[Deck] Jund

[lavafrogg]

Another question.

Isn't lighting bolt better than Decay at this point? K.Command handles equipment better than decay(sans counters) and is also pretty much the reason I want to pick up the deck.... and bolt + fire or bolt + DRS is 5 to a creature or 5 to the dome.

[itaijan]

Chandra
Jund tends to play grindy games and she helps tremendously

Fatal push
Need to make a spot for atleast one i think

Mirrirs guile
Im going to start testing this bc chains of mephistopheles and i barley spend life for cards with sylvan library

Bloodbraid is getting worse
Im sure many will disagree bc its like the theme of the deck but im playing with only 1 now might go to 0

Still need decays bc delver has a lot of counter spells and having a removal you're not worried to b countered helps

[tescrin]

I do hope someday people find a successful brew of this deck with DRS + Goyf + Eidolon + Discard and maybe even some Grim Lavamen That would be a beautiful sight to me. Eidolon + discard would up the decks' game against Storm and similar, and Goyf would get bigger beats out of the deal.

[non-inflammable]

I ran this about 6 months ago and it was hilarious...

4 chains of mephistopheles
3 anvil of bogardan
4 deathrite shaman
3 punishing fire
1 kolaghan's command
3 abrupt decay
4 dark confidant
3 thoughtseize
1 inquisition of kozilek
3 hymn to tourach
2 mox diamond
1 cursed scroll
3 liliana of the veil
1 waste not
1 crucible of worlds
1 life from the loam

1 mountain
1 forest
2 swamp
3 verdant catacombs
2 bayou
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 wasteland
2 badlands
3 bloodstained mire
3 grove of the burnwillows
1 raging ravine

SB was a mess
1 virtue's ruin
1 reclamation sage
1 toxic deluge
1 maelstrom pulse
1 diabolic edict
2 surgical extraction
1 boil
1 red elemental blast
3 leyline of sanctity
3 leyline of the void


EDIT: I would drop waste not and the mox diamonds for maybe ensnaring bridge, grim lavamancer and scavenging ooze.

I do hope someday people find a successful brew of this deck with DRS + Goyf + Eidolon + Discard and maybe even some Grim Lavamen That would be a beautiful sight to me. Eidolon + discard would up the decks' game against Storm and similar, and Goyf would get bigger beats out of the deal.

with the printing of geier reach sanitarium, the anvil of bogardan can be dropped to 1 or maybe dropped completely.
re-work the mana base to support double red for eidolon and go all-in with 4 Goyfs. the discard suite can be your choice...

[hovercraft]

Currently running 2 K-Command maindeck and in a fair leaning meta they are unreal. BBE--->Kcommand or even Kcommand to return a BBE from the yard to play again are pure Jund value trains.

[CptHaddock]

Currently running 2 K-Command maindeck and in a fair leaning meta they are unreal. BBE--->Kcommand or even Kcommand to return a BBE from the yard to play again are pure Jund value trains.

KCommand is absolute GAS in this deck. It's always fun timewalking when you make your opponent discard on their draw step and bring back BBE. I think with command in the format you have enough removal spells to not run the punishing grove combo and just quadlaser decay, lili and push with 1/2 commands. Now to figure out how to not get dumpstered on by lands or combo decks.

[tescrin]

KCommand is absolute GAS in this deck. It's always fun timewalking when you make your opponent discard on their draw step and bring back BBE. I think with command in the format you have enough removal spells to not run the punishing grove combo and just quadlaser decay, lili and push with 1/2 commands. Now to figure out how to not get dumpstered on by lands or combo decks.

That's sort of why I brought up EotGR. I've always wanted to jam him in Jund. The nastiness of "I have a lily online, you're taking 2 a turn, and you can hit yourself for 2 and sack your dude" seems great, but equally EotGR is typically good against combo and so is Lily. Having the curve out of 5-6 1CC discard, 3-4 EotGR, and 2-3 LotV is a pretty reasonable anti-combo game; stacked with the clock of Goyf your only real issue is figuring out how to get the mana to work; which probably involves the unfortunate cutting of PFire. Thus, to mitigate this, Grims can come in, acting as further Lilianas, to allow the soft-lock of EotGR + spell-less removal to be that much more obnoxious.

Note: If Cabal Therapy were ran, one can sac their EotGR without taking damage if it mattered, and the deck could go totally weird with both Probe + Therapy (though that's probably a bit deep.)

My issue with that direction back when I tried it was Miracles and how decks survived with a Miracles meta. Maybe it's totally dumb, but something along those lines seems like it'd have legs against the durdley cantrippy 1-2 threats at a time decks that we see. Bolts + Goyf + EotGR suggests the deck can close games quick. I don't have my Lili's anymore, but maybe I can get a couple in a bit; as it looks like they're slowly falling in price.

[hovercraft]

KCommand is absolute GAS in this deck. It's always fun timewalking when you make your opponent discard on their draw step and bring back BBE. I think with command in the format you have enough removal spells to not run the punishing grove combo and just quadlaser decay, lili and push with 1/2 commands. Now to figure out how to not get dumpstered on by lands or combo decks.

I like pfire still, I just cut Abrupt down to 2 main with 2 K commands. I haven't played with Push yet, but I've been running 1 diabolic edict for fatty based combo decks, like Depths, Sns, or reanimator.

[meite]

Took a 5th place in 36 player tournament with Jund. I won the swiss but lost in the first round of top 8.

Main Deck:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
1 Terminate

4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize

2 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Swamp
4 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Duress
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pithing Needle
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge

R1 - Sneak Attack (2-0)
G1 - T2 Hymn, T3 Hymn, T4 Seize + Hymn. Game went long but opponent did not stand a chance after that amount of discard.
OUT: 3 bolt, 3 pfire, 2 decay, Kommand, Terminate - IN: 3 Duress, 2 Bridge, Golgari Charm, Needle, Pulse, 2 Surgical
G2 - Early discard makes him into topdeck mode quickly. He blood moons but I have basics out and draw Golgari Charm. I almost punt by letting him keep Emrakul in hand with Seize. Then he later on topdecks a Sneak Attack, luckily I have lethal on board and he has only one red mana source.

R2 - BUG Leovold (2-0)
G1 - I attack his mana aggressively by wastelanding and firing his deathrite shaman. He resolves a TNN, but I answer with Lili. He cant keep up when I resolve Hymns and Tarmogoyfs.
OUT: 4 Thoughtseize - IN: 2 REB, Deluge, Golgari Charm
G2 - I manage to charge his mana again, but the game goes a bit longer. I counter his TNN or Jace with REB I think.

R3 - Grixis Delver (2-1)
These were 3 extremely tight games, I can't remember exact details of each game. He takes the second game with a bold Fire covenant, by killing a 5/6 Tarmogoyf and Bob. I think that Tarmogoyf is very important in this matchup, since it ends up being bigger than Gurmag Angler.
OUT: 4 Hymn, 2 Seize - IN: Pulse, Golgari Charm, Loam , 2 REB, Deluge

R4 - Miracles (1-0-1)
G1 - Opponent FoWs the first hymn and lets the second one resolve. Game goes very long anyways, but Bobs and Sylvan library takes me there anyways.
OUT: 3 bolt, Terminate - IN: 2 REB, Pulse, Needle
G2 - This is also very long game. I think he surgicals my pfires at some point. I destroy Jace with REB. Round time ends and he has Monastery Mentor and some monks on the table, but I manage to chump block and gain life with Deathrite enough so that we draw the second game!

Hooray, my first ever top8 in a bigger tournament is now reality!

R5 - ID
R6 - ID

TOP8 - Grixis Delver (1-2) (same player I faced on R3)
G1 - Long battle where we wasteland each other, until I eventually manage to cut him out of black mana. He scoops after he realizes that he cant get anything to stick on the table due to my pfire lock.
OUT: 4 Hymn, 2 Seize - IN: Pulse, Golgari Charm, Loam , 2 REB, Deluge
G2 - I have opponent on 4 life with Deathrite Shaman on the table and his empty board. He manages to find bolt + angler with a Ponder while I dont draw removal.
G3 - I have a decent starting hand with 2 Goyfs and Bob. I bait lightning bolt with one 1/2 Goyf in hope to get Bob to stick on the table. He takes the bait and bolts the Goyf, BUT after that he surgicals my Goyfs. This made me quite threat light, but the game goes long anyways. It all ends when I get unlucky with card drawing and draw 3-4 lands in a row.

The list felt very good, but I am not sure if it would need something more against the Grixis Delver, I felt somewhat uncomfortable when playing against it.

[non-inflammable]

your only real issue is figuring out how to get the mana to work.

is your intent to always be able to cast Eidolon on turn two?
give up the grove combo with P-fire and maybe drop hymn to tourach?

just throwing this out there:


1 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountains
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
? Grim Lavamancer

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Thoughtseize

4 Liliana of the Veil

[tescrin]

Yeah something like that would be pretty dreamy. I'd maybe cut an EotGR and a Lily to ease the mana and then put consistency engines in place (Oath of Nissa, Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, you get the idea.) I found Oath of Nissa pretty good at being an almost-preordain/ponder when I was toying with 4 color decks and Lilys. Fixing the mana for Lily as an incidental was alright, and pumping Goyf always felt good. The fact it often found a dude or a land (or lily) and pushed away what I didn't want was pretty good.

I've played in the past with Lavaman + DRS + Lily and its not too bad. Lavaman + Lily clears boards, DRS + Lavaman is a good clock, and DRS + Lily.. well... we all love that.

______
Other notes:
Another thing I was mentioning to a P-Mav player was I have enjoyed a Pyro next to PFire and a 1-2 Loam. The repeat casting next to Pyro would fill the board while I nip'd their dudes or lands. Felt pretty good when it'd happen. Can't say if it's great or not as I only played it a little bit and it had the same miracles issues at the time.

[non-inflammable]

I'd maybe cut an EotGR and a Lily to ease the mana and then put consistency engines in place (Oath of Nissa, Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, you get the idea.) I found Oath of Nissa pretty good at being an almost-preordain/ponder when I was toying with 4 color decks and Lilys. Fixing the mana for Lily as an incidental was alright,

Well, don't stop now! i'm just spitballin' here but i do like your idea of using Eidolon.

I'd have to say Mirri's Guile gets the nod just due to Dark Confidant triggers...

I got it to 60 with 23 land, maybe someone else can massage a list?


1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountains
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Badlands
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

1 Mirri's Guile
1 Sylvan Library

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Thoughtseize

3 Liliana of the Veil

[tescrin]

I think I'd go:
-1 Badlands, +1 Taiga
-1 Mountain, -1 Abrupt Decay, +2 Collective Brutality
-1 Library, +1 Guile (increases 1-drops and keepable hands I think? Not a touchy point for me)

That gives 5 targeted discard (which is not too bad) and I think the life-gain on Brutality can be helpful in a deck that drains itself a lot. Brutality has been showing itself good in other decks for it's versatility and I imagine it's decent here where every card that can be good against combo and fair decks at the same time is necessary.

The deck still has 11 CA cards before counting Grim Lavamancer/Library, which is not too shabby; 5 answers to equipment before counting discard. Might be alright

[toffee]

Hi mates, yesterday I made top4 in my local tournment with 42 players.
This is the list I've played:

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Bloodbraid Elf

4 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library

4 Liliana of the Veil

SIDEBOARD
3 Duress
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Choke
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage

T1: BUG CONTROL 2-1 (1-0)
GAME 1: Deathrite and Liliana in the first two rounds...a Tarmogoyf closed the match.
GAME 2: I had a Dark Confidant and a Tarmogoyf onto the battlefield...2 Hymn to Tourach were resolved before. At his topdeck: Fatal Push, Snapcaster Mage, Leovold and Tombstalker....
GAME 3: Land Seize, Land Tourach, Land Liliana won the game.

SIDEBOARD: +1 Choke +1 Garruk Relentless | -2 Lightning Bolt

T2: MONO BLACK 1-2 (1-1)
GAME 1: He began with land - dark ritual - seize - tourach......Lost the match LOL
GAME 2: Ultimate of Liliana and 2 Tarmogoyf.
GAME 3: He began with land - seize...after that, land sinkhole and then Liliana, the last hope + Waste not....Lost the match.

SIDEBOARD: +3 Duress +1 Surgical Extraction | -2 Bloodbraid Elf -2 Lightning Bolt

T3: GRIXIS CONTROL 2-1 (2-1)
GAME 1: With 2 tourach resolved, We were at topdeck with a Sylvan Library onto my battlefield...I lost 8 damages with Liliana, Goyf and Deathrite and then Elf with Punishing Fire.
GAME 2: The recursion of Snapcaster + Strix + KCommand destroyed me.
GAME 3: Land Deathrite. His turn land deathrite...my turn wasteland on his land + Decay on his Deathrite. This advantage has led me to victory.

SIDEBOARD: +1 Choke +1 Garruk Relentless | -2 Lightning Bolt

T4: ELDRAZI 2-1 (3-1)
GAME 1: He began with Chalice of the Void and Thoughknot Seer...His race was too fast for me.
GAME 2: Land Deathrite + 2 Liliana of the Veil and Tourach...G3
GAME 3: Liliana of the Veil was the MVP in this game because of his Seer which can make me to draw 2 Tarmogoyf.

SIDEBOARD: +1 Diabolic Edict +1 Toxic Deluge | -2 Lightning Bolt

T5: INFECT 2-0 (4-1)
GAME 1: Seize + Tourach G2.
GAME 2: Deathrite + Wasta/Duress/Bolt + Tourach/Confidant. GG

SIDEBOARD: +3 Duress +1 Diabolic Edict +1 Pyroblast +1 Golgari Charm | -4 Liliana of the Veil -2 Bloodbraid Elf

T6: JUND 1-1 (4-1-1) I.D.

TOP8
MONOBLACK 2-0
GAME 1: His mulligan to 5 was too lucky for me.
GAME 2: My seize + tourach + 2 duress saved me about his missiles in the hand.

SIDEBOARD: +3 Duress +1 Surgical Extraction | -2 Bloodbraid Elf -2 Lightning Bolt

TOP4
DEATHBLADE 1-2
GAME 1: Land Deathrite and the same in opponent's turn. Wasteland on his land + Decay on his Deathrite. My tourach resolved brought home the victory.
GAME 2: He drew all Stoneforge and Nemesi in his deck.
GAME 3: We were at topdeck but I had a Confidant and a Goyf onto the battlefield...He managed to draw Push + Swords to Plowshares + Nemesi + Nemesi + Jitte. I drew only lands after this turn.....

So, considerations:
- Bloodbraid Elf: it is a strong card, but with his cascade ..... only shits =) Maybe I can cut all for another KCommand + Garruk Relentless...but I'm not sure about this choice...What do u think about BElf?
- Lightning Bolt: I believe this is useless now, because ever side out in every matchups. But I don't know what could be its replacement.
- 23 lands: perfect number with this list.
- Sylvan Library: MVP in every matchups....this is the 1 one perfect slot in every Jund List.
- Choke: I've ever had in my hand when it was sideboard in, but I prefered to have another card instead of. I don't know, maybe replaced with Chains of Mephistopheles or the 4th Duress or the 3th BElf (against control and other decks where I need card advantage).
- Punishing Fire: a Strong card and in addition the best target with the opponent's Surgical Extraction. I played 3 but I drew some times. But Jund needs this card.

- So, what do u think about my list?

[chalupa43087]

Toffee if you haven't been happy with Bloodbraid elf I have been having a lot of success with Grim Flayer as my BBE replacement. It's significantly cheaper and is really good at digging for answers vs Combo. It's also really nice that it tramples over True Name Nemesis regardless if delirium is enabled but if it is it can attack through it for three damage and also survive. It also is a really good buddy with dark confidant at setting up what you will reveal to him. Try it out!

[toffee]

Toffee if you haven't been happy with Bloodbraid elf I have been having a lot of success with Grim Flayer as my BBE replacement. It's significantly cheaper and is really good at digging for answers vs Combo. It's also really nice that it tramples over True Name Nemesis regardless if delirium is enabled but if it is it can attack through it for three damage and also survive. It also is a really good buddy with dark confidant at setting up what you will reveal to him. Try it out!

Hi mate, I've tested it a lot but it was never in delirium and in lategame I prefer again BElf for his haste and his 'card advantage'.
Maybe I'll test GFlayer again, but I'm not sure about it.

[chalupa43087]

I admittedly have come to a bit of a different build of Jund in the past few month than what I have seen that fits more of what I think makes the deck strong in a post miracles world Ex: I don't play Hymn at all and play 2 Abrupt Decays now and instead play Collective Brutality and a few Inquisition of Kozikek. The Brutality is really good as a middle ground card that can deal with creatures when that is relevant and also has utility vs combo when decays would otherwise be a completely dead card. The ability to escalate can help me fuel delirium for GFlayer and also is a good outlet to pitch punishing fires which GFlayer also finds for you when you discard it. BBE is a powerful card but the coin flip aspect to it has always bothered m and I like that I know exactly what I am getting every time with Flayer and because it comes down a turn sooner is also better vs Combo decks and again can actually attack through a Leovold or a True Name Nemesis which BBE cannot do making its haste sometimes a meaningless text a lot of times.

[hovercraft]

I still love BBE in Jund, the value train is too fun and can take back a game where you are behind. I only have 1 Goyf, but I have been using Flayer in some of my Goyf-slots and he is a great alternative.

I also still run 2 Bolts over Fatal Pushes, as I do like Bolt as part of our "clock". I went 5-1 in a recent local Legacy League , beating : Maverick, 4c Control, Aluren, MUD-post, Imperial Painter. Losing to UB Reanimator. Bloodbraid was a key part of a lot of those wins.

[CptHaddock]

I still love BBE in Jund, the value train is too fun and can take back a game where you are behind. I only have 1 Goyf, but I have been using Flayer in some of my Goyf-slots and he is a great alternative.

I also still run 2 Bolts over Fatal Pushes, as I do like Bolt as part of our "clock". I went 5-1 in a recent local Legacy League , beating : Maverick, 4c Control, Aluren, MUD-post, Imperial Painter. Losing to UB Reanimator. Bloodbraid was a key part of a lot of those wins.

I don't think I would run anything less than 4 BBEs unless the meta is 100% combo in which I would probably never run this deck. It seems really weird to cut Goyf though, that is probably one of the few cards we can actually depend upon to do something. As strange as this sounds i've cut my bobs and replaced them with flayers, they were frequently the worst card in my deck. I was happier curving directly into either a turn 2 Lili or some combination of discard/removal/wastelands and sometimes goyf/flayer.

I'm not playing punishing fires in my version instead going for 4x Bolt, Decay and 2x Command. I'm playing 2x pushes in my board but I don't think they are needed at all...

[hovercraft]

I don't think I would run anything less than 4 BBEs unless the meta is 100% combo in which I would probably never run this deck. It seems really weird to cut Goyf though, that is probably one of the few cards we can actually depend upon to do something. As strange as this sounds i've cut my bobs and replaced them with flayers, they were frequently the worst card in my deck. I was happier curving directly into either a turn 2 Lili or some combination of discard/removal/wastelands and sometimes goyf/flayer.

I'm not playing punishing fires in my version instead going for 4x Bolt, Decay and 2x Command. I'm playing 2x pushes in my board but I don't think they are needed at all...

Cutting goyf was a budget decision as I sold mine last year. I managed to pull one in a MM17 draft so right now I run 1 Goyf, 1 Flayer 1 Scooze and 1 Jitte in my 2 cmc beater slots. Less consistent, but I haven't had much issue with it. Love Jitte. I'm still big on Confidant. T1 DRS into T2 Bob+Wasteland is one of my favorite tempo Jund plays when you can pull it off.