[Primer] Elves!

[Doneval]

I'm seeing a lot of Lands pop up in the local meta to combat all the mid-range decks around.

It's a pretty bad matchup for us right? What's our best plan against them, try to combo as soon as possible?

[Lord_of_Rivendell]

I'm seeing a lot of Lands pop up in the local meta to combat all the mid-range decks around.

It's a pretty bad matchup for us right? What's our best plan against them, try to combo as soon as possible?

I've noticed the same. Because I have never found an especially effective sideboard plan for Lands, I do exactly what you said: I focus on going off is quickly as possible.

[Ingo]

I've noticed the same. Because I have never found an especially effective sideboard plan for Lands, I do exactly what you said: I focus on going off is quickly as possible.

From a landsplayer's point of view, it's hard to beat NO for Elderscale Wurm, or Zenith for Scavenging Ooze (if he eats a dead Elf and gets out of Pfire's range). Comboing fast works too ofcourse, but these options help if you get into a grindy game.

[abombdiggity]

Elves won the legacy challenge with a pretty spicy list, running Ruric Thar SB alongside a maindeck Taiga. If he's on here, nice job! Ruric has always been right on the edge of playability and was a solid choice with all the storm running around online, although I wasn't a huge fan of only running 7 fetches when I splashed a 3rd color.

[henweigh]

Elves won the legacy challenge with a pretty spicy list, running Ruric Thar SB alongside a maindeck Taiga. If he's on here, nice job! Ruric has always been right on the edge of playability and was a solid choice with all the storm running around online, although I wasn't a huge fan of only running 7 fetches when I splashed a 3rd color.

Any links to this? Was there camera coverage or was it just reports? I'd appreciate anything you can share.

[danyul]

Any links to this? Was there camera coverage or was it just reports? I'd appreciate anything you can share.

Winning List:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/645088#paper

Top Decks:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tourname...0616514#online

[chewemy]

Winning List:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/645088#paper

Top Decks:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/tourname...0616514#online

It was elves vs maverick in the final : http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ier-2017-05-14

[tescrin]

I think I'd rather the winning list had 1-2 slots dedicated to Wolf-making dude and/or Chaos-Elves guy. I've been 2-0'ing Elves opp's with only big-finishers because I keep a bunch of disruption and beatdown with evasive dudes. If those opp's had had the midrange finishers I think they would've been able to recover and get me by sheer mana/dude advantage. Maybe gearing for midrange/delver battles is dumb, but from an outsiders' perspective I'm more scared of the incremental-advantage guys after the first big counterspell because we've entered the attrition phase most likely.

[henweigh]

I think I'd rather the winning list had 1-2 slots dedicated to Wolf-making dude and/or Chaos-Elves guy. I've been 2-0'ing Elves opp's with only big-finishers because I keep a bunch of disruption and beatdown with evasive dudes. If those opp's had had the midrange finishers I think they would've been able to recover and get me by sheer mana/dude advantage. Maybe gearing for midrange/delver battles is dumb, but from an outsiders' perspective I'm more scared of the incremental-advantage guys after the first big counterspell because we've entered the attrition phase most likely.

So, what does that look like specifically MB and SB?

[JankyDurdles]

Hey folks! I finally bit the bullet and purchased a Gaea's Cradle. I also have 4 Crop Rotation to go with it. Should I put all four of those in the maindeck? How would you change this list?

I'm thinking of shaving off 2 Birchlore Rangers and 1 Quirion Ranger. The Cradle and 1 Rotation replaced a forest and Priest of Titania.

Besides Bojuka Bog, are there any other lands worth sideboarding with Crop Rotation maindeck? I was looking at Blighted Fen myself, but that seems too costly. But a friend has Sneak and Show, and it's extremely difficult to beat for me.

Creature (29)
3x Birchlore Rangers
2x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Heritage Druid
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Wirewood Symbiote

Instant (1)
1x Crop Rotation

Land (19)
1x Dryad Arbor
8x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Overgrown Tomb
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills

Sorcery (11)
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Natural Order

[mistercakes]

Might not be the best out, but you can consider karakas.

[tescrin]

So, what does that look like specifically MB and SB?

I know Julien has many Top 8's, but this one is a list that seemed to work. The SB is during miracles, and the list is from a year ago.

Honestly were I to do a list it would probably just be this other one but swap the Nissa or a Birchlore for the Shaman of the Pack, and 1 Hoof for Wren's Run Packmaster (sp.)

Again, I am an outsider and that may be totally dumb; I just feel like I've been doing dumb blue-SFM decks for a year or two and hardly drop a game to Elves due to flyers + equips + Force. I let Glimpse resolve unless they have like.. 2 cards in hand and I try to Clique out NO's. Occasionally a Daze snips a greedy NO/Hoof/GSZ, but that's pretty rare for obvious reasons. My side usually has 1 Cage, 2x Priest, a revoker, another revoker or needle, and that's probably all that's relevant unless I'm bringing in weirdness like Canonist or ETutor. I'm perfectly happy to admit that maybe I've been lucky, but I was reminded the last couple weeks during 2-0'ing Elves a couple times that that probably shouldn't be happening.

Getting back on track, I'm curious why Chaos Elves ceased being a thing; because I assume there's a good reason.

[resum]

I know Julien has many Top 8's, but this one is a list that seemed to work. The SB is during miracles, and the list is from a year ago.

Honestly were I to do a list it would probably just be this other one but swap the Nissa or a Birchlore for the Shaman of the Pack, and 1 Hoof for Wren's Run Packmaster (sp.)

Again, I am an outsider and that may be totally dumb; I just feel like I've been doing dumb blue-SFM decks for a year or two and hardly drop a game to Elves due to flyers + equips + Force. I let Glimpse resolve unless they have like.. 2 cards in hand and I try to Clique out NO's. Occasionally a Daze snips a greedy NO/Hoof/GSZ, but that's pretty rare for obvious reasons. My side usually has 1 Cage, 2x Priest, a revoker, another revoker or needle, and that's probably all that's relevant unless I'm bringing in weirdness like Canonist or ETutor. I'm perfectly happy to admit that maybe I've been lucky, but I was reminded the last couple weeks during 2-0'ing Elves a couple times that that probably shouldn't be happening.

Getting back on track, I'm curious why Chaos Elves ceased being a thing; because I assume there's a good reason.

it was good against miracles, less good against the nonsense you face during a tournament.

elves shouldnt need anything outside of a some decays and maybe an ooze to beat the majority of blue decks unless the elves pilot is making some large strategic errors.

[comeback]

what's your current plan vs shardless with the 2toxic 3push 4discard list?

I'm use to win g1 but 4 decay and 1 ooze in seems to don-t be enough for g2 and g3

[abombdiggity]

what's your current plan vs shardless with the 2toxic 3push 4discard list?

I'm use to win g1 but 4 decay and 1 ooze in seems to don-t be enough for g2 and g3

Midrange BGx decks that play like shardless (non-delver, I typically board like this for BUg TNN), especially ones with Leovold, are matchups where you want to bring in Progenitus and resolve a natural order, hopefully with at least one creature to protect from any edict effects. Lilliana is ever-present (especially if they're on the play) and diabolic edict will often be better than a maindeck card of theirs and come in post-board. They can't really run too much countermagic because of shardless agent and glimpse is not at its best when they can pick at your mana dorks and hand.

[dte]

I do the exact contrary and opt for the grind, with ooze, leovold, packmaster and your symbiote draws.
Shardless is a very good MU, with your drs being better than theirs, and them being slow and devoid of evasive threats.

[abombdiggity]

I do the exact contrary and opt for the grind, with ooze, leovold, packmaster and your symbiote draws.
Shardless is a very good MU, with your drs being better than theirs, and them being slow and devoid of evasive threats.

Yeah, I'm currently off Leovold and Packmaster in the 75. Both are very good VS shardless, and if I had more of the "middle ground" I would lean on it further- I'm more prioritizing value glimpses and setting up with x/2s, but with their suite of answers and ability to deluge/charm i like the ability to just go over the top quickly with NO. Symbiote/Visionary will win over a long game as well compared to what they're doing- either way we're setting the tone of the matchup. We can grind better than they can or go over the top depending on how our hands line up, and neither approach is necessarily incorrect.

I also don't expect a lot of shardless moving forward, due to its rough ANT matchup and inability to go over the top of the other abrupt decay/deathrite decks.

[danyul]

what's your current plan vs shardless with the 2toxic 3push 4discard list?

I'm use to win g1 but 4 decay and 1 ooze in seems to don-t be enough for g2 and g3

What's your sample size? Are you asking after a single lost match? Or have you been consistently losing vs that deck? I consider Shardless a Bye. You can out-grind them. You can drop Prog on them super fast. They don't have the velocity or depth to keep up. Unless they have a ridiculous start like Push, Discard, Push, Discard, Deluge or something, you should be heavily favored.

[Julian23]

Sorry for not being very active on the thread lately but I've been super busy over the last couple of weeks. Here's something you'll hopefully be able to enjoy a lot:

MKM Frankfurt – Top8 in Legacy & Super Finals Winner

It's my almost 9,000 words report about my great weekend at MKM Frankfurt earlier this month. It's got tons of pictures, videos, puzzle-like game states and more. Definitely check it out!

[abombdiggity]

I still decide to play it über-safe by going for a direct with 10 Deathrite Shaman activations instead of attack damage as this plays around a potential Crop Rotation into Glacial Chasm

Love it. Being the best deathrite deck is huge in the current metagame.

Kind of an unrelated question- I jammed about 10 or so games with Bob to get him ready for your LPL match (which didn't help much- it's just worse against us than traditional delver decks- my only losses were when he flipped an early couple delvers and just did delver things, which is rough without wastelands). What struck me was siding in Progenitus- was that done because you knew he had no additional countermagic in his SB besides the single invasive surgery? It and hoof are pretty much both 1 hit kills due to the aggressive shockland use and while it's better on defense I was never in a position where that was necessary. Just curious- never really expect to have it come up very often but it's an interesting thought in terms of SB philosophy.