[Primer] R/G Lands

[Ciubulu]

I was looking at the new meta emerged from mkm series and there are 50% of easy to win mu's and 50% of fuc*ing combo decks...What about adding 4 more tutors g1 in the form of entomb? We should be faster than usual and fight combo with speed g1 and hate g2/g3... we also will have access to new tools for our sb like chains of Mephistopheles (a couple just to make the deck cheaper ) and deluge for leovold and tnn

[alionamongstmen]

A tutor is a bad topdeck? Interesting theory.

If your hand is light, that means you likely dont have loam, so gamble for loam and dont care if you discard it.

If your hand is heavy, that means it's likely padded with lands that you've loamed back and haven't played or it's fill of dead cards, in which case, you can turn gamble into any card you want with less fear of discarding it.

Im familiar with that much yes, just when testing I found that Id use loam for cycling lands and vortex food much of the time. So my hand would be pretty empty and when I cycled into a Gamble all I could find was another loam. Could be Im doing it wrong, my results were less than stellar.

I figure a good hand to be Mox or Exploration and some business and 6 shots at having loam felt pretty good. But I rarely want to just start dredging turn 2 as I could run the risk of dredging a Vortex or Decay. That's the risk of not running Punishing Fire I suppose.

I did manage to make some great boardstates with Crucible + Exploration + Vortex, where I either fetch, quarter, or wasteland, loam, feed them to vortex, then play them back out from the graveyard for next turn. Seems like the dream but it happens to some degree when you're drawing 2-3 extra cards a turn and dredging. I usually at some point would stumble upon Lage but I seem to do better when trying to lock the game up by destroying all their lands and killing all their creatures instead of going for a quick kill.

I believe I had 3 games where I won and my opponent didnt have a permanent in play.

[non-inflammable]

I found that Id use loam for cycling lands and vortex food much of the time. So my hand would be pretty empty....

if vortex gets you hell-bent faster: sea gate wreckage was suggested a while back when it was first spoiled.
i'd love to be drawing two cards per turn and not dredging important cards away.

[kravkenov]

I think the meta will still adapt, Legacy has a lot of inertia and everything move slowly. But I agree, combo decks will be more present than they was in the pre Sensei's Top ban area and Lands will have to adapt to stay competitive. The maindeck is already strong, good streamlined and can kill pretty fast. The focus should maybe more pointed on fast soft-lock piece instead of soft-control piece, and of course the sideboard should give us a good edge against Storm and Show-Tell which are IMO our futur main concern.

[alionamongstmen]

if vortex gets you hell-bent faster: sea gate wreckage was suggested a while back when it was first spoiled.
i'd love to be drawing two cards per turn and not dredging important cards away.

I forgot that card existed, might have to try it!

[Ingo]

I think the meta will still adapt, Legacy has a lot of inertia and everything move slowly. But I agree, combo decks will be more present than they was in the pre Sensei's Top ban area and Lands will have to adapt to stay competitive. The maindeck is already strong, good streamlined and can kill pretty fast. The focus should maybe more pointed on fast soft-lock piece instead of soft-control piece, and of course the sideboard should give us a good edge against Storm and Show-Tell which are IMO our futur main concern.

It’s probably normal there’s much combo now, with Legacy being unpredictable now a fast comboplan seems a good choice until the dust settles.

But was Miracles really that unfavorable for combo? I had the impression that especially fair decks were preyed upon by Miracles, as they gave Miracles more time to setup full control. If I think of ‘combopolice’, I rather think of Delver or D&T. So I don’t think there should be a direct link between no Miracles and more combo.

There could be a secondary link though, depending on which decks fill the Miracles-void. If it’s all decks with a bad combo-matchup (suddenly popping up because Terminus pushed them out), combo will come to prey on them. But if the gap gets filled with Delver-variants, we might see the opposite.

[kravkenov]

Miracle was playing somethings like 6-7 counters + 4 Counterbalance maindeck, and several Flusterstorm/Pyroblast in the sideboard, which is enough to keep combo in check. Now it's the turn of Delver deck to act as the combopolice. But yeah, fast Marit Lage is the best bet while the Legacy metagame still adapt.

My recent Top 4 with my 3 Thespian / 2 Depths configuration is a bit of luck as I dodged almost all ShowTell/Reanimator/Storm deck in my run to the Top 8. There a lucky Glacial Chasm against Burn give me my first Top 4, but clearly I should have run more Stage/Depths in this meta.

[Amfibolos]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the family as I have finished building the deck last Friday.
I have been playing against lands for a very long time so I knew in theory how to use it and decided to give it a try last Sunday in Mega GPT Las Vegas in Birmingham.

The list I played was:

1x Barbarian Ring
4x Crop Rotation
4x Dark Depths
4x Exploration
1x Forest
4x Gamble
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
4x Life from the Loam
1x Manabond
2x Maze of Ith
1x Molten Vortex
4x Mox Diamond
4x Punishing Fire
1x Riftstone Portal
4x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland

Sideboard:

2x Volcanic Fallout
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Krosan Grip
1x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Sphere of Resistance
3x Tireless Tracker


My final score was 5-3

1 round Turbo Depths 2-0
First game was quick as my opponent played Depths even though I had thepsian in play. I suspected that he can accelerate somehow but sill
I copied it at the end of his turn to which in response he crop rotated for thespian and did the same. But I had a silver bullet in the form of karakas.
I crop rotated for it and returen his Marit and went for lethal.
Second game was much longer as after I have established combo and tried to go off at the end of his turn he rotated for thespian and gained hos own as well.
In addition he alredy had played needle on karakas. So I have started destroying his manabase and kept basics in check with ports.
I played tracker and started cracking clues to dig for artifact hate. Finally I found gamble and went for ancient grudge wich got discarded so I just used flashback, then crop rotated for Karakas.

2 round Storm 2-1
I know how bad this match up is so i came prepared.
First game was quick on his side as he killed me turn 3.
I sided in all hate I could.
In game 2 I kept a hand with mox and sphere. That bought me some time and several turns later instead of dredging I top decked chalice and played it on 1 which won me the game.
Game three I found on my opening hand Chalice and sphere but no acceleration but kept it since even if he would have casted Duress I would still have something.
turned out he started with Ponder and Tormods Crypt. I played Chalice on 0 and in my second turn sphere which again won me the game.

3 round Infect 0-2
As I mentioned before I'm still new to the deck and I made bad choices in this match up.
1 game I got flooded by 5 creatures with infect.
2 game he was fast enough with help in the form of invigorate and become immense when I tried to burn his agent.

4 round Bug Delver 1-2
First game was quick as I established control with Wastelands and Molten Vortex. His delver didn't flip for 2 or 3 turns and when I got 4th mana source I went for the kill.
2 game was preety close. I kept good hand but he had answers and so my Mox got destroyed. Fires got extracted. Grove was already wasted. I was on 6 life after he attacked with flipped delver, then he played 2nd delver and passed turn. I had to create a Token and try to win but unfortunately he did as expected and used Shaman to go to 21 life and next turn his second delver flipped.
3 game he got divine draws and I quite the opposite. He got delver dearthrite Clique, Liliana, Surgicals, Wastelands, abrupts, everything he needed to keep me in check.

5 round Maverick 2-0
I started with a good hand with mox, loam, and tabernacle, wasteland, karakas, exploration, pFire.
I killed his Mother XD, and then wastelocked him.
Second game was preety much the same.

6 round Helm of Obedience Combo 0-1-1
First game I kept decent hand but he had better as he started with 3 leyline (including Void)
then crop rotated for a land that provides mana for each enchantment and played helm and killed me turn 3.
Second game I made a terrible mistake as I forgot to side in Trackers...
I kept him in check for a very long time but he managed to cast runed halo on marit Lage.
I had one last krosan somewhere and when I got gamble I made second grave mistake this game and gambled for it
without loaming first to get more cards on hand and of course grip got discarded and had no means of geting this win.

7 round Eldrazi 2-0
First game was very quick on my side. I kept his creatures in check with vortex and won in 5th or 6th round.
Second game was slower he played lots of hate which increased casting cost but my tracker bought lots of cards and
I kept his manabase in check which bought me time to get marit lage even though he was on 2 life already.

8 round Death & Taxes 1-1-0
First game was quick as he kept a good hand for his creatures but all volnurable to wasteland, which I had backed by Loam hence I wastelocked him and went for the kill
with marit after several turns.
Game two was also very long as he used swords on Marit. I Destroyed all his eqipments but he had 2 RIPs and 2 vials to keep future marit in check.
We went to extra turns and imagine that I went through 45 cards in the deck, had like 15 lands in play, Nissa with emblem and still I cound not find molten vortex and 2 remaining pFires and 3 trackers. Yeah...

I was 41st in the end. But I was very happy nonetheless. I know what I did wrong so now I have to rememeber it and keep practicing.
There are two more GPTs Las Vegas in May so keep your fingers crossd :D.

Cheers!

[jarvisyu]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the family as I have finished building the deck last Friday.
I have been playing against lands for a very long time so I knew in theory how to use it and decided to give it a try last Sunday in Mega GPT Las Vegas in Birmingham.

The list I played was:

1x Barbarian Ring
4x Crop Rotation
4x Dark Depths
4x Exploration
1x Forest
4x Gamble
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
4x Life from the Loam
1x Manabond
2x Maze of Ith
1x Molten Vortex
4x Mox Diamond
4x Punishing Fire
1x Riftstone Portal
4x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland

Sideboard:

2x Volcanic Fallout
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Krosan Grip
1x Nissa, Vital Force
4x Sphere of Resistance
3x Tireless Tracker


My final score was 5-3

1 round Turbo Depths 2-0
First game was quick as my opponent played Depths even though I had thepsian in play. I suspected that he can accelerate somehow but sill
I copied it at the end of his turn to which in response he crop rotated for thespian and did the same. But I had a silver bullet in the form of karakas.
I crop rotated for it and returen his Marit and went for lethal.
Second game was much longer as after I have established combo and tried to go off at the end of his turn he rotated for thespian and gained hos own as well.
In addition he alredy had played needle on karakas. So I have started destroying his manabase and kept basics in check with ports.
I played tracker and started cracking clues to dig for artifact hate. Finally I found gamble and went for ancient grudge wich got discarded so I just used flashback, then crop rotated for Karakas.

2 round Storm 2-1
I know how bad this match up is so i came prepared.
First game was quick on his side as he killed me turn 3.
I sided in all hate I could.
In game 2 I kept a hand with mox and sphere. That bought me some time and several turns later instead of dredging I top decked chalice and played it on 1 which won me the game.
Game three I found on my opening hand Chalice and sphere but no acceleration but kept it since even if he would have casted Duress I would still have something.
turned out he started with Ponder and Tormods Crypt. I played Chalice on 0 and in my second turn sphere which again won me the game.

3 round Infect 0-2
As I mentioned before I'm still new to the deck and I made bad choices in this match up.
1 game I got flooded by 5 creatures with infect.
2 game he was fast enough with help in the form of invigorate and become immense when I tried to burn his agent.

4 round Bug Delver 1-2
First game was quick as I established control with Wastelands and Molten Vortex. His delver didn't flip for 2 or 3 turns and when I got 4th mana source I went for the kill.
2 game was preety close. I kept good hand but he had answers and so my Mox got destroyed. Fires got extracted. Grove was already wasted. I was on 6 life after he attacked with flipped delver, then he played 2nd delver and passed turn. I had to create a Token and try to win but unfortunately he did as expected and used Shaman to go to 21 life and next turn his second delver flipped.
3 game he got divine draws and I quite the opposite. He got delver dearthrite Clique, Liliana, Surgicals, Wastelands, abrupts, everything he needed to keep me in check.

5 round Maverick 2-0
I started with a good hand with mox, loam, and tabernacle, wasteland, karakas, exploration, pFire.
I killed his Mother XD, and then wastelocked him.
Second game was preety much the same.

6 round Helm of Obedience Combo 0-1-1
First game I kept decent hand but he had better as he started with 3 leyline (including Void)
then crop rotated for a land that provides mana for each enchantment and played helm and killed me turn 3.
Second game I made a terrible mistake as I forgot to side in Trackers...
I kept him in check for a very long time but he managed to cast runed halo on marit Lage.
I had one last krosan somewhere and when I got gamble I made second grave mistake this game and gambled for it
without loaming first to get more cards on hand and of course grip got discarded and had no means of geting this win.

7 round Eldrazi 2-0
First game was very quick on my side. I kept his creatures in check with vortex and won in 5th or 6th round.
Second game was slower he played lots of hate which increased casting cost but my tracker bought lots of cards and
I kept his manabase in check which bought me time to get marit lage even though he was on 2 life already.

8 round Death & Taxes 1-1-0
First game was quick as he kept a good hand for his creatures but all volnurable to wasteland, which I had backed by Loam hence I wastelocked him and went for the kill
with marit after several turns.
Game two was also very long as he used swords on Marit. I Destroyed all his eqipments but he had 2 RIPs and 2 vials to keep future marit in check.
We went to extra turns and imagine that I went through 45 cards in the deck, had like 15 lands in play, Nissa with emblem and still I cound not find molten vortex and 2 remaining pFires and 3 trackers. Yeah...

I was 41st in the end. But I was very happy nonetheless. I know what I did wrong so now I have to rememeber it and keep practicing.
There are two more GPTs Las Vegas in May so keep your fingers crossd :D.

Cheers!

You can't Runed Halo 'Marit Lage'. It isn't a card.

[Chatto]

You can't Runed Halo 'Marit Lage'. It isn't a card.

Because it's a token? I was under the impression it was possible, because it's about the name.

[filln]

Because it's a token? I was under the impression it was possible, because it's about the name.

It's not because it's a token, but rather because it's not a card. It's similar to how you can't use Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker on a Clue token. If someday they released a card named "Clue", then you would be able to shut it (and the tokens) down.

[kravkenov]

Runed Halo

"You must choose the name of a card, not the name of a token. For example, you can't choose "Saproling" or "Voja." However, if a token happens to have the same name as a card (such as "Shapeshifter" or "Goldmeadow Harrier"), you can choose it."
2008-05-01, Gatherer Rulings

[Skyl3lazer]

My list for the Legacy Challenges in Richmond this weekend. Fast, with Tomb, 4x Depths, and double Manabond, and a lot of anti-combo in the side. Warping wail serves dual purpose in killing DRS and countering Show and Tell or Through the Breach sometimes. I'm going to stick with 2x sweepers and with Kozi's, just anticipating a bit of D&T, though it could be that Heaven//Earth is better for leovold at the moment. Also returning to Port to go along with the Spheres. Not sure if my numbers are perfect here, 3 ports seems weird, but I definitely want the rest of my cards Main, so we'll see.

[Cfetchcaviar]

Warping wail does not counter through the breach.

[Chatto]

It's not because it's a token, but rather because it's not a card. It's similar to how you can't use Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker on a Clue token. If someday they released a card named "Clue", then you would be able to shut it (and the tokens) down.

Runed Halo

"You must choose the name of a card, not the name of a token. For example, you can't choose "Saproling" or "Voja." However, if a token happens to have the same name as a card (such as "Shapeshifter" or "Goldmeadow Harrier"), you can choose it."
2008-05-01, Gatherer Rulings

Thank you for the clarification

On another note: so are we back on Ports again?

[Alexeezay]

With 2 Manabond I would definitely choose Ghost Quarter over Rishadan Port. You can out-waste people super quickly and it's gonna be more powerful than using a Port. Also, with Elves and Delver on the rise I like Ghost Quarter more. GQ can still do the job vs Combo, they play only 1 basic or 2 maximum of one type.
I've been liking a few Hull Breach recently as Disenchant effects in the Sideboard. Destroying Chalice + Leyline, Chalice + Blood Moon or Rest in Peace + Sword of Fire and Ice seems pretty good.

[Skyl3lazer]

Warping wail does not counter through the breach.

Huh, it is an instant isn't it. Well, Infernal Tutor / Show and Tell / whatever

[Skyl3lazer]

With 2 Manabond I would definitely choose Ghost Quarter over Rishadan Port. You can out-waste people super quickly and it's gonna be more powerful than using a Port. Also, with Elves and Delver on the rise I like Ghost Quarter more. GQ can still do the job vs Combo, they play only 1 basic or 2 maximum of one type.
I've been liking a few Hull Breach recently as Disenchant effects in the Sideboard. Destroying Chalice + Leyline, Chalice + Blood Moon or Rest in Peace + Sword of Fire and Ice seems pretty good.

The biggest issue w/ GQ in those matchups is that using a land drop on a turn to not take them down a mana can often mean you lose. The first 2-3 turns are the ones you have the most trouble surviving, and GQ plan doesn't start actually killing lands until #3 or 4 against those decks.

[Crimhead]

I was looking at the new meta emerged from mkm series and there are 50% of easy to win mu's and 50% of fuc*ing combo decks...

If those combo decks include a lot of Elves (good mu for us) and Storm (quite beatable) that might not be bad overall.

[Ingo]

If those combo decks include a lot of Elves (good mu for us) and Storm (quite beatable) that might not be bad overall.

Infect is favorable too, if you count it as a combodeck. Dredge as well, and it's more resilient to extraction than Reanimator so perhaps we'll see an uptick in that.
BR Reanimator is in my opinion also a less unfavorable matchup than UB Reanimator, because they often combo a Chancellor in play instead of Griselbrand, and chances are good you'll just maze him off. Whereas UB has the cantrips to almost always reanimate Griselbrand/Tidespout.