Have you tried Nahiri at all? She's been fantastic for me. More digging, can't be Decay'd, and removed almost any permanent that annoys us.Originally Posted by Wanderlust
Yes, i think if you're running Hope of Ghirapur, you probably want Academy Ruins. Otherwise... doesn't seem necessary.
Basic island was usually good for me when our meta was infested with Burn, but it hasn't been as much lately. And I haven't been playing the deck. ;)
And yeah, we tested a 1 of Nahiri a while back. 1-2 seems cool in a list with Brainstorm, but not sure if it's better than Swords to Plowshares due to the problems that Swords answers that Wanderlust mentions.
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
Anyone else test this Japanese guys list that's been on two of the this week in legacy articles on goldfish?
-rob
Lots of chatter about the new red hate bear in Amonkhet. Harsh Mentor, 1R 2/2, opponents take 2 damage each time they activate a non mana ability on any permanent other than a plainswalker. While this appears to hit most Legacy decks (fetches, Tops, Wastelands, etc) it looks like a real fisting for Bomberman. Oh, it's also a Recruitable Human....
Anyone try Spire of Industry?
BRING BACK MANA BURN!
Harsh Mentor is very interesting in terms of how it affects this deck, since as you mention, we can run it and tutor for it ourselves. However, if it leads to an uptick in Burn in the meta, that could be problematic. Note that it does NOT deal us damage when we activate Circle of Protection: Red (since it doesn't trigger on enchantments), so at least we still have that going for us as a board plan. In the end, I think it will turn out to be about as annoying for us as Eidolon of the Great Revel - ie., annoying, but just another creature to have to deal with (which fortunately this deck is good at doing). There are actually important cases where Eidolon actually deals us more damage than Harsh Mentor: imagine you are trying to kill either of them and you only have a Trinket Mage to do it - the simplest solution is to tutor up Pyrite Spellbomb. We would take 4 damage to make this play if we are killing an Eidolon, but on 2 damage if it's Harsh Mentor. Also, if we are Swordsing Harsh Mentor, it doesn't deal us any damage at all.
Engineered Explosives @2 just got better against burn as well.
What land(s) would it replace and is the damage worth it?
How do you all side board for some basic matches? Not exact numbers, more like if you trim on parts of the combo, when you bring in the enlightened tutors, etc. Just curious on people's mindsets.
I suppose I'm only considering it because I only have 3 caverns
BRING BACK MANA BURN!
E tutors only come in against decks that are weak to one of the silver bullets it can find. I never bring it in against "fair" decks.
Manic Vandal comes in often as a hedge against anything I think could be running Null Rod, sometimes as a 61st card (tutor target, so I think that's fine to do).
Death and Taxes - our main is already really strong against them, but I make room for Manic Vandal, Pithing Needle, Karakas. No shaving the combo.
Miracles - obviously war Priest of Thune comes in. Some creature removal comes out. I leave all the creatures in to try to overload their removal and maximize the powerhouse that Cavern of Souls is against Counterbalance. Since the games go so long usually, fine to trim some spellbombs since we will naturally draw them in the course of a game. I've been toying with bringing in Chalice here. (Always important not to overextended into Terminus, obviously.)
RUG Delver - Meekstone and Chalice of the Void come in. Always tough to decide what to cut - it's a feel thing I guess.
Grixis Delver, BUG Delver, Shardless BUG - sometimes I make no changes, although Null Rod is a concern, so Manic Vandal as a 61st card if I need to hedge. Pithing Needle can come in to name Deathrite, too, although I don't always go that route.
UR Delver - Cop: Red comes in.
Storm, Reanimator, Belcher - all the E tutors come in, plus the relevant hate for their strategy. I often shave on spellbombs specifically and the combo more generally here - since we aren't faster than them, often these games are more about establishing a disruptive permanent as fast as possible and riding beatdown to the win rather than maximizing our own combo.
Burn - it's all about E Tutor into C:oP Red. Pyrite Spellbombs all stay in to answer Eidolon. I usually trim on the "flex slots", and maybe an Auriok Salvagers and a Trinket Mage.
Eldrazi - E tutors come in here, since Ensnaring Bridge and Meekstone are fantastic against them; Manic Vandal comes in as well. I actually think boarding out Brainstorm may be correct in the builds running it to make room for the E. Tutors. (War Priest comes in if we think they run Leyline of the Void.) I try not to mess with the combo too much - sometimes they play Chalice on the wrong number; sometimes they don't draw the right disruption at all.
Elves - we definitely leave in the whole combo here. This is a pure race - our goal is to combo off really fast and kill creatures on sight to slow them down as much as possible. I don't think E. Tutors are right here since none of our silver bullets are that great against them and they can easily find Reclamation Sage anyways for, say, Ensnaring Bridge. Grafdigger's Cage comes in though, of course.
There are plenty of other decks, obviously, but I've got to run for now.
I got Top 4 in a 97 person tournament for a Time Walk yesterday. Deck felt amazing. Here is the list and a quick summary of matches:
// Lands
1 Ancient Den
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
1 Great Furnace
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 Auriok Salvagers
3 Imperial Recruiter
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista
// Instants
4 Brainstorm
// Sorceries
1 Devastation Tide
// Artifacts
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Æther Spellbomb
// Planeswalkers
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 1 Manic Vandal
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 1 Sphere of Law
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 War Priest of Thune
Round 1: 4C Control
Win game 1 with a Mentor and the Combo. Win game 2 after he turn 1 thoughtseize/surgical LED. Just bear beats.
1-0
Round 2: Miracles
Lose game 1 to a big entreat. Win game 2 when he has a Top, Counterbalance, JTMS, and FoW in hand. I play top, he draws with top to counter. I resolve LED, cavern in a Salvager, use the ability with 2 mana available, he forces, I do it again and win. Game 3 he keeps a lose hand loses quickly.
2-0
Round 3: Reanimator
Lose game 1 to a turn 1 Tidespout Tyrant. Bring in a bunch of hate and combo quickly with a Crypt on board. Game 3 he draws 14 with Griselbrand before I Karakas it. Untap and slam a chalice on 1. He's able to get a Chancellor in play, but I have 4 to play Ensaring Bridge. He can never remove bridge and I Ballista him for the final 3 damage.
3-0
Round 4: Burn
He counts to 20 by turn 3 both games.
3-1
Round 5: Grixis Delver
This match is very easy I think. Unless they have Therapy, it isn't much of an issue. Take in 2 games.
4-1
Round 6: Grixis Delver
Take a grindy game 1 thanks to my tutors chumping an Angler while I set up the combo. Game 2 I ultimate Nahiri for a Manic Vandal to pop Null Rod. Then cast the Salvager and combo off.
5-1
Round 7: Miracles
Intentional draw since I am locked as the highest seeded 15 pointer.
5-1-1
Top 8: Miracles (Gerard Fabiano)
He is running a Nahiri and new Emrakul. After a grindy game 1 he is able to ultimate Nahiri. Game 2 he taps out for a Meddling Mage (naming recruiter). I cavern in a Salvager and after infinite mana I show how I can draw my deck with SDT + EE. Draw the Ballista and kill him. G3 he keep a loose 1 lander. I resolve a Chalice on 1 and a Defense Grid. Show how I make infinite mana after he taps out for a Jace with Grid protecting me.
Top 4: Miracles
Same guy from swiss. We have an hour long game 1 that he wins with 10 cards in his library. G2 I win after he taps out for a Mentor. I cavern in Salvager and ultimate Nahiri for a Trinket Mage to combo off. Game 3 he has a Mentor with counterspell backup and 2 tops. He kills me quickly.
Ended up with $325 credit for a $40 entry. Top 2 split for $950 (feels bad man).
Overall deck felt nice. I feel like I want to cut any cards specifically for burn. The matchup is so brutal, I feel like we should sure up the more popular matches. If you have any question on choices feel free to ask. There was a big crowd watching my matches, mostly out of curiosity. They absolutely loved it. It is very resilient to so much hate, but requires delicate piloting. I just want to say I love this deck and thanks for everyone's input in this thread making the deck optimal.
What else top8'd?
1 Bomberman
1 Burn
1 White Eldrazi
1 Dead Guy Ale
1 Storm
3 Miracles
Nicely done, sir! Congratulations!
How did Defense Grid work out for you? And Staticaster? And Sphere over CoP:Red?
BRING BACK MANA BURN!
Thanks!
Defense Grid was fantastic. It is a must-force card. Otherwise we just combo off with no worry of removal, surgical, etc.
Staticaster was great against elemental tokens, Pyromancer, unflipped Delver.
Sphere over CoP:Red was a choice since Eidolon doesn't hit it when I cast it and I don't have to leave mana up each turn. Either way I think the burn match up is near unwinnable.
Congrats on the fantastic result!
Based on what you faced, it looks like you metagamed the flex slots really well. Nahiri, in particular, looks great given the field you were up against. How did you like that main deck Pithing Needle? Any Devastation Tide anecdotes?
Completely agree on this point.
I'm not a huge fan of Izzet Staticaster (as stated earlier in the thread) since it mostly only helps matchups that are good already (such as Grixis Delver, which you state yourself is "very easy," and I agree.) Otherwise I really like your list!
Thanks! I think Nahiri is very good against a vast majority of decks. I won 100% of games where she resolved. Pithing Needle is card I am fond of. So many cards we can interact with. Staticaster is also good against Infect and Elves which I happened not to face. I think I am going to cut the Devastation Tide and a Mentor for two STP. In the board think I may cut a Sphere for a Meddling Mage and Meekstone for a Peacekeeper. Another card with all these silly blue decks that can help is Grand Abolisher. I am really trying to tune this for Vegas.
Last edited by itrytostorm; 04-21-2017 at 06:25 AM.
Congrats! Were you in on the 4x Basilica plan? That seems like the new hotness as a kill condition, no spellbombs needed.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
My list is posted above, but here is my current build. Small variations.
// Lands
1 Ancient Den
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
4 Flooded Strand
1 Great Furnace
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Island
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 Auriok Salvagers
3 Imperial Recruiter
1 Monastery Mentor
3 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista
// Instants
4 Brainstorm
2 Swords to Plowshares
// Artifacts
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Æther Spellbomb
// Planeswalkers
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Defense Grid
SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Grand Abolisher
SB: 1 Manic Vandal
SB: 1 Meekstone
SB: 1 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Peacekeeper
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 War Priest of Thune
Last edited by itrytostorm; 04-24-2017 at 12:02 PM.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ent-2017-04-24
Top got banned. What do we do? Is it time for Thirst for Knowledge?
try the BW or UW builds that the japanese guy made up with all the baubles.
-rob
I'm very sad right now. Top was the heart and soul of this deck.
Basically the whole fast mana engine that Top enabled - cracking LEDs and then flipping top to cast stuff; and turning on Mox Opals - is dead. Engineered Explosives is now much worse as it doesn't draw our deck anymore.
It's possible other builds of Bomberman can be playable, but they are a different deck.
RIP the most fun deck I've ever played
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