[Article] Deathrite Is Next

[ramanujan]

Put me in the "Nope" opinion.

Creatures, which are so darn vulnerable, are very rarely the subject of bans in Legacy. DRS is great, but I think it is way down the list of cards that could get banned.

Specifically, I would put the following 12 cards ahead of DRS.

Brainstorm
Ponder
Fetchlands

[hymnyou]

Hope the community flips to trying to release prisoners rather than witch hunting. It's seems a little premature to start pointing fingers.
Really it's a load of f'ing crap that Mindtwist/Earthcraft/Goblin Recruiter - any or all of them, didnt get released.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Hope the community flips to trying to release prisoners rather than witch hunting. It's seems a little premature to start pointing fingers.
Really it's a load of f'ing crap that Mindtwist/Earthcraft/Goblin Recruiter - any or all of them, didnt get released.

I'm for this. Instead of killing Miracles it would have been great to just give other decks some of those very powerful spells. Give the non-blue players their banned cards back (and then maybe give blue players Mana Drain please)

[Noctalor]

I'm for this. Instead of killing Miracles it would have been great to just give other decks some of those very powerful spells. Give the non-blue players their banned cards back (and then maybe give blue players Mana Drain please)

None of those spells could have done much.

Legacy is the format of card selection, miracle was the king of card selection.
The only way to brute force a less cantrippy deck into the meta is to give it something actually insane, we are talking about desire/bargain level, not a 1/2 that moves the stack of creatures you already had on the bottom of your library back on top.

Still with no miracles around I doubt that the good old sick cards will see the light again, "bad ones" will but recruiter could be too good for example, we just have no idea what is going to happen, we havent played this game for 5 years.

[lavafrogg]

I have to disagree, DRS is a creature and is infinitely more interactive than top+balance, it also doesn't protect itself and hide from removal.

At the end of the day he is just a really good one drop that is dependent on the graveyard, not ban worthy in legacy.

[hymnyou]

None of those spells could have done much.

Right, they all suck- but it's weak that they didn't release any prisoners of war in exchange for the formats Lieutenant Commander, since they are all basically Cadets and Officers in Legacy's current state. Before going after another, I think at least 3 soldiers should be released back to the camps. If it wouldn't do anything, then just do it.

[Noctalor]

Right, they all suck- but it's weak that they didn't release any prisoners of war in exchange for the formats Lieutenant Commander, since they are all basically Cadets and Officers in Legacy's current state. Before going after another, I think at least 3 soldiers should be released back to the camps. If it wouldn't do anything, then just do it.

Surely it would be fun, but we already have the biggest meta shake since delve/survival, maybe it's not the right time to throw more toys around, we already have plenty of "new" old stuff to play with.

[Purple Blood]

I really like the idea of an official "Watch List". I'm sure most of us will be able to guess 80% of the list without knowing it but extra communication on these things can only be a good thing.

Interesting to see that Huang thinks Chalice decks will suffer. If there's a rise in Delver and other mid-range decks one would assume that Chalice / Bloodmoon is would be nice to combat those decks.

[wcm8]

I agree with others who've compared DRS to Brainstorm. True, it's ubiquitous in decks that play Black/Green and have a creature-centric strategy, but it enables multiple types of strategies, even if there is a fair amount of overlap in terms of card selection. For example, BUG Delver and BUG Cascade share a LOT of card choices, but the two decks play out differently and have a not-irrelevant number of different strengths and weaknesses. And obviously they're significantly different from Deathblade, Elves, Jund, etc.

DRS increases meaningful interaction, especially against obnoxious graveyard decks that otherwise would require a ton of sideboard space. So it also functions as a sort of pre-emptive measure against potentially broken strategies.

Like Brainstorm, DRS would be ban-worthy if the justification was based on concentration %. But the two cards are likely to be safe from the banhammer because they are played in different sorts of decks. At this point, DRS is kind of like a pillar of the format, along the same lines like cards such as Brainstorm, Force of Will, Daze, Wasteland, and Ponder.

SDT was played in more decks besides UWr Miracles, but none of those decks were arguably Tier 0/1 strategies or dominated tournaments for multiple years.

I think rather than banning DRS, they should design another 1-mana creature that's similarly powerful but instead of being , it could perhaps be .

[Lormador]

Surely it would be fun, but we already have the biggest meta shake since delve/survival, maybe it's not the right time to throw more toys around, we already have plenty of "new" old stuff to play with.

Oh come on, don't you want to see somebody putting Mind Twist into a Maverick deck and fueling it with Gaea's Cradle? Let Timmy have some fun!

[tescrin]

To be honest, i just was hoping to see Mind Twist unbanned, SDT being banned was like a chair-flipping "whoa" moment.


I think the other bit about DRS that makes him ubiquitous is that he suppresses grave-based cards, which are basically "too good." Delve, Goose, Loam, Reanimator, Dredge, etc..

They all survive the format with him in it, but they are nerfed a bit; while he is also vulnerable to grave hate himself. Getting him RiP'd is pretty bad F.E. And he is normally next to Gurmag, Goyf, recursion, or other grave-cards. I've lost plenty of midrange games to D&T players who spam RiPs just because it doubles as mana disruption when your deck is reliant on a grave-based manafixer.

I think it's weird they gave mono-black a true mana-dork at a good price, but the fact he hates on grave-strats is probably a net boon to the format.

Though, while he's in basically every deck I make, I don't care which way he goes. I think the article is just flame-bait and a "You're not my dad!" lashing out at reality where the writer believes he'll get back at the legacy community by triggering DRS-players. Good luck doing that.

[Brael]

I think rather than banning DRS, they should design another 1-mana creature that's similarly powerful but instead of being , it could perhaps be .

I don't think this would do anything. The main reason people throw DRS in decks is because it's a good 4c mana fixer. He makes it easy to make weak manabases that are held together by the card. If DRS were WR, they would still do the exact same thing, playing Esper+X except instead of green to activate the lifegain, they would splash red to activate the damage. It would essentially still be the same deck.

The sequence would be:
T1 - Fetch, Tundra, WRS

T2 - Brainstorm, Fetch, tap for mana, Badlands, Baleful Strix

or

T2 - Wasteland (blow something up), Tundra, tap for mana, Baleful Strix

Honestly though, DRS does good things for the format. As much as I dislike the ridiculous decks like Czech Pile which are just poorly made piles of good cards, tied together by a strong manadork it's a very good thing for the format to have MB'able hate for the graveyard that's available to practically everything.

[Purple Blood]

I don't think this would do anything. The main reason people throw DRS in decks is because it's a good 4c mana fixer. He makes it easy to make weak manabases that are held together by the card. If DRS were WR, they would still do the exact same thing, playing Esper+X except instead of green to activate the lifegain, they would splash red to activate the damage. It would essentially still be the same deck.

The sequence would be:
T1 - Fetch, Tundra, WRS

T2 - Brainstorm, Fetch, tap for mana, Badlands, Baleful Strix

or

T2 - Wasteland (blow something up), Tundra, tap for mana, Baleful Strix

Honestly though, DRS does good things for the format. As much as I dislike the ridiculous decks like Czech Pile which are just poorly made piles of good cards, tied together by a strong manadork it's a very good thing for the format to have MB'able hate for the graveyard that's available to practically everything.

It wouldn't have to fix mana. Something like this would be cool:

Boros Wizard (R/W) 1/2

(T) deal one damage to a creature/player or (and?) prevent one damage to a creature/player
(R) (T) exile an instant or sorcery card in GY draw a card then discard a card
(W) (T) exile a creature or land card in GY tap target nonland permanent (or maybe just a creature if that's too strong; or alternatively, target creature cannot attack or block this turn)

---

I really wish they made this card it's kind of busted (so is DRS) but it helps R/W be more viable.

[wizard_of_gore]

I think rather than banning DRS, they should design another 1-mana creature that's similarly powerful but instead of being , it could perhaps be .

Figure of destiny!!!!

[Megadeus]

It wouldn't have to fix mana. Something like this would be cool:

Boros Wizard (R/W) 1/2

(T) deal one damage to a creature/player or (and?) prevent one damage to a creature/player
(R) (T) exile an instant or sorcery card in GY draw a card then discard a card
(W) (T) exile a creature or land card in GY tap target nonland permanent (or maybe just a creature if that's too strong; or alternatively, target creature cannot attack or block this turn)

---

I really wish they made this card it's kind of busted (so is DRS) but it helps R/W be more viable.

A Legacy playable tapper would be sick as fuck. I mean I've tried out the Thornscape Apprentice in Maverick who is pretty sick as a Green Sun target, especially against Show and Tell. But I mean with all of those apprentice style cards none of them are actually playable. I think the key to Deathrite is that unless there's something like RIP out, he's always live. Ramping early, killing late. You need a card in that similar vein.

[Purple Blood]

A Legacy playable tapper would be sick as fuck. I mean I've tried out the Thornscape Apprentice in Maverick who is pretty sick as a Green Sun target, especially against Show and Tell. But I mean with all of those apprentice style cards none of them are actually playable. I think the key to Deathrite is that unless there's something like RIP out, he's always live. Ramping early, killing late. You need a card in that similar vein.

This guy would be a bit different and I tried to make it always relevant. The red ability can filter cards (and feeds himself). The white ability can be used offensively and defensively. And then the colorless ability is universally applicable and can be used offensively or defensively. Then again, Merfolk Looter meets Grim Lavamancer meets Thornscape Apprentice might be a bit too good.

It would be pretty cool for the meta if red/white was viable in the same vein as green/black.

[Emurian]

I don't see a DRS ban happen.

As noted by others, there are tons of ways to get rid of the creature, unlike top, which could protect itself by an activation and putting it on top of your deck. Artefact hate is also rarer then generic creature removal in the format.

The best way to tackle SDT was along the lines of Phyrexian Revoker [Which basicly only DnT wields] Pithing Needle [Relatively common SB card] or Null Rod.

DRS can be removed, or people go for the GY [RIP, Leyline of the Void] Most shells thats run DRS also run Goyf, Anglers next to them.

DRS can be ''countered'' by your own DRS. Granted, the one that has the DRS online first has an advantage, but it basicly turns into a stall: Im waiting for you to activate your DRS first so I can activate mine in response. (exception Elves in combination with Quirion Ranger tricks)

I don't find DRS broken, its just a VERY good magic card. There are plenty of other cards which I rather see go before DRS [Show and Tell grr)
I actually applaud the designer of DRS, they should give the dude another shot at designing more cards in different colours which are roughly at the same power level of DRS.

[Lord Seth]

DRS is first and foremost a mana dork.

Sure it does other things, but the decks listed in that article could replace them with hierarchs or birds without losing a significant amount of power.

Lolno. How easily did decks replace Deathrite Shaman with those cards in Modern when it was banned?

Saying you can replace Deathrite Shaman with Hierarchs or Birds is as goofy as saying that you can replace Green Sun's Zenith with Hierarchs or Birds.

[Brael]

Lolno. How easily did decks replace Deathrite Shaman with those cards in Modern when it was banned?

Saying you can replace Deathrite Shaman with Hierarchs or Birds is as goofy as saying that you can replace Green Sun's Zenith with Hierarchs or Birds.

The big one that I remember was Pod because I played it at the time. It was a straight swap, and the only real casualty was that the deck became 3 colors rather than splashing a fourth.

Jund however dropped mana acceleration entirely and went back to 3 colors rather than 4.

Overall I think that's the only real drawback of DRS, it's great as hate and acceleration. Pushing decks 4c is the one bad consequence.

[Zirath]

I think that the thing that's being overlooked here is the fact that Wizards (and more likely Hasbro since I'm guessing that sign showing up on social media was not something they were thrilled about) gave in to terrorism. There was a better ban to make in Counterbalance that didn't create a cascade effect in the short term. Despite that, the ban still opens up the possibility that if people make a spectacle of the situation, Wizards will feel compelled to make a move. This is a horrible precedent to set since it denies a conversation in the format's growth, which is how we end up with a format like Extended.

This ban was not based on and future bans will likely not be based on format health or what's fun. It's based on social pressure.