No one should be happy about Top.

[infiniteJ]

Any miracles players who did not see this coming or who claimed that people should've adapted are in denial about the power level of their deck. A clue should've been how many players dedicated to the format have been putting down their decks to pick up miracles over the past year. One can argue that brainstorm, terminus, counterbalance etc should've been axed, and that's fine, but I'm happy to see top go for the same reason it was banned in modern. And anyone who says that this was the only viable blue control deck is lying to themselves- recently bug control and 4cc, and in the past, stoneblade decks. Miracles being the best control deck meant that any other deck that wanted to go long had to play abrupt decay, which was just leading to the nonsense of everyone splashing it (and even decks looking to win quick were splashing it like reanimator and storm and omnitell).

[Dice_Box]

Well clearly just sell all of your non-BUG cards to fund the trip, no point in having them apparently.

Fuck, how would I play Lands then?

[Goin Aggro]

I'm not happy about top. I think CounterTop was a fine piece to have in the format, but I'm ok with nerfing miracles.

However, if you want to nerf miracles, I think the right hit is Terminus. Then, if you flood the board, Miracles is going to have to at least spend 4 mana to verdict or plow snap plow something v. being able to clear it at instant speed whenever they want. Keep the classic control shell intact while drastically lowering power level.

[TsumiBand]

I just wanna know if I can go back to 8blastKirdApe.dec

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Fuck, how would I play Lands then?

Look in this world of Deathrite Shaman, Leovolds and Greedy mana bases, why would you?

You can't P. Fire a TNN

[Machinus]

So like you did for the following two Statements:

Yes, I did. The burden is on the pro-ban side, but regardless, I did provide evidence in this thread.

[Lord Seth]

Any miracles players who did not see this coming or who claimed that people should've adapted are in denial about the power level of their deck.

You may be right about the adaptation part, but why should they have seen this coming? Wizards of the Coast did nothing about it in the several past years it was dominating, so why should anyone have expected they'd do anything now?

[Ellomdian]

I know soooo many players who expressed a renewed interested in Legacy. They are all excited to play again and explore this new, open format.

These the same players who bitched about Brainstorm being a neigh-defining part of the format for years before they got to complain about Terminus being good because of Top? Or Delver being OP? Or TNN being broken and unhealthy? Because while I am fine taking wins off people trying to force NicFitShittyMaverickBadJund.dec, the Complain-about-stuff-on-the-internet-brigade is annoying, and they've been finding excuses not to play Legacy ever since their pet deck couldn't reliably generate wins anymore.

[Hanni]

These the same players who bitched about Brainstorm being a neigh-defining part of the format for years before they got to complain about Terminus being good because of Top? Or Delver being OP? Or TNN being broken and unhealthy? Because while I am fine taking wins off people trying to force NicFitShittyMaverickBadJund.dec, the Complain-about-stuff-on-the-internet-brigade is annoying, and they've been finding excuses not to play Legacy ever since their pet deck couldn't reliably generate wins anymore.

People have always complained on the internet. And there will always be a best deck. In 2006, people were screaming for Lackey or Vial bans. In 2008, it was Tarmogoyf. Next month, it will be Deathrite Shaman.

[danyul]

These the same players who bitched about Brainstorm being a neigh-defining part of the format for years before they got to complain about Terminus being good because of Top? Or Delver being OP? Or TNN being broken and unhealthy? Because while I am fine taking wins off people trying to force NicFitShittyMaverickBadJund.dec, the Complain-about-stuff-on-the-internet-brigade is annoying, and they've been finding excuses not to play Legacy ever since their pet deck couldn't reliably generate wins anymore.

Lol dude you are projecting ALOT. There will be higher attendance numbers and overall less grumbling. It's gonna be good for the format. Calm down. You're complaining on the internet RIGHT NOW.

[Dice_Box]

Look in this world of Deathrite Shaman, Leovolds and Greedy mana bases, why would you?

You can't P. Fire a TNN

Shit. What am I going to do? Perhaps I should look into this card I am hearing of, um... Engine Explosion? I am told it came from Smugglers Copter, after it blew up in Standard and then got nuked.

In all seriousness though. It's been a very odd night. This happened, then I stopped past the eternal flame on my way home for Anzac day. It's a strange mix of feelings. Top was a high, then Bagpipes and prayers to remind me there is more to life than just Magic. Not that the twins don't do enough of that.

[UnderwaterGuy]

People have always complained on the internet. And there will always be a best deck. In 2006, people were screaming for Lackey or Vial bans. In 2008, it was Tarmogoyf. Next month, it will be Deathrite Shaman.

The problem is that wotc listened this time. None of those cards that people used to bitch about actually got banned but now bitching works.

[tescrin]

I find it odd anyone believes that BUG will remain as dominant in the new field. I expect a small resurgence of Burn, a large one of Elves, and expect Storm to have a hayday, especially TES variants who are no longer stuck playing ANT due to omni-present miracles. Reanimator and Sneakshow will be back in coming months too if Storm does well!

We will hopefully see legacy become a psuedo-rotating format again where decks flow in and out of favor as the meta re-develops.


Interesting days ahead.

[Hanni]

I find it odd anyone believes that BUG will remain as dominant in the new field. I expect a small resurgence of Burn, a large one of Elves, and expect Storm to have a hayday, especially TES variants who are no longer stuck playing ANT due to omni-present miracles. Reanimator and Sneakshow will be back in coming months too if Storm does well!

We will hopefully see legacy become a psuedo-rotating format again where decks flow in and out of favor as the meta re-develops.


Interesting days ahead.

I don't agree with the combo summer bit. I think we are headed back to an over-saturation of Delver, which is a fairly hostile meta for combo.

[Mantis]

I rejoice this ban.

It was clear that Miracles is the best deck in the format. I felt almost forced into playing the deck, even though I strongly dislike it, or quitting the format. It really seemed impossible to design a deck with a reasonable matchup against both Miracles and the rest of the field. The banning of Top opens up new possibilities so I look forward to watching how the metagame develops!

Feel sorry for those who have spent much time acquiring the deck and mastering it. Although Im sure the skill you have developed by playing will come in useful in other aspects of the game.

[LOLWut]

The problem is that wotc listened this time. None of those cards that people used to bitch about actually got banned but now bitching works.

It's less clear to me. Maybe they listened to mass bitching. Maybe they listened to the clamorous voices of influential people. Maybe they listened to results of big tournaments. And, I'm sure the other banned cards provoked much bitching before the ban, and had similar lack of clarity regarding the cause of the ban, mass bitching, or otherwise. To my knowledge, mass bitching has never been cited as the motivator.

[Teluin]

You may be right about the adaptation part, but why should they have seen this coming? Wizards of the Coast did nothing about it in the several past years it was dominating, so why should anyone have expected they'd do anything now?

I was suspicious when Helene Bergeot posted that picture of the Ban Sensei's Top sign outside WotC.

[Machinus]

I rejoice this ban.

It was clear that Miracles is the best deck in the format. I felt almost forced into playing the deck, even though I strongly dislike it, or quitting the format. It really seemed impossible to design a deck with a reasonable matchup against both Miracles and the rest of the field. The banning of Top opens up new possibilities so I look forward to watching how the metagame develops!

Feel sorry for those who have spent much time acquiring the deck and mastering it. Although Im sure the skill you have developed by playing will come in useful in other aspects of the game.

This is a sincere sentiment. But it's not true that you could not design a deck to perform well in a metagame with Miracles, and it's certainly not true that people were pressured to play the deck. There are 5-6 "tier 1" decks that consistently do well at the largest tournaments, which except for the whining about Brainstorm and Sensei's Divining Top, usually led to praise for diversity in Legacy. SCG tournaments especially had a long run of diverse top8s in this period when Miracles was supposedly crushing everyone and breaking the format. Also, the percentage of Miracles players has not dramatically changed along with this hysterical complaining about how powerful the deck is. For the period in which Miracles has been a seriously played deck in tournaments, it has not shown any rise in popularity that you would see if it was significantly better than any other deck. Well that is a major problem for any theory that the deck is overpowered.

The fact is that Delver of Secrets has dominated Legacy more, and for longer, than any other deck you can complain about right now. But, because it is a creature, and goes through the attack step, and has cool "flavor", it's what MagicTM is supposed to look like according to WotC. It seems that the whiners and complainers want to stay as far away as possible from any objective analysis of this problem, because that would lead to absurd conclusions like getting rid of Delver of Secrets. It's easier to give Sensei's Divining Top a mysterious, hidden power that cannot be explained by looking at tournament data, field fractions, finishes, or any other legitimate evidence.

Anyone rejoicing in this stupid, stupid decision by WotC is just short-sighted. There are no standards for banning cards, now. This same process can easily happen to any other card if there are enough incompetent players willing to engage in mob tactics and excessive whining to change the format. It doesn't matter if you liked Miracles or not -- this is not what you should want for Legacy.

[Crimhead]

Shit. What am I going to do? Perhaps I should look into this card I am hearing of, um... Engine Explosion? I am told it came from Smugglers Copter, after it blew up in Standard and then got nuked.

I'll be bringing back Ports and will have fun keeping them at >3 mana.

[Parcher]

CREAM.jpg

Wizards is sorry. Please accept this small token to alleviate any butthurt.