[Primer] R/G Lands

[Whitefaces]

Sounds like rock paper scissors to me. Combo > Lands > Delver > Combo. The deck needs to cleanly and reliably answer Deathrite, which may be a problem, but Deathrite decks have a hard time dealing with a high speed Marit Lage if you just ignore the little bugger.

Yeah, I agree with this assessment.

Ancient Tomb seems like a good SB option again too, and load up on spheres.

[Dice_Box]

Yeah, I agree with this assessment.

Ancient Tomb seems like a good SB option again too, and load up on spheres.

Was thinking that.

[DigitalPsycho]

We are going to play a role, like Dredge does.

I don’t know which prediction is worse that lands needs to evolve or that we are now on the same level as dredge.

I think the 'rock paper scissors' analogy is wrong. Because if Scissors starts with Deathrite Shaman and gimps Rock’s starting hand than there is no “true” balance in 'rock paper scissors'. Also the Leotard decks are in the mix as well.

[Skyl3lazer]

Played last night at a 4 round event

I was on 2x Manabond, 4x Depths, GQs, and a mainboard ancient tomb, and none of the field's matchups felt unwinnable. Big Red and High Tide were the roughest, but sideboard of 4x sphere and 2x CotV combied with a way more reliable t2/3 lage made them feel fine. I think we can adjust to be a bit faster to respond to a more combo heavy meta (we are a combo deck after all), and just have a sideboard that forces them to play our game.

I'm thinking I want to fit a Warping Wail or two into the SB for drs and various combo decks now. Right now I'm running

2x Tireless Tracker
4x Sphere
2x Chalice
2x Sweepers (heaven//earth will be mine when its legal I think, Kozi's return for now)
3x Enchantment/Artifact removal (Currently 1x Grip 1x Grudge 1x Back to Nature)
Bog
Karakas

I'm going to move the Bog back main, and probably cut to 1x Sweeper or 2x Ench/Artifact removal, and put two Warping Wail.

[Dice_Box]

I don’t know which prediction is worse that lands needs to evolve or that we are now on the same level as dredge.

You are reading what I am saying literally not as an example.

I think the 'rock paper scissors' analogy is wrong. Because if Scissors starts with Deathrite Shaman and gimps Rock’s starting hand than there is no “true” balance in 'rock paper scissors'. Also the Leotard decks are in the mix as well.

DRS is a speedbump, he is not a single card deck killer. Since we should have at least 5 ways to kill him (I have 8) I do not feel he is the worlds biggest issue. Personally I would rather face DRS over TNN or Prelate.

[supremePINEAPPLE]

@Sky13lazer I was playing a really similar build online yesterday (- karakas, - k-return, + 1 grip, + tomb in the side and second tranq main) and it felt pretty good. I do want the second k-return but two trackers felt good and I wanted all the rocks when playing against combo so cutting the 4th grip makes sense on paper. I'm still super-wary about doing that in RG though. Tomb didn't do much for me yesterday but I like having it as an option for now at least.

[alionamongstmen]

Hello, long time lurker finally decided to join to get in on this brave new world.

Im going to an 80 person tourny this weekend, thought Id share the list Im bringing:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
1 Manabond
1 Molten Vortex
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Life from the Loam
2 Punishing Fire
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

1 Chalice of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Golgari Charm
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Krosan Grip
1 Trinisphere
2 Thought-Knot Seer

Im open to thoughts & opinions, but I want to keep my cards close to my chest so to speak until after the tournament. Lets say we're playing for keeps :)

[djxstream]

Hello, long time lurker finally decided to join to get in on this brave new world.

Im going to an 80 person tourny this weekend, thought Id share the list Im bringing:

4 Mox Diamond
4 Crop Rotation
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
1 Manabond
1 Molten Vortex
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Life from the Loam
2 Punishing Fire
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Taiga
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

1 Chalice of the Void
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Collective Brutality
1 Golgari Charm
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Krosan Grip
1 Trinisphere
2 Thought-Knot Seer

Im open to thoughts & opinions, but I want to keep my cards close to my chest so to speak until after the tournament. Lets say we're playing for keeps :)

How has that mana config worked out for you with black mana? I'm on the black splash, but no groves, so I have more fetches to grab my single bayou (6 fetches vs your 4)

For the most part with the different configs I've played, if i'm playing Abrupt decay, I dont play Manabond. just my 2 cents on that.

Big fan of Collective Brutality! Man does it do wok vs burn, as well as being another way to get rid of DRS.

Reasoning for Golgari Charm over Toxic Deluge? How is Thougt-knot treating you, what do you bring it in for?

I'm interested to try your config, it looks solid, but I love my Tireless Trackers and Thoughtseizes too much.

Good luck.

[alionamongstmen]

How has that mana config worked out for you with black mana? I'm on the black splash, but no groves, so I have more fetches to grab my single bayou (6 fetches vs your 4)

Ive gotten a Decay stuck in hand once or twice but it's not a big deal. You can always recur fetches. At this point they're only MD for Blood Moon and Animate Dead, anything else I don't worry about.

For the most part with the different configs I've played, if i'm playing Abrupt decay, I dont play Manabond. just my 2 cents on that.

That's the common line of thought, yes. I find though that if I have Manabond in my opener with enough lands it doesn't matter what I'm discarding, I'm probably going to be on a different gameplan than Decay.

Reasoning for Golgari Charm over Toxic Deluge? How is Thougt-knot treating you, what do you bring it in for?


Charm is more broad, able to kill Enchantments and TNN. Deluge is definitely a better sweeper but the deck is cold to Moon, B2B, RIP, and Leyline.
TKS is just a solid disruptive creature. He comes out T2 more often than you'd think, exiles a card and puts a clock on the opponent.
Right now I don't worry bout Delver, Elves, Infect, Burn, BUG, Maverick, or Deathblade. All I care about is being able to beat Blood Moon stompy and fast combo.

[gigapatrick]

I think Lands is at a point where the deck evolves or probably dies.

I’m interested if other people feel the same about Lands right now.

With Miracles gone we lose an annoying match up that’s good, but we see an increase in combo decks. This Meta change is normal since in a “new” Meta it’s always best to be linear and fast. The answer to combo decks were always different Delver versions and we can be sure that going forward we will see Deathrite Shaman in these decks. At the same time to the increasing numbers of Combo and Delver Leotard decks will hit hard.

If my prediction is correct and the top decks in the Meta will be “mostly” Combo, Deathrite/leotard and Deathrite/Delver. Traditional Lands will have a hard time vs a Meta like that.
Because even if Delver versions stays a positive matchup the rest of the field is going to be devastating and then we are big on the ‘match up lottery’.

It is extremely unlikely that we will see new cards printed that upgrade slots in the mainboard of R/G Lands. So the question is can Lands evolve with the Meta or are will we fall behind?

I really don't understand this reaction. The banning of Top is what has gotten me interested in this deck again. Now that we don't have to warp our boards to try to beat Miracles (which is awesome, because no strategy ever made me feel that the matchup was in any way favorable), we can go back up to six or seven combo hate pieces and we can probably shave a K-Grip effect for a board sweeper to deal with Prelate and Leovold.

Now, I can't say for sure what the new meta will shape up to look like, but I don't think Combo somehow gets out of hand. Delver and other fair decks packing Force of Will should see a decent uptick now that they don't have to deal with Miracles, and these decks have good matchups against combo. Luckily for us, we have good matchups against them. I predict that we will have a solid position within the meta, as long as we streamline towards the combo, since this is the best way to beat the graveyard hate that abounds right now.

[Crimhead]

How do you guys feel about only 2x EE (with no Intuitions or T. Wests)?

Is this reasonable (I will probably run BRing if I go this way) or should I shell out for the (seemingly overpriced) 3rd copy?

[Chatto]

Which sweepers do we have in both Red and Green?

[Rampart]

Which sweepers do we have in both Red and Green?

Fire Spout and Savage Twister

[Skyl3lazer]

Fire Spout and Savage Twister

Also now Heaven//Earth, which kills delver on the front side and leovold/drs/etc on the back

[Chatto]

Fire Spout and Savage Twister

I like Firespout, thanks for the suggestion.

Also now Heaven//Earth, which kills delver on the front side and leovold/drs/etc on the back

We also have Rolling Earthquake and Anger of the Gods, but I don't like the cmc of both cards, especially the X-part.

It has to be a clean cut. While there are exceptions, 3 damage takes almost every creature down.

[Lormador]

I think Lands is at a point where the deck evolves or probably dies.

I’m interested if other people feel the same about Lands right now.

With Miracles gone we lose an annoying match up that’s good, but we see an increase in combo decks. This Meta change is normal since in a “new” Meta it’s always best to be linear and fast. The answer to combo decks were always different Delver versions and we can be sure that going forward we will see Deathrite Shaman in these decks. At the same time to the increasing numbers of Combo and Delver Leotard decks will hit hard.

If my prediction is correct and the top decks in the Meta will be “mostly” Combo, Deathrite/leotard and Deathrite/Delver. Traditional Lands will have a hard time vs a Meta like that.
Because even if Delver versions stays a positive matchup the rest of the field is going to be devastating and then we are big on the ‘match up lottery’.

It is extremely unlikely that we will see new cards printed that upgrade slots in the mainboard of R/G Lands. So the question is can Lands evolve with the Meta or are will we fall behind?

That's a little silly, especially if you look at the particular combo decks that are doing well. Some of them are ones that Lands struggles with (SnS, Storm) but there's a lot of stuff that needs the graveyard (and can hence have games stolen for Crop Rot G1) or is Elves... and Elves is a fine MU if you can land a Tabernacle. Dredge is even a good MU, almost comically so... the deck isn't popular, but it is combo.

Postboard, 5 rocks and a Tomb and those combo decks have work to do. SnS remains as a nasty predator, but that ain't going to change. So I think the deck is fine, with the blue EE version perfectly defensible as a choice (as it has merit against the Leovold/TNN family).

[Skyl3lazer]

I like Firespout, thanks for the suggestion.



We also have Rolling Earthquake and Anger of the Gods, but I don't like the cmc of both cards, especially the X-part.

It has to be a clean cut. While there are exceptions, 3 damage takes almost every creature down.

The big advantage here is that Earth can be cast from the GY, so you can dredge without fear of losing the sweeper.

[Chatto]

The big advantage here is that Earth can be cast from the GY, so you can dredge without fear of losing the sweeper.

True, but still... The castingcost is bugging me.

[Skuttlespike]

Any thoughts in Faerie Macabre in the board?

BR reanimator (specifically Tidespout Tyrant) is a problem for me and this gets around chancellor and works on turn 0. It can also save cards from being Surgical-ed in an uncounterable way. Also has corner case use against Past in Flames and Deathrite Shaman.

[Ingo]

Any thoughts in Faerie Macabre in the board?

BR reanimator (specifically Tidespout Tyrant) is a problem for me and this gets around chancellor and works on turn 0. It can also save cards from being Surgical-ed in an uncounterable way. Also has corner case use against Past in Flames and Deathrite Shaman.

Faerie Macabre is better against BR Reanimator, but only when you hold it in hand, which is neglectible as a one-of. As you'll usually gamble for such one-of cards, Chancellor isn't really an argument, and I prefer Surgical Extraction for such an effect (for example its great in the mirror, and I think we'll see a whole lot of Lands being played).