Edited --
Time stamp is 4:50 at this link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149453626
He takes game 1 against eldrazi but gets absolutely obliterated post board. It looks like he is playing C/g titanless.
6 hrs ago...rough. I live in asia so dont get to see most stuff on twitch. I watched zotmasters first game and then passed out. What version of post was he playing? Any details on the matchup?Originally Posted by Postman
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Last edited by nimkee; 06-05-2017 at 01:49 AM.
That was me, with the following C/g list, modified slightly from TheBoozeCube's:
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian's Stage, Karakas, Tabernacle, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Glacial Chasm, Wastes
4 Crop Rotation, Ancient Stirrings, Expedition Map, Warping Wail
3 Candelabra, Pithing Needle
1 Spatial Contortion
1 New Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek, Old Emrakul, TKS
2 Ugin, All is Dust
Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Spatial Contortion, Surgical, Ratchet Bomb
1 Dark Depths, Silent Arbiter
I got 9th at 5-2, with losses to Eldrazi and Esper True-Name and wins against BUG Leovold, Esper Stoneblade, Eldrazi, Storm, and Topless Miracles. That last one is still a good matchup.
Match reports, abbreviated since I wasn't taking post-game notes:
Round 1: BUG Leovold
Game 1: Multiple Hymns empty my hand and put All is Dust where it feeds a Tarmogoyf. Wasteland destroys the Maze which otherwise did very well against the Goyf, and I lose in two turns.
+1 Dark Depths, +2 Surgical, -1 Needle, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Warping Wail
Game 2: Hymns hit again, but I punk him out with Marit Lage.
Game 3: He fails to find Force of Will for Ugin, and Ulamog cleans up.
Round 2: Esper Stoneblade (Ben Friedman)
Game 1: We both durdle for a while, but I durdle to Emrakul.
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Pithing Needle, +3 Krosan Grip
Game 2: Multiple Thoughtseizes slow me down and I don't topdeck a bomb before Snapcaster + Collective Brutality steals my last 2 life. Meddling Mage appears and names Krosan Grips that are stuck in my hand.
-1 Krosan Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion
Game 3: A long grind. Maze of Ith holds off a Stoneforge that would have carried a Sword of Fire and Ice. Eventually resources are worn down after he Snap-Thoughtseizes away my Emrakul. I shuffle my graveyard in, topdeck a Crop Rotation for Eye, and get Emrakul again.
Round 3: Eldrazi
Game 1: I get run over, having not kept a hand that could have done anything against that deck before turn 5.
-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Spatial Contortion
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Silent Arbiter, +1 Dark Depths
Game 2: I mulligan to a 5 that contains Land, Maze, Candelabra. After some deft maneuvering involving copying Crystal Vein with Vesuva, Maze + Silent Arbiter staves off the horde long enough to land Ulamog and then Emrakul. Ratchet Bomb gets to clean up two Chalices, two Scions, and an Endless One on 7.
Game 3: I play tricks with Glacial Chasm and Thespian's Stage to wind up at 2 life with a Stage/Chasm and topdeck Expedition Map for Dark Depths.
Round 4: Storm
Game 1: I am on the draw and opt to play T1 Cloudpost, T2 Vesuva instead of T2 Glimmerpost which would have put me out of range of the T3 Tendrils kill.
-1 Spatial Contortion, -2 Maze of Ith, -1 Ulamog, -3 Pithing Needle, -2 All is Dust
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +2 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Surgical, +1 Dark Depths
Game 2: He keeps a no-land Probe hand but finds no lands with it. I set up Stage/Depths and he can't combo off on his last turn.
Game 3: He Duresses me on T1 and takes a Map because my post-mulligan hand doesn't have much action. Fortunately I topdeck Sphere of Resistance, TKS, 2x Surgical, and Bojuka Bog which are enough.
Round 5: Eldrazi *** Camera Match ***
Available here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149453626
4:50:55 - Opening hand drawn 2x Cloudpost, 2x Forest, 2x Crop Rotation, Spatial Contortion?
4:52:50 - I have a choice between holding up Crop Rotation or going whole-hog on Cloudposts. I go with the former to avoid a blowout. Since my opponent fails to draw land for a while I end up natural-ramping anyway.
4:53:52 - This Needle is on Wasteland, since the plan is to Rotate for Eye and cast Emrakul and every nonbasic is necessary.
4:56:10 - Sideboarding, same as before:
-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Spatial Contortion
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Silent Arbiter, +1 Dark Depths
4:56:20 - The decklist sheet. Being a math graduate student, I earn money by teaching math classes - in this case, Calculus II. I printed my decklist on the back of an unused worksheet I assigned to my class because I have hundreds of those things and there's no sense in not reusing perfectly useful paper with one side still blank.
4:58:30 - I'm contemplating a one-Forest hand that has Map, Candelabra, Ratchet Bomb but no way to stop a large creature. I decide that the payoff of drawing a land is not good enough and mulligan.
4:59:15 - This hand has 3 Vesuva as the only lands, and still no way to deal with a large creature. I'm basically mulliganing to Maze of Ith here, besides which copying his lands with Vesuva is dicey as I don't want to copy Tombs or Cities or Temples.
5:00:04 - I scry away Crop Rotation because I expect Chalice and need to draw Cloudposts.
5:00:20 - The tank here is to decide between holding up Rotation as a response or to deploy the Map. Since I expect needing to get Glacial Chasm at some point, I play the map since Chasm shouldn't be played on one land and also should not be gotten with Crop Rotation if at all possible.
5:00:45 - "I think 12 Post has it, completely" while the Chalice is coming down. If I had been able to hear this at the time I would have laughed out loud.
5:01:35 - Now that a Wasteland and a Chalice have appeared, the original plan of Map -> Chasm is suicidal. In fact Map -> almost any nonbasic is bad since the land just gets blown up because no Pithing Needle will be in play. However, Map -> Thespian's Stage still puts me at +1 mana for a while since my opponent will not proactively Wasteland it (because I'll just make it into a Forest), and if I draw a desired nonbasic (e.g. Maze) then I can copy that land with Stage in response to a Wasteland. And if, somehow, he taps the Wasteland and I have Dark Depths then I just win on the spot. The +1 mana could become important in order to Grip + 1cc spell in the same turn, though the game did not develop that way, and I might not be able to afford the 2 mana for Map at any other time. Map -> Stage is absolutely the correct play here. The long tank here is me working through this logic.
5:03:26 - Unfortunately that plan gets smashed by the arrival of Reality Smasher. If I don't chump with an Eldrazi Scion, then a topdecked Grip on Chalice followed by Crop Rotation -> Maze no longer saves me, and that is the only line that buys a turn through an active Wasteland (if I don't chump, I go to 6 and the non-Smasher creatures total 6 power). The chump must happen at the expense of the Stage. You can see how at the time I already had forgotten about the Thorn...
5:04:00 - Yes I know (now), the Crop Rotation can't actually be cast here because of the Thorn. My opponent and I both missed this fact, though it would not have changed the direction of the game.
5:05:54 - See above. I did get a warning for these.
5:09:50 - This hand has Wastes+T1 Candelabra followed by T2 Maze, has Ratchet Bomb/Krosan Grip to answer Chalices, and Stirrings to find cards. Yes, it has no green sources, but I can lock two creatures out of combat to buy time to find lands, and I can still answer Chalice without green because of the Ratchet Bomb. So I decide to keep. I think it's slightly more correct to mulligan, but that is easy to say now that the course of the game is known. If his hand had been TKS + Smasher + Chalice and nothing else then this hand wins pretty much every time, and that's a hand he would definitely keep given how game 2 played out. I would not keep this hand against any deck other than Eldrazi.
548 - Stream stress is for wimps.
502 - See, Cloudpost off the top. Things are already coming together.
518 - Nuts. The game is effectively over at this point.
5
Round 6: Esper True-Name
Game 1: I resolve an Ugin that sweeps away a Deathrite and a Stoneforge, then a TNN. A second TNN follows and picks up a Jitte and a Batterskull. I have a Tabernacle in play and incorrectly search for Ulamog to take out the equipment. I get hit down to 2 and then drained by Collective Brutality.
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Warping Wail, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion
I am expecting Meddling Mages, so I bring in another Spatial Contortion.
Game 2: I have to play Chasm tricks against 2x Deathrite in order to stay alive, but he has triple Force of Will for the relevant spells. Bad luck here, but a better plan for True-Name Nemesis is in order.
Round 7: Topless Miracles
Game 1: I ramp hard and dump some Eldrazi after he burns a Force of Will on a Warping Wail that would have countered Entreat the Angels.
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Warping Wail, +3 Krosan Grip
Game 2: I mulligan to 4 and despite having access to 40 mana through Posts and Candelabras do not topdeck a bomb before dying to angel tokens.
Game 3: He fetches a lot of basics so I play conservatively in anticipation of Back to Basics. I have a hand full of threats though, and a Map for a third Cloudpost allows the Eldrazi parade to crush him.
Observations
1) Dark Depths definitely belongs in the sideboard.
2) Warping Wail gets sided out a lot, though I faced less combo than I expected.
3) A third Maze of Ith and an additional Forest would nice if a reasonable cut can be made.
4) Candelabra is insane.
5) A lot of opening hands are borderline. This could be just a fluke, but an additional filtering effect could go a long way. I'm thinking 1 Oath of Nissa or 1 Sylvan Library.
Changes
-1 Warping Wail, +1 Maze of Ith
Thanks for reading. I'll answer any questions.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
Congrats on the finish!That was me, with the following C/g list, modified slightly from TheBoozeCube's:
4 Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Vesuva
7 Forest
2 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian's Stage, Karakas, Tabernacle, Bojuka Bog, Eye of Ugin, Glacial Chasm, Wastes
4 Crop Rotation, Ancient Stirrings, Expedition Map, Warping Wail
3 Candelabra, Pithing Needle
1 Spatial Contortion
1 New Emrakul, New Ulamog, Old Kozilek, Old Emrakul, TKS
2 Ugin, All is Dust
Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance, Spatial Contortion, Surgical, Ratchet Bomb
1 Dark Depths, Silent Arbiter
I got 9th at 5-2, with losses to Eldrazi and Esper True-Name and wins against BUG Leovold, Esper Stoneblade, Eldrazi, Storm, and Topless Miracles. That last one is still a good matchup.
Match reports, abbreviated since I wasn't taking post-game notes:
Round 1: BUG Leovold
Game 1: Multiple Hymns empty my hand and put All is Dust where it feeds a Tarmogoyf. Wasteland destroys the Maze which otherwise did very well against the Goyf, and I lose in two turns.
+1 Dark Depths, +2 Surgical, -1 Needle, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Warping Wail
Game 2: Hymns hit again, but I punk him out with Marit Lage.
Game 3: He fails to find Force of Will for Ugin, and Ulamog cleans up.
Round 2: Esper Stoneblade (Ben Friedman)
Game 1: We both durdle for a while, but I durdle to Emrakul.
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Pithing Needle, +3 Krosan Grip
Game 2: Multiple Thoughtseizes slow me down and I don't topdeck a bomb before Snapcaster + Collective Brutality steals my last 2 life. Meddling Mage appears and names Krosan Grips that are stuck in my hand.
-1 Krosan Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion
Game 3: A long grind. Maze of Ith holds off a Stoneforge that would have carried a Sword of Fire and Ice. Eventually resources are worn down after he Snap-Thoughtseizes away my Emrakul. I shuffle my graveyard in, topdeck a Crop Rotation for Eye, and get Emrakul again.
Round 3: Eldrazi
Game 1: I get run over, having not kept a hand that could have done anything against that deck before turn 5.
-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Spatial Contortion
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Silent Arbiter, +1 Dark Depths
Game 2: I mulligan to a 5 that contains Land, Maze, Candelabra. After some deft maneuvering involving copying Crystal Vein with Vesuva, Maze + Silent Arbiter staves off the horde long enough to land Ulamog and then Emrakul. Ratchet Bomb gets to clean up two Chalices, two Scions, and an Endless One on 7.
Game 3: I play tricks with Glacial Chasm and Thespian's Stage to wind up at 2 life with a Stage/Chasm and topdeck Expedition Map for Dark Depths.
Round 4: Storm
Game 1: I am on the draw and opt to play T1 Cloudpost, T2 Vesuva instead of T2 Glimmerpost which would have put me out of range of the T3 Tendrils kill.
-1 Spatial Contortion, -2 Maze of Ith, -1 Ulamog, -3 Pithing Needle, -2 All is Dust
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +2 Sphere of Resistance, +2 Trinisphere, +2 Surgical, +1 Dark Depths
Game 2: He keeps a no-land Probe hand but finds no lands with it. I set up Stage/Depths and he can't combo off on his last turn.
Game 3: He Duresses me on T1 and takes a Map because my post-mulligan hand doesn't have much action. Fortunately I topdeck Sphere of Resistance, TKS, 2x Surgical, and Bojuka Bog which are enough.
Round 5: Eldrazi *** Camera Match ***
Available here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149453626
4:50:55 - Opening hand drawn 2x Cloudpost, 2x Forest, 2x Crop Rotation, Spatial Contortion?
4:52:50 - I have a choice between holding up Crop Rotation or going whole-hog on Cloudposts. I go with the former to avoid a blowout. Since my opponent fails to draw land for a while I end up natural-ramping anyway.
4:53:52 - This Needle is on Wasteland, since the plan is to Rotate for Eye and cast Emrakul and every nonbasic is necessary.
4:56:10 - Sideboarding, same as before:
-2 All is Dust, -2 Ugin, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Spatial Contortion
+2 Ratchet Bomb, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Silent Arbiter, +1 Dark Depths
4:56:20 - The decklist sheet. Being a math graduate student, I earn money by teaching math classes - in this case, Calculus II. I printed my decklist on the back of an unused worksheet I assigned to my class because I have hundreds of those things and there's no sense in not reusing perfectly useful paper with one side still blank.
4:58:30 - I'm contemplating a one-Forest hand that has Map, Candelabra, Ratchet Bomb but no way to stop a large creature. I decide that the payoff of drawing a land is not good enough and mulligan.
4:59:15 - This hand has 3 Vesuva as the only lands, and still no way to deal with a large creature. I'm basically mulliganing to Maze of Ith here, besides which copying his lands with Vesuva is dicey as I don't want to copy Tombs or Cities or Temples.
5:00:04 - I scry away Crop Rotation because I expect Chalice and need to draw Cloudposts.
5:00:20 - The tank here is to decide between holding up Rotation as a response or to deploy the Map. Since I expect needing to get Glacial Chasm at some point, I play the map since Chasm shouldn't be played on one land and also should not be gotten with Crop Rotation if at all possible.
5:00:45 - "I think 12 Post has it, completely" while the Chalice is coming down. If I had been able to hear this at the time I would have laughed out loud.
5:01:35 - Now that a Wasteland and a Chalice have appeared, the original plan of Map -> Chasm is suicidal. In fact Map -> almost any nonbasic is bad since the land just gets blown up because no Pithing Needle will be in play. However, Map -> Thespian's Stage still puts me at +1 mana for a while since my opponent will not proactively Wasteland it (because I'll just make it into a Forest), and if I draw a desired nonbasic (e.g. Maze) then I can copy that land with Stage in response to a Wasteland. And if, somehow, he taps the Wasteland and I have Dark Depths then I just win on the spot. The +1 mana could become important in order to Grip + 1cc spell in the same turn, though the game did not develop that way, and I might not be able to afford the 2 mana for Map at any other time. Map -> Stage is absolutely the correct play here. The long tank here is me working through this logic.
5:03:26 - Unfortunately that plan gets smashed by the arrival of Reality Smasher. If I don't chump with an Eldrazi Scion, then a topdecked Grip on Chalice followed by Crop Rotation -> Maze no longer saves me, and that is the only line that buys a turn through an active Wasteland (if I don't chump, I go to 6 and the non-Smasher creatures total 6 power). The chump must happen at the expense of the Stage. You can see how at the time I already had forgotten about the Thorn...
5:04:00 - Yes I know (now), the Crop Rotation can't actually be cast here because of the Thorn. My opponent and I both missed this fact, though it would not have changed the direction of the game.
5:05:54 - See above. I did get a warning for these.
5:09:50 - This hand has Wastes+T1 Candelabra followed by T2 Maze, has Ratchet Bomb/Krosan Grip to answer Chalices, and Stirrings to find cards. Yes, it has no green sources, but I can lock two creatures out of combat to buy time to find lands, and I can still answer Chalice without green because of the Ratchet Bomb. So I decide to keep. I think it's slightly more correct to mulligan, but that is easy to say now that the course of the game is known. If his hand had been TKS + Smasher + Chalice and nothing else then this hand wins pretty much every time, and that's a hand he would definitely keep given how game 2 played out. I would not keep this hand against any deck other than Eldrazi.
5
5
5
5
Round 6: Esper True-Name
Game 1: I resolve an Ugin that sweeps away a Deathrite and a Stoneforge, then a TNN. A second TNN follows and picks up a Jitte and a Batterskull. I have a Tabernacle in play and incorrectly search for Ulamog to take out the equipment. I get hit down to 2 and then drained by Collective Brutality.
-1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Tabernacle, -1 Warping Wail, +2 Krosan Grip, +1 Spatial Contortion
I am expecting Meddling Mages, so I bring in another Spatial Contortion.
Game 2: I have to play Chasm tricks against 2x Deathrite in order to stay alive, but he has triple Force of Will for the relevant spells. Bad luck here, but a better plan for True-Name Nemesis is in order.
Round 7: Topless Miracles
Game 1: I ramp hard and dump some Eldrazi after he burns a Force of Will on a Warping Wail that would have countered Entreat the Angels.
-1 Pithing Needle, -1 Bojuka Bog, -1 Warping Wail, +3 Krosan Grip
Game 2: I mulligan to 4 and despite having access to 40 mana through Posts and Candelabras do not topdeck a bomb before dying to angel tokens.
Game 3: He fetches a lot of basics so I play conservatively in anticipation of Back to Basics. I have a hand full of threats though, and a Map for a third Cloudpost allows the Eldrazi parade to crush him.
Observations
1) Dark Depths definitely belongs in the sideboard.
2) Warping Wail gets sided out a lot, though I faced less combo than I expected.
3) A third Maze of Ith and an additional Forest would nice if a reasonable cut can be made.
4) Candelabra is insane.
5) A lot of opening hands are borderline. This could be just a fluke, but an additional filtering effect could go a long way. I'm thinking 1 Oath of Nissa or 1 Sylvan Library.
Changes
-1 Warping Wail, +1 Maze of Ith
Thanks for reading. I'll answer any questions.
I definitely agree on the third Maze. I tried cutting one not long ago and really missed it. The third copy makes a big difference with both Ancient Stirrings and natural draw. Another Forest would be nice, but I think having the Wastes in that slot is more important in the current meta to fight W/R D&T. And I can't see another slot for it.
I'm surprised at how often you're boarding out Wail. I'd have kept it in vs both BUG and Esper to eat Deathrites and Stoneforges. But I've also been having difficulty deciding what to board out lately. Did you miss them at all?
I'm curious how TKS performed. How often did you see/cast it? Did you ever Eye for it? Did it make a noticeable difference?
As far as filtering, I think Sylvan is better. With all the Chalices running around, 1G might be the superior choice. Another possibility I've considered (but never tested) is Scroll Rack, which has the advantage of being colorless. Another option might be to move a second Spatial to the main or run a 1x Dismember. It won't smooth your draws, but it does give you more early removal that's castable by marginal hands to help give you more time.
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Thanks for the write-up! Seeing you crop rotate into tabernacle that first game was pretty sweet. Its too bad it didn't turn out well in the other games. Getting 9th is pretty sweet, congrats on the finish!
I played a few round tonight and found myself repeatedly mulliganing because of one landers. We had a short 3 rounds, and I went 1-2 overall using mono-green post (sorry for the formatting).
2 [ROE:174] Ancient Stirrings
1 [OGW:184b] Wastes
4 [MRD:280] Cloudpost
7 [UNH:140] Forest
1 [OGW:126] World Breaker
3 [MBS:81] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [VMA:208] Eureka
2 [ZEN:201] Expedition Map
1 [LEG:248] Karakas
2 [AVR:226] Cavern of Souls
1 [C14:285] Bojuka Bog
2 [FRF:1] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 [TSP:281] Vesuva
1 [DRK:114] Maze of Ith
1 [CSP:145] Dark Depths
2 [OGW:12] Warping Wail
2 [ALA:218] Relic of Progenitus
2 [ODY:251] Moment's Peace
1 [GTC:248] Thespian's Stage
1 [ROE:4] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [WWK:136] Eye of Ugin
4 [M12:188] Primeval Titan
2 [ZEN:172] Oracle of Mul Daya
1 [EMN:6] Emrakul, the Promised End
3 [RTR:231] Pithing Needle
2 [WTH:86] Veteran Explorer
4 [SOM:227] Glimmerpost
1 [BFZ:15] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [LEG:252] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 [ULG:98] Crop Rotation
SB: 1 [MLP:34] Endbringer
SB: 1 [MGDC:39] Reclamation Sage
SB: 1 [MM2:99] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [DRK:109] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [V12:7] Glacial Chasm
SB: 1 [MBP:33] Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 [OGW:12] Warping Wail
SB: 2 [SHM:66] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [C15:189] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [ODY:251] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [PTC:46] Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 1 [ROE:1] All Is Dust
Round 1, Grixis Delver 0-2.
G1: I got destroyed by t1 delver, then t2 flipped the delver off a force, then git probes into therapy and then wastelands my cloudpost. T3 he fetches, plays another delver and shreds my hand and bolts me end of my turn. T4 he untaps into another land and a big fish after probing me again.
G2: I start with a glimmerpost on Pithing Needle. His t1 is delver. T2 I play a forest into an ancient stirrings that finds a maze of ith. He flips delver off of bolt, then git probes and therapies me again. I untap, play a maze, and a veteran explorer, and eat a bolt to the dome eot. T3 he untaps and plays a vortex which seals the deal. I durdle with maze of ith a bit but he plays more threats and has bolts to help him race. He also stifled my maze of ith twice.
Grixis delver feels like a horrible matchup. My list in particular doesn't seem especially great, how does the straight C/g matchup feel?
round 2: Br-reanimator, 2-0
These games dragged out but began with me having a crop-rotation, maze, or karakas in hand which kind of kept my opponent from really doing anything. I drew relic and surgical extraction game 2 and beat down with a vet explorer for awhile through a bloodmoon. I eventually drew big stuff and killed him.
round 3: goblins...1-2
This matchup felt very swingy. Game 1 I won the die roll and played a needle on wasteland with a glimmerpost. He had t1 goblin lackey. I don't remember what exactly happened but it snowballed quickly. I have more outs than he has lackeys but didn't see any. Game 2 I lead with forest into a stirrings and find a cloudpost. He leads...with a turn 1 lackey. T2 I play a cloudpost, which he wastes on his turn but I crop rotate it away into another post b/c my hand is very land light and I don't want to get wasted again. T3 I vesuva my post and then spatial contort his lackey on his turn. I think I untapped with ugin mana available and that was it.
G3...He leads with turn 1 lackey. That is 3 games in a row. I have needle for wasteland and he connects with lackey. Stuff happens fast and I never see any removal (post board, 3 warping wail, spatial contortion, maze of ith, even any of the 3 moments peace would have let me live, but just didn't get any of it.
I definitely missed not having the full three warping wails main. They are great cards.
My bastardized version seems to be missing something, though it does fantastic against midrange and control decks, and some of the combo decks...I just got wrecked tonight.
Any thoughts on this list and what I could switch-up? I will have a single candle at some point, though who knows when it will get here. I'll be playing titan post for the foreseeable future, though I might switch to the UG version at some point just to give it a try. Do you guys think the UG version is better than mono-green titan?
Can you say more about Round 3: Eldrazi with the chasm/stage shenanigains, how does that work? Also, why wastes over cataracts!?
Wastes still taps for colorless mana through Blood Moon, which is important for being able to cast Spatial Contortion post-board.
12-post Discord: https://discord.gg/QxYVg3g
It's pretty 50/50, I think. Having a full 4x maindeck board wipes, plus more cheap (non-Titan) tutors for Maze and Tabernacle goes a long way. The full set of Ancient Stirrings in particular makes finding any of those things much easier. Topdecking Ancient Stirrings also helps recover from heavy discard.
Warping Wail is a very strong card here, since it answers Pyromancer, Deathrite, and discard. Access to multiple Candelabras really makes a difference against Delver generally, both for untapping Mazes and to hedge against Wasteland. Unless I have Needle out, I always play very conservatively with my Crop Rotations and save them for protecting Maze/Cloudpost.
Between those two, I think UG is probably better right now. Mono-G Titan was hurt the most by the ban. It doesn't have the colorless density to really rely on Ancient Stirrings to smooth out its draws like Cg. UG gives you access to Brainstorm. It also relies on Candelabra much less, which is important if you have only one.
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I agree about the necessity of basic Wastes. Regarding Warping Wail, I only ever boarded out one copy if any. Usually I was in a situation where I wanted to bring in multiple copies of a high-impact card (Grip, Surgical) and needed to make a cut somewhere. While it's possible that I overvalued the sideboard cards and underestimated Deathrite or Stoneforge or Wail, I think the sideboard cards impact the match much more than a Warping Wail could:
1) BUG - I prefer to use Needle to fight Deathrites since if a Needle on Wasteland gets Decayed before you cast a bomb then it effectively did nothing, whereas if a Needle on Deathrite gets Decayed then you still saved 4 life or deprived them of some mana. So I like Surgical as an answer to Wasteland/Force/Hymn and 2x copies are needed. Dark Depths also warrants bringing in.
2) Esper - Maze already answers anything Stoneforge can really do except put equipment on True-Name, which Warping Wail cannot address but Krosan Grip can. I also feared Back to Basics so I doubled up on Grip. Also Spatial Contortion since Meddling Mage can shut me down. Warping Wail doesn't do anything about that either.
3) Miracles - Nothing that Warping Wail does is really necessary, but Krosan Grip for Back to Basics is (I think) absolutely required.
I only saw TKS against Storm where it was one of the key elements of winning the match (I took a Chain of Vapor that would have bounced the Sphere that was keeping him down, forcing him to Grim Tutor for one). Since C/g has no Leylines to protect the hand, a critical mass of disruption seems necessary so that you can play off the top of the deck and TKS helps that by being maindeckable. I put it in an open slot because I saw a lot of Omnitell at the previous tournament and wanted something useful to put in off of Show and Tell. It also buys good time against small-ish creature decks in general. I did not Eye for it in this event, but I have in the past in order to snipe Prices out of a Burn player's hand while I sat behind Glacial Chasm. I think it could be cut, though I would want to draw it more often before passing judgment.
I also would favor Sylvan Library, but the problem I'm concerned with is hands with one mana-producing land that are otherwise solid. An Oath might make those hands keepable while Sylvan does not. With Chalice being as prevalent as it is, though, I have to give the edge to Sylvan.
Wastes taps for colorless under Blood Moon, so I can Spatial Contortion a Magus or Warping Wail a Painter or cast TKS. The Chasm/Stage shenanigans I alluded to were (as I remember):
1) At 6 life with a Stage in play as a Cloudpost I play Glacial Chasm and sacrifice a Maze.
2) On my next turn I pay 2 life for Chasm and play a Dark Depths off a topdecked Map. I need to copy Dark Depths on the end of my opponents' turn after next, so on the end of his next turn I copy Chasm with Stage since I am now at 4 life and can't pay the upkeep on my turn, but need a Chasm in play to survive combat.
3) I pay 2 life for the Stage/Chasm and sacrifice the original Chasm to its cumulative upkeep. The Stage is now an untapped Stage/Chasm. I play a second Pithing Needle on Wasteland as protection.
4) On the end of my opponent's turn I produce Marit Lage. Untap and attack for lethal.
Usually the trick is to copy Chasm with Stage on your upkeep in response to the Chasm's upkeep trigger, then don't pay for the original Chasm. That would have been incorrect here as it would have left the Stage/Chasm tapped and unable to copy Dark Depths.
a.k.a. Eddy Viscosity
Any tips for titanless or C/g matchups vs UR and Grixis Delver? I did a small
I've played about a dozen matches over the last few days and have not won a single game. These matchups seem brutal. With grixis its always a turn 1 delver, or a git probe into a cabal therapy, followed by a turn 2 wasteland if I don't play a basic. People also seem to be back on stifle, which is wrecking me. I had a map stifled, and then a maze stifled, and then a snapcaster flashing back a stifle on another maze activation. It was B.R.U.T.A.L. Even when I get a needle up on wasteland it doesn't seem long before I get blown out. One game I needled t1, then removed a delver on my t2 with a wail, but then he plays another delver and a gurmag. I got bolted a couple times to the face for good measure that match.
I also, for whatever reason...am constantly mulliganing with this deck, in paper and online (I swear xmage hates this deck..). My build has 28 or 29 lands depending (minus chasm, dd, tabernacle, maze, and eye) there are still 23-24 lands but I constantly brick with either a single mana source or zero. That obviously doesn't help with these matchups...
Any advice navigating these two matchups would be great. I never seem to have problems with esper control, or czech pile...just the two above delver variants.
Thanks,
As you already mentioned, these are really hard matchups. Carpet of Flowers and Trickbind are nice here. Normaly i won over S&T or hardcast Titan over Cavern.
| Grixis Control
| Canadian Threshold
Do you have a recent list I could peruse for UG? I have a lot of the cards for it but have seen diff variants throughout the last few years, some with trickbind, some with fow or without, and some with flusterstorm main.
My local paper meta had almost eliminated delver decks altogether because of all the stompy decks and other bad matchups they had. Now they are coming back and its been rough. The decks I play usually have decent delver matchups...this is frustrating lol.
Same here. Not so much delverinos around the last 2 years. List.
Now i would change:
-3 Top
+1 Needle (up to 4) (Wasteland is your biggest enemy in every turn of the game)
+2 UG Nissa
-2 All is Dust
+2 Carpet of Flowers (never really bad!)
Congrats, I saw you at the top tables so I knew things must have been going well. Sorry that you finished salty 9th, but I'm glad that you ended on the profitable side of the 5-2 breakers. With 113 people, I was 4-2 going into the final round playing for 20th. I personally have moved away from 12post for the time being. Still playing Ugin/Emrakul, just by un-conventional means...*cough* Eureka *cough*. :-)
Curious why run repeal in your list without Candelabras? Have you thought about switching them to Song of the Dryads instead if you need removal?
I am going to be doing some testing today with my newer UG build at our local proxy tournament. It felt fairly solid last week.
I would love to hear more about that Eureka list.
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Stifle is one of the better cards against us, much more effective than straight countermagic. This is one of the areas where running the full set of Candelabras makes a big difference. The ability to get extra Maze activations each turn with Candles spreads their Stifles thin.
Depths definitely comes in for both of these matchups, since they have no real way to answer the token once it's out (although I guess we need to watch out for Stifle now too). Ratchet Bomb is great too, as is Silent Arbiter.
With Grixis, save Warping Wail for Pyromancer. Deathrite (if they run it) is low priority, as it's their slowest clock. Tabernacle is pretty strong here too because they're so land-light, even if they don't have a Pyromancer out (although I wouldn't tutor for it if they don't). There's not much you can do about Gurmag Angler besides Maze or a board wipe. If you don't have Needle out, save Crop Rotation to Stifle their Wastelands; you could even use it to Stifle their Stifle on Maze in an emergency.
UR is easily the most difficult Delver matchup because it's basically a burn deck. To the extent possible, I always hold up at least one Crop Rotation to get Chasm/Glimmerpost in response to Price once I've established a board presence. For the same reason, I try to hold on to Vesuvas and Glimmerposts as long as I can in order to get the most lifegain from them. Trinisphere also hurts them badly.
If your hand has a Forest, Cg can almost treat any Ancient Stirrings as additional lands when you're deciding whether to keep, especially on the play. It is very rare that you won't hit at least one land off it. It's riskier to do so on the draw in G1 because of possible T1 discard, but not unreasonable either. After you've gone below 6, almost any hand with Forest + Ancient Stirrings is a keeper.
On that note, make sure to play the full set of Ancient Stirrings in Cg. No exceptions. From the very beginning, I designed the deck specifically with Stirrings in mind. It is the best card in the deck, not close. Also make sure to play the full set of Maps, so that you can consistently find them with Stirrings (if you're looking for a specific land and don't find it, anyway).
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Ok, I got a crazy idea from Jarvis Yu's Lands article on CFB today: 1x SB Ancient Tomb. Basically, it lets us turn Forest + Crop Rotation into a T1 Sphere of Resistance or Warping Wail against combo, which is especially sweet on the draw.
This might be going too deep, but it's interesting to consider. What do y'all think?
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These are some great suggestions that I'll try implementing. I keep upping the stirrings and want more maze too so this makes total sense. Thanks!
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The tomb idea is interesting. Maybe give it a try and let us know how it goes?
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I played a UG list built around crop, tomb, WW, ratchet, SnT, plat, ... when WW came out (i posted the list here). i liked it very much because you can catch the opponent of guard with crop - tomb very often. The acceleration is also very welcome. It helped cast titan or overcome thalia, daze, pierce, revealed chancellor of annex, trini, etc. it's also a waste magnet. Though, i mostly t1, t2 crop-tomb against counter light or no counter decks. You definitely don't want to do it against a delver deck, except if you are in a pinch.
Oh and back then i also liked how it played with top if you had it in your opening hand: t1 top + look often set a t2 snt. But those were the good ol' days.
Last edited by MechTactical; 06-08-2017 at 04:25 AM.
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