crucial to ending the game on the spot.

I've never run 20 lands in this deck, it seems like too many. I originally added a 4th ponder instead of land 20, but will probably try out sylvan library next time I play the deck. Library is a strong card and I always ran it in the old Empath/Emrakul build.

[J.Black]

I have had a lot of success just subbing out one Balista for a Trinket Mage. Gives you the advantage of more outs to get a Pithing Needle or piece of Graveyard hate post board too. The trade off of 3 vs 4 Ballista is pretty minimal.

Just went 2-1 at FNM doing exactly this - I'd lent my 4th ballista to someone and ran the trinket mage instead. Didn't draw it all night lol.

Altar of the brood is interesting... Food Chain is gaining in popularity which will lead to people running more hate if it continues to top8 events. having a second win con (and a win con that can't be needled) is a good plan. It can also randomly troll decks that try to manipulate the top of their library.

I'm still of the opinion that the trinket mage is too clunky right now however, that can all change as the meta evolves.

FNM:

Lost 1-2 to burn - no game lasted more than 4 turns and i was burned out the turn before I would have won game 3. Match up still feels awful but is burn really worth having a dedicated SB plan for?

Won 2-1 against ANT - we trade combos in the first 2 games. game 3 I play a T2 Leovold and it quickly becomes clear what a disgustlingly unfair card that is.

Won 2-0 against nicfit - My opponent reallllllly wanted to play nicfit tonight so we all lent him a bunch of barely playable garbage to put into the classic explorer-therapy shell. All we learnt here was that you really should side out veteran explorer when playing against Food Chain.

Has anyone devoted any brain-time to the mirror? I was thinking Llawan, Cephalid Empress could be interesting. I know scourge and ballista are colourless but locking out the griffins and strixes should mean you win the grind battle.

[Nekrataal]

... and Leovold

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[J.Black]

Yes, leovold is great but in a mirror my opponent is also running 2-3 copies :(

What I'm asking for is one-sided effects or weird tech to give one deck an advantage over the other.

[JackaBo]

I dont think i would dedicate cards to the mirror. I would however bring in combo hate cards (discard and extraction)

Edit: reasoning: Both our grindplan cancels each other out and the only thing to fear is the full combo (or a bad keep). Thus removing opponents Ballista should be the prime focus.

[Holmen]

Relic is awesome in mirror. Focus Decay on opposing chains and use relic to win the griffin-race. That is enough dedication for the mirror. Discard and misdirection is also fine IF you have them in board.

Yes, leovold is great but in a mirror my opponent is also running 2-3 copies :(

What I'm asking for is one-sided effects or weird tech to give one deck an advantage over the other.

[JackaBo]

Relic is awesome in mirror. Focus Decay on opposing chains and use relic to win the griffin-race. That is enough dedication for the mirror. Discard and misdirection is also fine IF you have them in board.

Yes relic or scooze is awesome!


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[Manipulato]

Hey all,

managed another 5-0 at my local store. This time I beated the following decks:

Round 1: Esper Deathblade 2:0

Round 2: Mono Black Pox 2:0

Round 3: MUD 2:1

Round 4: 4c Loam 2:1

Round 5: Eldrazi 2:1

This was my list for the event:

18 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
4 Walking Ballista
3 Misthollow Griffin
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Eternal Scourge

22 Spells
4 Food Chain
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will

4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Manipulate Fate

20 Lands
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest

SIDEBOARD:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Fatal Push
2 Pithing Needle

The pushes in the SB were bad and will be replaced with 2 Diabolic Edict, I expected more DnT & Elves for the day...
I knew there would be very few to no GY decks so 2 Surgical Extraction are enough.
Toxic Deluge because I wanted a hard sweeper vs Elves & DnT + thought that 2 Slivers decks could be there.

I won 90% of the games today via combo which surprised me a bit because other times it was more 50/50.

Clique was like always really good and useful. Ballista owned 3 creatures from the Deathblade side (Clique, SCM & Meddling Mage) and prevented his dudes from conecting with Jitte.

Man the deck plays out so much better OTP or with a T1 Shaman, it's insane. This was shown very clearly in the MUD & Eldrazi MU where both decks can setup broken T2/T3's.

This time I changed my sideboarding strategie vs Eldrazi and cutted 2 Ponder + 2 Leovold for 2 Vendilion Clique + 2 Fatal Push/Diabolic Edict just to survive the fast TKS opener. The winning had nothing to do with the new boarding strategie so I couldnt tell something new now, but Cavern did not show up in 3 games. One time I had FoW in hand and was not able to draw a blue pitch card for it when the eldrazi man played a big dude, 2nd time something like this happened.

After three tournaments I'm now 13-2 in rounds and 27-10 in games which I'm super happy about. Hopefully this will continue in Frankfurt at the end of the month ^^

[Manroe]

Lately I've been playing with a small change to my list. Granted I've got a pretty good grasp on my Meta.

I've been on 19 lands from the start and I've shaved one abrupt decay leaving me room for two thoughtseize main and when we really need discard out of the board I bring in three Hymn.

I've really had good luck with this sideboard plan lately. (lots of combo an GY decks around)

2 Toxic Deluge
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle

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[JackaBo]

Lately I've been playing with a small change to my list. Granted I've got a pretty good grasp on my Meta.

I've been on 19 lands from the start and I've shaved one abrupt decay leaving me room for two thoughtseize main and when we really need discard out of the board I bring in three Hymn.

I've really had good luck with this sideboard plan lately. (lots of combo an GY decks around)

2 Toxic Deluge
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Pithing Needle

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Ive been playing 2 thoughtseize main for quite a long time as it increases the game versus combo both pre and postboard and is versatile enough to matter in other match ups. In a infair meta this is a good suggestion.

I'm going to try the more common streamlined build for a bit as the meta is more fair now in my LGS.


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[.Ix]

On a tangential note, I had an opponent cast Needle naming Food Chain vs me the other day, so I made sure to decay it for no reason before comboing off just to give my future fellow FC players that extra % :)

That's one way to give back to the community!

[Lightless]

I played Food Chain this sunday in a 1k in Lucern. Finished second (split the finals to be honest), maybe you want to read the report

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ith-Food-Chain

[Makaveli]

I'm not saying Trinket Mage is bad. Just wondering if that's what you want to do turn 3 and into turn 4.

I guess my point was I am running one Trinket Mage in place of one Ballista. I don't know if it is a question of 'what you want to do turn 3 and into turn 4' because it would just be a Ballista, which itself is rarely great on turn 3 against most decks. So I don't think casting Ballista turn 3 is something you want to be doing that often either. This example is only to illustrate that there is very little draw back to including one Mage in place of one Ballista. I think the situational upside though is rather high in a lot of post SB games. Especially since if you are comboing off, Trinket in your hand is pretty much exactly the same as having the Ballista.

I won a GPT trial on Saturday. The trade-off was relevant exactly one time. Midgame vs RB Reanimator. We were both in topdeck mode. I drew the Trinket mage and grabbed by N-Spellbomb. That sealed the game as his next reanimation spell would have been useless. Otherwise it really had not impact on any of the games. I comboed with it in hand instead of Ballista twice.

[theMonster]

I started to test this deck again recently, and I've come to like the 3/1 Ballista/Mage split. Having another blue card to pitch to Force is relevant, and there have been several times where Mage's 3 CMC was important because it allowed me to exile it with Food Chain to start the loop. I've nabbed mid-game Pithing Needles and Relics which have won me games, too. I think 3/1 is a fine ratio. I wouldn't play more than one Mage, in my experience.

I've also been testing a singleton Fatal Push over the fourth Decay and a Scavenging Ooze (with an accompanying second Bayou instead of one fetch) over the fourth Strix. So far I've loved the former change but am unsure about the latter. A set of Decays in a deck with two basic Islands always felt off to me, so swapping one out for a cheaper removal spell gives me more outs to T1 Mom or Deathrite or other scary stuff. Plus it lowers the curve a little. The ScOoze has been incredible sometimes and a do-nothing durdler other times. Having another way to recur dead Griffins and nab key graveyard cards (especially with all the Snapcasters around) has won me games. But ScOoze isn't really a 2-drop because it incentivizes you to have up when it hits play. There have been a handful of times I've wished it were a Strix in the early game, but I think it's a much better topdeck and can be higher impact overall.

I wish I had a couple more T1 plays. Anyone try four Ponders and 19 lands? Right now I have Sylvan Library in my 20th land slot, and I'm unsure about it.

Thanks, y'all!

[JackaBo]

I don't see anything wrong with a one off trinket mage given that you run relevant artifacts in sideboard. In most matchups I'd rather draw Ballista directly but in some matchups, i.e. Reanimator, it's a dead card outside of combo and Trinket mage can shine if you survive the first few turns. I wouldnt go up to 2 though, since naturelly drawn Ballista can be that good.

Another relevant downside with mage is that Stifle can stop you from going off. That was an actual issue with both empath and emrakul that is solved with Ballista

[Manroe]

I started to test this deck again recently, and I've come to like the 3/1 Ballista/Mage split. Having another blue card to pitch to Force is relevant, and there have been several times where Mage's 3 CMC was important because it allowed me to exile it with Food Chain to start the loop. I've nabbed mid-game Pithing Needles and Relics which have won me games, too. I think 3/1 is a fine ratio. I wouldn't play more than one Mage, in my experience.

I've also been testing a singleton Fatal Push over the fourth Decay and a Scavenging Ooze (with an accompanying second Bayou instead of one fetch) over the fourth Strix. So far I've loved the former change but am unsure about the latter. A set of Decays in a deck with two basic Islands always felt off to me, so swapping one out for a cheaper removal spell gives me more outs to T1 Mom or Deathrite or other scary stuff. Plus it lowers the curve a little. The ScOoze has been incredible sometimes and a do-nothing durdler other times. Having another way to recur dead Griffins and nab key graveyard cards (especially with all the Snapcasters around) has won me games. But ScOoze isn't really a 2-drop because it incentivizes you to have up when it hits play. There have been a handful of times I've wished it were a Strix in the early game, but I think it's a much better topdeck and can be higher impact overall.

I wish I had a couple more T1 plays. Anyone try four Ponders and 19 lands? Right now I have Sylvan Library in my 20th land slot, and I'm unsure about it.

Thanks, y'all!

I've been thinking about a Birds of Paradise lately, but the 2x main board Thoughtseize have been good.

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