[Deck] bUrg Tempo

[MXG]

After screwing around with different decks for a while (BUG Control, BUG Thresh, 4c Control, Grixis Delver, etc), I finally came back to Old Faithful and immediately 5-0'd, beating Doomsday, MonoRed Painter, BG Depths, Death & Taxes, and BUG Control. List below:

Creatures: 16

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Baleful Strix
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gurmag Angler

Inst/Sorc: 25

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push

Lands: 19

8 Blue Fetches
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island

Sideboard: 15

2 Invasive Surgery
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Hydroblast
1 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sudden Demise
1 Ancient Grudge

I really, really like this configuration, and the fun-off Garruk Relentless more than pulled its weight. Other than Burn, UR Delver, and Blood Moon decks, I don't really fear anything with this build.

[Jaytron]

Running the fairly standard 60 (1 pierce 2 TS main, instead of 3 pierce), looking at this for my SB:

3 Surgical
2 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
1 Edict
2 Jitte
1 Leo
1 K-Command
1 Pierce
1 Painful Truths
1 Pithing Needle

I'm sort of settled on this, but I'm debating on hedging more against DnT, as the last large event, it was everywhere.

However, I already think the TS/Push/Jitte/K-Command are great against DnT already. I likely don't need another hoser such as dread or Sulfur Ele?

[Theonlyone]

Hello, I'm running lately the version of Ben Friedman during the last legacy gp. My current metagame : miracles, MUD, elves, bug delver, stormand Aluren.
I don't manage to beat MUD (with forgemaster/wurmcoil...) with this list :
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Badlands
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island


1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Thoughtseize
3 Diabolic Edict
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Painful Truths
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Pithing Needle
2 Umezawa's Jitte

What would we like to board in versus Mud? What to board out? How to play this match up?

[Stevestamopz]

Not sure if this is the place to post such nonsense, but I've tried re-configuring BURG with Fatal Push into being more Grixis then true 4 colour, but still maintaining the same identity as BURG (because grixis delver is abysmal IMO).

I have really enjoyed playing this list, the maindeck feels just spot on. The early and midgames are just so fantastic thanks to Stifle and Tombstalker respectively. The sideboard is true mess at the moment though. I would love for the Ancient Grudge to be the 2nd Abrupt Decay but with only 1 Tropical it's just a bit sketchy. Apologies if this should be posted in the Grixis or Team America threads, but I would love to get some thoughts from the BURGer team.

//Creature (13)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tombstalker
2 True-Name Nemesis

//Instant (25)
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Daze
2 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
3 Stifle

//Sorcery (4)
4 Ponder

//Land (18)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Make Obsolete
SB: 2 Painful Truths
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte

[Draggo]

Not sure if this is the place to post such nonsense, but I've tried re-configuring BURG with Fatal Push into being more Grixis then true 4 colour, but still maintaining the same identity as BURG (because grixis delver is abysmal IMO).

Without green cards main deck, this is just a Grixis list (Grixis often plays 1-3 green cards side becouse of the Trop main deck).
Seems a bit slower oriented then the Stifle Grixis lists I see flying around since you are using 2 TNN and 1 SCM.
I actually like the 4 bolt/2 push in my Grixis list since in provides with a bit more awnsers then it used to have with less life-loss when you compair it with Dismemers.

But to come back to your list: to me it seems that you are missing out on the Decays that makes BURG what it is. A catch-more-delver-deck then the usual 3 color combinations that miss either bolt or decay.

[Theonlyone]

Hello, I've been testing some rug and bug delver lately and bug disappointed me against storm, Rug against miracles.
Is this delver version the one I need? My metagame : aluren, storm, bug delver, elves, miracles, MUD, reanimator, Sneak and lol?
Is this deck still viable for a bigger tournament?
Has anyone updated Friedman's list?
Is there a recent article about the viability of delver lately?
In advance, thanks....

[AfroSmile]

Hello, I've been testing some rug and bug delver lately and bug disappointed me against storm, Rug against miracles.
Is this delver version the one I need? My metagame : aluren, storm, bug delver, elves, miracles, MUD, reanimator, Sneak and lol?
Is this deck still viable for a bigger tournament?
Has anyone updated Friedman's list?
Is there a recent article about the viability of delver lately?
In advance, thanks....

If you don't recognize yourself in BUG, RUG or Grixis. I think you are in the right thread.
I think this deck is viable, but maybe it is not the wining strategy at the moment, because of all these midrangy decks.

My actual decklist is the following:
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
8 blue fetches
4 Wasteland

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Mix of Fatal Push, Diabolic Edict and Dismember.
2 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Pithing Needle
2 Flusterstorm

I don't think it exist a right decklist, but it exist a lot and you just have to pick the right one for you.
I hope it helps you a little bit.

[Theonlyone]

First, thanks for the nice answer. As the midrangy decks, do you mean : 4c control, bug delver, aluren and food chain because of 4 decays/ x fatal pushes and 4 strixes? What can a delver play in his 75 to have a better/even MU against those?

[blablub]

Play Snares and Hooting Mandrills. Then its ok to 2 fo r1 with strixes with your Removal because Mandrills make 75 % of their deck useless. Trample is so huge against Nemesis and Stuff. The biggest problem is that the Delve-Creatures are soo bad against Miracles :(

[MXG]

Hey everyone. I had a lot of downtime this weekend so I could actually play some MTGO leagues. I managed to run 4 leagues with the list below, and ended up 18-2 in overall matches. I should have been 19-1, except I got really excited, and punted the last turn of the deciding game in a marvelous fashion, but I digress. The deck is insane, and its only bad matchups are decks that run 2 or more basic Mountains. Even then, you can (and I did) win them.

Here's the list I played:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Baleful Strix
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SB:

1 Diabolic Edict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flusterstorm
2 Forked Bolt
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Invasive Surgery
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Sudden Demise
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique

A couple of notes:

- 2 Volcanic Island (i.e. no Badlands): This was a decision based on having no Thoughtseize in the maindeck (i.e. flex disruption slots are all countermagic). This meant I wanted every land to tap for blue.

- Misty Rainforest and Polluted Delta as fetches: These are the most ambiguous fetches, as they're used in every BUG deck. Opening with one of these does not motivate your opponent to play around Daze, while Scalding Tarn and Flooded Strand do.

- 2 Forked Bolt in the SB: This was done in response to the rising popularity of Czech Pile, as well as being insane vs Elves, DnT, and other Delver decks. I think this is where flex removal wants to be.

- No Leovold, no Snapcaster Mage: I love both of these cards very much, and while their utility and card-advantage is absolutely insane, they didn't quite pack enough "oomph" to make the cut. They're very, very good, and belong in many decks, such as Czech Pile, but this deck needs each card to be a little more backbreaking. Leovold and SCM just weren't connecting for damage often enough in this deck, where that statistic really matters.

Let me know what you think of the deck, and if you have any questions about the deck or how I approach any matchups, ask away.

[blablub]

I like your List MXG :)

What are we gonna play now? Do you guys stay towards the more Midrangey Nemesis Builds or do you go back to Goyfs and Stifle like the Signorini List from Gp Columbus?

[FZA]

Hey everyone. I had a lot of downtime this weekend so I could actually play some MTGO leagues. I managed to run 4 leagues with the list below, and ended up 18-2 in overall matches. I should have been 19-1, except I got really excited, and punted the last turn of the deciding game in a marvelous fashion, but I digress. The deck is insane, and its only bad matchups are decks that run 2 or more basic Mountains. Even then, you can (and I did) win them.

Here's the list I played:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Baleful Strix
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SB:

1 Diabolic Edict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flusterstorm
2 Forked Bolt
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Invasive Surgery
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroblast
1 Sudden Demise
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vendilion Clique

A couple of notes:

- 2 Volcanic Island (i.e. no Badlands): This was a decision based on having no Thoughtseize in the maindeck (i.e. flex disruption slots are all countermagic). This meant I wanted every land to tap for blue.

- Misty Rainforest and Polluted Delta as fetches: These are the most ambiguous fetches, as they're used in every BUG deck. Opening with one of these does not motivate your opponent to play around Daze, while Scalding Tarn and Flooded Strand do.

- 2 Forked Bolt in the SB: This was done in response to the rising popularity of Czech Pile, as well as being insane vs Elves, DnT, and other Delver decks. I think this is where flex removal wants to be.

- No Leovold, no Snapcaster Mage: I love both of these cards very much, and while their utility and card-advantage is absolutely insane, they didn't quite pack enough "oomph" to make the cut. They're very, very good, and belong in many decks, such as Czech Pile, but this deck needs each card to be a little more backbreaking. Leovold and SCM just weren't connecting for damage often enough in this deck, where that statistic really matters.

Let me know what you think of the deck, and if you have any questions about the deck or how I approach any matchups, ask away.

I like this list, I might try it out the next time I get a chance to play.

I think it's worth thinking about whether or not green is worth it anymore though, if you're only using it for 2 abrupt decay and 1 sideboard Garruk.

[theMonster]

MXG, I think your take on Delver is interesting and looks really powerful. I'm curious about what you thought of the maindeck Strix. You mention cards like Leovold and Snapcaster not pulling their weight as far as killing the opponent, yet Strix - as great as it is, no need to list its superlatives - is a 1/1 for two mana. Wouldn't Goyf be better to execute that game plan? Yeah, it makes the mana more awkward, doesn't cantrip, doesn't stare down Griselbrand, etc., but it hits hard and is a better threat against combo. I play paper Magic, so perhaps Strix fares better in the online metagame. Just curious about your thoughts on the card in this shell, based on your last 20 matches - congrats on the great showing, by the way.

Thanks a lot!

[Wendiger_Mungo]

MXG, I think your take on Delver is interesting and looks really powerful. I'm curious about what you thought of the maindeck Strix. You mention cards like Leovold and Snapcaster not pulling their weight as far as killing the opponent, yet Strix - as great as it is, no need to list its superlatives - is a 1/1 for two mana. Wouldn't Goyf be better to execute that game plan? Yeah, it makes the mana more awkward, doesn't cantrip, doesn't stare down Griselbrand, etc., but it hits hard and is a better threat against combo. I play paper Magic, so perhaps Strix fares better in the online metagame. Just curious about your thoughts on the card in this shell, based on your last 20 matches - congrats on the great showing, by the way.

Thanks a lot!

I think the role the strixes play is to help you executing the control role you have to play from time to time, its not there to clock your opponent since there are enough aggressive threats alrdy in this build. imo i would look at them more as a replacement for additional pierces/thoughtseizes/removal (since it blocks anglers and goyfs pretty well ) or sth along these lines instead of additional threats

[Qweerios]

Hi!

I play 4c Delver with 4 Goyfs, 2 TNN, 1 Leovold as my creatures #9-15 and 2 Fatal Push, 1 Dismember, 1 Stifle, and 2 Thoughtseize as my flex slots. I also play 3 Trops and a Badlands in my configuration for SB Decay and Golgari Charm. I am currently 18-4-0 with my current list after several weekly tournaments involving 30-40 players. My losses have been to SneakShow twice and Shardless BUG.

It is my understanding that the Friedman list became somewhat of a Grixis Delver deck now that Decay is no longer necessary. I think this deck still has a place simply because it combine Delver, DRS, Goyf and Bolt with the best blue disruption for fast and efficient beatdown. I am looking for some opinions on certain cards:

TNN, Leovold, Gurmag/Mandrill?

I started playing the deck with a 2/2 Leo/Snap split and quickly realized that Snap was almost always better off as a TNN. The more I play Delver, the more I want my creatures to end the game on their own. Leovold is a sweet card with insane abilities but it simply doesn't dig me out of a bad spot like a TNN or a Delve creature would so my reasoning of Leovold in a Delver shell is currently: "Why am I not playing more disruption instead?". The other side of this reasoning is valid as well because Leovold allows my disruption to beat my opponent down. I believe Leo falls shorts in this deck both as a beater(too small) and a disruption piece (too slow). Now which do you choose between TNN, Gurmag and Mandrill? Which do you think would complement DRS/Delver/Goyf best as beaters #1-3? I am thinking something along the lines of 1 Delve creature maximum to avoid unecessary tension and 1-2 TNN/Leovold. Do I even need TNN if I can enable Delve creatures in such a shell? Given that I can play Gurmag or Mandrill, which is better? +1/+1 vs. 1 less Delve and Trample, how often is one more relevant than the other if I can only pack one?

How many Sorceries do I need to make Goyf good? I currently play 2 Thoughtseize because I find it's a great way to diversify your disruption and get a sorcery in the yard while taking away a threat or removal spell. Thoughtseize however has some tension with Dismember and would love to play a 2nd copy. Gitaxian Probe as a 1-2of seem to me a great way to buff the sorcery count and to enable 1-2 Delve creatures. Even Preordain sounds legit.

How much removal should I aim for? Perhaps with better threats I don't need 7 removal spells but I don't think I want to go below 6. What is the optimal combination?

How much combo disruption should I aim for mainboard? I dislike Spell Pierce as it is simply too situational and underpowered compared to a card like Thoughtseize. Stifle is a favorite of mine but suffers from a similar condition as Spell Pierce. The first copy is often very good or pitches to FoW and every subsequent copy tends to have seriously diminishing returns. For these reasons I've always played those cards as singletons. With 4 Daze/4FoW/2TS/1Stifle should I try to fit in a Pierce? Swap the Stifle for a 3rd TS and favor Push over Dismember? Maybe just replace Stifle with Pierce?

Let me know what you think and why. Thanks!

[Jonathan Alexander]

So after not having played any BURG since Dig Through time got banned, I picked it up again recently thanks to Ethan Gaieski. I definitely enjoyed his Delver / Snapcaster version, but I ended up cutting the Delvers and play this:

//Creature
2 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis

//Instant
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare

//Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Badlands
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland

//Sorcery
1 Life from the Loam
2 Night's Whisper
4 Ponder
3 Thoughtseize

//Sideboard
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Counterspell
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 2 Fatal Push
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Kolaghan's Command
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Blazing Volley

If you have any questions regarding the list, make sure to catch both deck tech videos I did; you can catch those along with the matches I recorded here: “Complete” 4C Delver/less Playlist — #thedailywars #28-33. Unfortunately, the video files for my last two matches in the second leagues were corrupted and the Magic Online replays don't work either, so I couldn't upload them. I ended up beating Grixis Delver and Storm in the last two rounds, in case you were wondering.

If there's anything you'd like to know that isn't covered in the videos, go ahead and ask, I'll keep checking out this thread for the next few days.

[Plague Sliver]

Why play green just for Decay? Honest question, since you've definitely played fatal pushes in the past. Why stretch to four colors, is it just for chalice decks?

[Jonathan Alexander]

I would question the green splash without Loam in the deck, but Loam does so much work in Delver mirrors and against a bunch of random things. If I ever go back to the deck, I might try a lighter presence of green cards though.

[tescrin]

I assume the green splash is for Goyfs and the Red is for Bolts, while the black is for DRS. This is still the "all the things" deck, but I think if you drop the decays you can have RUG with DRS; which seems fine. DRS allows the most broken plays you can get where you do something like T1-DRS, T2-Waste, Killspell, Delver or T1 DRS + Daze, T2-Waste +Goyf. Also, against Combo, T1 DRS -> T2 Bolt + Activation if they don't do anything is 5 damage, not a bad clock on T2.

DRS opens up the ability to tempo your opponent a bunch, while Goyf and Delver are still the fastest and most reliable beats in the game. Bolt allows you the luxury of Delver + double bolt as a classic insta-gib on T5 or so. I don't know if pure RUG will see itself coming back, but this deck can easily become RUG + DRS - Goose.

Lastly, RUG misses the best early game interaction with Goyf, which is Thoughtseize. Taking a card nets Goyf to a minimum 3/4 most of the time when he plops and puts you on two axis of interaction for combo.

I think that's where this deck wants to be if it's going to be a thing with all the Push decks. Goyf is still The Dude a lot of the time, though figuring out the Gurmag problem is a thing. Might be worth finding an incidental Goyf pump like Liliana or another bomby 3-drop that can not only solve the Gurmag issue, but pump goyf if things don't work out.


IMO something like

4 DRS
4 Delver
4 Goyf
2 Gurmag/Goose/TNN/Mandrills

4 Bolt
2 Push
3-4 Thoughtsieze
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
3-4 Daze
4 Force


17-18 lands


Probably adjust a bit, but that seems like it'll punch your life total down pretty quick.

[Qweerios]

I've been playing all flavors of Delver recently and have been very successful with my 5c Tribal Flames/Nacatl/Delver/Deathrite/Mandrills/Snap pile. I've been tearing through most non-Depths and non-Moon decks for 6 weeks until I came to a sudden stop. Czech Pile and Grixis Control (with Moon) have been utterly destroying all of my Delver attemps with their multiple Bolts, Pushes, Decays, Edicts, Strixes and Snaps. It has come to a point where I can't even connect once with a Deathrite, double Nacatl, and Delver opener! Push, Strix, Snap Push is too common... There is just no reason to play Nacatl over Mongoose if I can't get through with an explosive start anymore.

I think it's time for me to put down the Tribal Flames and Nacatls and go back to Mongoose and Wasteland. Nimble Mongoose seems particularly strong right now with all these removal spells and Strixes flying around making the Goyf and Chalice decks cry. However, I still believe RUG is missing out on Deathrite so I think bUrg is where the Mongoose is at. Also, bUrg with Mongoose might be a good home for Chart a Course!

Here's the list I've made for my next tournament. Let me know what you think!


4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 True-Name Nemesis

1 Dismember
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain

4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
//SB
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Golgari Charm
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Pithing Needle


A bit about the card choices...

-I opted for 2 TNN as my threats #13-14 because they act as Mongoose #5-6. A late TNN does more for my gameplan than a Goyf, is easier to cast than a Leovold, and doesn't eat away at my GY like a Gurmag or Mandrill would.

-I chose to play 2 Decays mainboard in order to make sideboard space. Decay is not the most optimal removal spell but it is so versatile that it can still be argued for as a complement to Bolt and Dismember. I could definitely see an argument for Push/Dismember over Decay mainboard and fit Decay in the SB.

-The 2 Preordains were originally Stifles or Spell Snares (bonkers against Strix/Snap!) but I grew tired of situational cards rotting in my hand while Mongoose wanted a couple cards for his threshold. Preordains are simply good in a 4c deck that runs on very few lands and has such a high quality sideboard. I could see this slot being challenged by Chart a Course. Chart is a good GY filler for Mongoose and DRS while also digging for key cards and even possibly giving us some CA. Double the cost is a serious drawback that needs to be considered through.

-Two Leos in the board is a way for me to bring in hatebears against Combo (when I side out threats) and Control decks (increasing my threat density). I'm not sure but I think the 2nd Leo is better than having a Cage.

-I insisted on a pair of Edicts for Depths, Reanimator, Delver, and Chalice Aggro decks where my Bolt/Decay/Dismember combination might be lacking. This is one of the main reasons I squeezed Decays main instead of packing them in the SB.

-I went down to 1 Golgari Charm as a complement to Decay against Blood Moon and Edicts against TNN. I wouldn't feel safe without a -1/-1 effect against Elves, DnT and Belcher...

-Only 1 KCommand even though a second copy would be great. Being red and 3 mana competes with Leovold#2. I diversified my grinding package by adding a Sylvan Library instead.

-I've always had mixed results with Loam as it is either amazing or underwhelming. I could always play something else instead.

Would it be an overkill to play 4 Bolts, 2 Dismembers, and 2 Decays mainboard? I feel like making way for Mongoose with removal is important and I don't want any DRS, Gurmags or Goyfs to come piss on my parade.