Serra Avatar vs. Progenitus* was just what I had on hand. I am not totally sold even that using the slot is correct. The only matchup I want it for is show n tell. Which isn't well represented in my meta. It turned out to be mostly miracles, BUG decks and d&t which I am fine with.
@Final Fortune. 4 was to many for sure. Going forward I am thinking maybe 2. I like having different options to fight hate. Surgical and deathrite are fine when they play one. The 2nd and 3rd are normally what do the most damage and it also depends on the targets. Against my miracles opponent he hit thug and troll leaving me with 6 dredgers left. I could see the argument more more dredgers or a greater density against surgical decks. The blue targets worked for me in the games where I want FOW.
Hi guys, I haven't been around for a while. Not a lot of innovative things seem to be going on (no offense! Rather says something about the card quality and how rigid the deck is), though I was wondering: how good does 4 Prized Amalgam
perform? I haven't played with them in the deck, but I feel it's a bit of a slow "get-to-winning-more" card. Would love to hear experiences.
you gotta read up on the thread.
-rob
I did, thanks. I don't get clear why it'd be better than nether shadow (it only starts coming back after you've found enablers (like nether shadow)), nor why it'd be a lot better than bridge. Given it's easier to remove bridge, bridges can give more manpower and give you fuel during your combo DR return, instead of at the end of the turn. Or am I missing something?
It's not run in leiu of nether shadow. Both are run. Play some games with it, you'll be impressed.
Also as a last mention, it helps your blue count for sb cards.
-rob
The card is insane, you just cut crap to add it and you're 7% more business and a turn faster.
Amalgam is the utter nuts. On your "fast" draws, often involving cycling Street Wraiths at the second main phase of your opponent's turn, Amalgam will come down accompanying any Narcomoebas you hit, essentially accelerating you one more creature for a Dread Return. When you're on the slow beatdown plan, Amalgam is also insane, dodging mid-combat Miracled Terminus and sticking around with his huge body against other fair matchups. If you've ever Dread Returned sacrificing Amalgams, you'll also know that it basically makes the Dread Return a freebie, since all the Amalgams re-trigger off the resurrected creature. Amalgam is also highly-synergistic with Flayer of the Hatebound. You no longer even need multiple Dread Returns to lethal your opponent - sometimes DR for Flayer, Therapy to Undying flayer and then EoT Bolt the opponent three times is enough to kill them.
All this, and we also have a sturdy blue count of 18-22 for Force of Will against combo post-board with Amalgam in the mix.
Seriously, run four. Daize, I think you're underestimating how much of Manaless has gotten a revolution since Shadows Over Innistrad. Amalgam has revolutionised the deck, giving it a incredibly potent new tool. It's what made me come back to the deck and respect its power.
Hey there folks,
After a year playing other decks, I've returned to Manaless Dredge in the last week, playing it in my LGS (2-2) and in the Catalan Legacy League this Saturday (60 players, I finished 19th, 3 wins 1 draw 2 losses). This time I'm playing with the blue SB, here's the list:
4 chancellor
4 therapy
4 ggt
4 stimp
4 thug
2 Shell
4 narco
4 prized
4 shadow
4 ichorid
2 rider
1 flayer
3 dreturn
4 probe
4 wraith
4 phantas
4 bridge
sb:
4 fow
2 disrupting
2 pharaoh
3 contagion
4 faerie
Here are some reflections (after 10 matchs played, so take it with a grain of salt):
* I hadn't played with Prized Amalgam yet, they were not released yet last time I played the deck. They are absolutely awesome, as ChemicalBurns say in the above post. Run four. Always.
* I've lost some games due to what it seemed absurd variance at first glance. Then I realized that I've been failing to chain dredgers much more than when I played with 16 dredgers. I'm missing the 3rd and 4th Shambling Shell much more that I expected.
* I hated Whirlpool Rider A LOT. I've not Dread Returned for them not a single time in twenty-some matches. 2 Riders + 3 DRs seems not to be enough to assure having them both in the GY to launch the combo. Plus, a lot of times I've found myself with only one or two cards in hand when I could DR Rider, so I would dredge just 1-2 cards, which I felt were not nearly enough.
* Related to last point: I feel much more reliable just to DR directly Flayer and kill the opponent with CIP Amalgam/Ichorid/Shadow triggers. DR Flayer and then DR Grave-Troll, without Riders, has been enough for me the (few) times I tried to combo.
* The Pharaohs has been awesome too, stopping the opponent to attack during several turns.
* The blue plan has not really worked for me, but I feel that 4 FoWs and 4 Shoal may improve it. I'll try it next tournaments.
All of this sumarize into:
* Next games I'll remove the Riders and re-sleeve 3rd and 4th Shambling Shells.
* I'll play 4 FoWs and 4 Shoals side, and I'll just play 2 Faerie Macabre instead of 4 (I think Reanimator is so difficult that I prefer not to spend too much sideboard space to try to win it).
Anyway, I have a question for you guys: How do you sideboard to make room for 4 FoWs, 4 Shoals and the rest of sideboard? I'm siding out the combo pieces (3 DR + Flayer) and 1 of each Phantasmagorian, Nether Shadow, Ichorid and Shell, but I'm not sold on it. Yesterday it came to me that, if I'm siding in FoWs+Shoals, I could side out Chancellors (they play a similar role IMO), but I haven't tried it yet.
Sorry for my poor English and thanks for reading!
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
This is what I do when I side in the blue package: +4 FoW, +4 Shoal, -3 DR, -1 Flayer, -4 Chancellor. I keep the Riders as they are good fodder for FoW and ideal for pitching to Shoal to hit Priest or RiP. You could keep the Chancellors and cut a single Icho, shell, Phanta & Shadow if you expect a lot of BUG to hit their T1 DRS.Originally Posted by gRR!!
That makes a lot of sense. Anyway, I plan to cut Riders, but I'll play the full playset of Shoals, so the total number of blue cards (and its mana costs) will remain the same. I'll let you know how it works!
Colorless is the new blue
http://ooh---shiny.blogspot.com
[premature handrubbing b/c who knows how the meta will shake out and how much grave hate there'll be] Yes, yes, move away from yourdecks and Rest in Peace/Containment Priest after the ban list update, excellent, excellent. Your Deathrite Shamans will keep you safe. [/handrubbing]
Isn't a Phantasmagorian dumping multiple dredgers into your yard one of the best defenses against DRS, along with Street Wraith?
Hi all,
I just got a 5-0 (10-0 in games) using Manaless Dredge, and so I wanted to chime in with the list.
First of all, I went super budget. Sorry Legacy forum. The thing I found out though is that I want to capitalize on Contagion and Sickening Shoal instead of Force of Will and Disrupting Shoal. I also thought Faerie Macabre and Street Wraith were just fine against the typical graveyard hate card I saw: Surgical Extraction.
My matches were
2-0 UR Delver
2-0 Leovold Sultai
2-0 neo Miracles
2-0 neo Miracles
2-0 Bant
These all seemed to be the favored matchups. I know I didn't play against combo, and that combo is very popular at the moment.
On a blind Cabal Therapy vs. ANT, what do you name?
I'm glad to be stepping into Legacy. I have been eagerly awaiting the banning of Top!
Awesome finish!
I'm also on the non-blue version. I think the rise of Surgical Extraction is great for us, since we can beat it.
Against ANT, you can make them discard their Infernal Tutors - anything else will just be recast with Past in Flames. Faerie Macabres can help exile win-cons/tutors while they are comboing as well. And Mindbreak Trap.
I'm pretty sold on the Blue sideboard being the best option, but I don't actually own Force of Wills so I like to muck around with other stuff.
I've done this before, and it's terrible, but I feel it coming on again. I always want there to be some way of sideboarding into something that can function through/despite/around a Rest in Peace. I want to be able to bring in some lands and play a motley crew of beaters until I draw a nature's claim/reverent silence. The last time I tried was before Prized Amalgam was printed, so things have changed slightly.
If I run a build that uses Dryad Arbor main to accelerate into Dread Return, I can have 4 lands already in the deck. I could perhaps squeeze a Dakmor Salvage or 2 in as well.
No Spy, of course, and no need for Blue stuff, so I can be reanimating either Griselbrand or Chancellor of the Annex in addition to GGT and the combo. I have also considered a grindy version that doesn't have targets beyond the GGTs and Flayer.
SB:
4 Deathrite Shaman - Exile to Ichorid, pitch to Unmask, feed Grave Troll, produce mana, add to the Bad Man Plan.
4 Nature's Claim - Get off the Bad Man Plan and back to Dredging
2 Underground Sea - Need blue to cast Narcos and Amalgams (and Riders/Drakes?)
2 Tropical Island - Same, or these could be fetches? or just 4 Mana Confluence? Urborg to make Street Wraith unblockable?
3 Dakmor Salvage - Easier to board in more dredgers, can be retrieved after early dredging to sandbag for later.
I'm certain this is awful, I just can't get the idea out of my head. I'm going to test it a bit (I'll post a list) Maybe that will squash the idea :)
On the flip side tho' I think the absence of Miracles is going to increase the number of Deathrite Shamans in the meta and give Storm a chance, so we might need to take extra precautions against Elves and faster decks now.[premature handrubbing b/c who knows how the meta will shake out and how much grave hate there'll be] Yes, yes, move away from your
Isn't a Phantasmagorian dumping multiple dredgers into your yard one of the best defenses against DRS, along with Street Wraith?
DRS isn't that much of a problem, but fast combo decks are.
Lots of things to consider, but I think we are in really good shape. As long as we can fight through Surgical we should be okay, since the deck can usually ignore other things like DRS etc. I think the rise of combo is a little of an issue for us, and moving to eight blue card sideboard is important.
Generally when boarding in blue sideboard vs. combo (which is where they truly shine), I trim a DR, cut Flayer, cut all/most Shadows, trim an Ickie, trim Bridge, trim Phantas and trim Shell. You want to try and trim your slow creatures and just be a very good beatdown/disruption deck clocking the opponent continuously, shredding their hand and then holding countermagic. I find DR Chancellor is usually more than enough against most unfair decks, though there is arguments otherwise based on matchup (eg., vs Turbo Depths, vs. Lands, you need to kill on the spot).
Interesting that Rider was so medium; I always find him fine just to combo when needed. Just understand your role in the matchup, know if you need to combo fast and hold enough cards in hand - otherwise you can actually just sit back and rely on the beatdown. I also find you can keep chaining Riders (via Therapy > DR rider again) if you need to dig deeper into your deck for the kill.
Other matchups where I board in FoW (eg. D&T) get a little trickier in terms of what to shave.
Where can i find a good sideboard guide for manaless dredge?
meaning:
what and how mush do i board out etc.
against the common match ups.
do i cut dredgers or bridges or dreadreturn and other combo peaces etc?
what do board in is often way easier thän knowing what and how mush to board out.
for sideboard tips i think you can find them on previous pages ^^
in general shave DR and targets
it also depends a lot of your main and side (fow md or in side etc)
It would be rly helpful if someone could give me some sideboarding examples for recent dredge lists.
I would be realy greatful to have, lets say 3,sideboarding examples aginst the popular decks
point is i need kinda a cheat sheet in a form like this:
against delver:
- 2 qwe
- 1 asd
- 1 yxc
-----
+ 2 tzu
+ 3 ghj
As a new maneless dredge player a starting point (for sideboarding) is most important to improve my self.
Decklists (inculding good sideboards) are easy to find, but it is realy difficuld to find some clues HOW to sideboard (what are my commen targets to board out
and few mu examples)
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