[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[Cpt-Qc]

I might just try a 3/3 split with thoughtseize and duress to slow down combos. Even if I like Prelate, it's too slow most of the time.

[Jain_Mor]

I might just try a 3/3 split with thoughtseize and duress to slow down combos. Even if I like Prelate, it's too slow most of the time.

As a cousin of Maverick, I can confirm in junk that outside of being blue the best thing you can do to fight a combo deck is T1 discard, T2 hatebear.

@TMagpie, thanks for the report. So you went 4-4-1 in actual matches at the tournament right? I like your list, especially the way you listed it. Speaking to the above I would have replaced the extra Teeg and scooze in the side with two more thoughtsiezes. Not like this deck needs more two drops..

I agree on batterskull. You said you didn't board in Persecution very much, yet you played TNN decks all day.. why didn't you board it against the TNN decks?

[Cpt-Qc]

Zealous is king against True-Name, Young Peezy, Elves, DnT, Belcher, Goblins, Maverick and can be used in a plethora of other situations if you run out of stuff to bring in (any deck with strix, TES, Mentor decks just to name a few). It really is a must have in the board.

Also, with the raise in delver decks, isn't Batterskull a must to slow things down? It seems to be useful against all the different variants of the deck (maybe less so against RUG but that version is almost non-existant).

[TMagpie]

As a cousin of Maverick, I can confirm in junk that outside of being blue the best thing you can do to fight a combo deck is T1 discard, T2 hatebear.

@TMagpie, thanks for the report. So you went 4-4-1 in actual matches at the tournament right? I like your list, especially the way you listed it. Speaking to the above I would have replaced the extra Teeg and scooze in the side with two more thoughtsiezes. Not like this deck needs more two drops..

I agree on batterskull. You said you didn't board in Persecution very much, yet you played TNN decks all day.. why didn't you board it against the TNN decks?

My loss against elves was with him having several Deathrite shamans and Nettle sentinels out over a few turns, resolved a natural order and killed me. I didn't draw either Toxic or Zealous but had I drawn Zealous it would have done little while had I drawn Phyrexian Revoker, I would have delayed him a few more turns. But that's irrelevant because I didn't even draw the card.

I only lost to 1 BUG deck off of turn 2 Hymn to Tourach hitting both lands. I did draw Zealous in that game, but being I died to Goyf it was irrelevant there too.

My loss to RUG was off of Hooting Mandrils game 3. I drew Decay and Zealous and Toxic and plow. Both Toxic and plow got countered.

My loss to Grixis had me die with Decay, Toxic, and Zealous in hand with no black source.

The one game (against BUG) where Zealous was actually useful I wished it was Toxic so I could also kill his 2x Deathrites. But I will not run 4 Toxic OR 4 Zealous so 2 Toxic /2 Zealous is much preferable. Apart from that one game where a sweeper saved me, Truename Nemesis is often just an awful magic card against us, only ever being a threat if they have multiples out. I found the increase in stifles much more damaging because it makes leaning on multicolor/high cc (more than 2) answers more inconsistent. This was a known quantity to me 2 years ago; but the dominance of Dig through time and miracles pushed Stifle decks out of the limelight too much and I just forgot how tight the mana could be in this environment.

As for the Batterskull comment--Batterskull is a midranged threat that allows you to take over games against fair decks, assuming the issue was the board. When the issue is mana and tempo the idea of tweaking the deck's late game to solidify its early game becomes my point of concern.

Of my 4 losses, only 2 felt like I could have fixed either with tighter deck design and especially tighter play. The other two were just bad beats. Elves beating Maverick is not an upset by any means while Hymn getting lands and you not drawing lands has been kitchen table norms for me since 1999. However, losing to RUG and Grixis almost never happens to me in my local and are normally the bread and butter of my successes in the 60-100 man events I go to at my locals. Those are solvable problems that makes me think I need to re-adjust how I think about the matchup moving forward. The two opponents I had were very good and I cannot afford to make any mistakes against players of that caliber, and if I want to continue doing well I will need to step it up some more.

[DoomRabbit]

Anyone have any insight on Punishing Maverick?
Been wanting to play it for a while because I like variety, and I now have the lands I need to play it when I'm not on trusty GW/b Maverick.

I've seen lists with deathrite:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15716&d=296254&f=LE

And lists leaning on noble hierarch instead:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15407&d=293768&f=LE

So far in limited testing I like deathrite over noble, because deathrite is flexible and makes red.

Any lists you guys particularly like?
Any thoughts on Domri, or Bloodbraid elf?
3 vs 4 wasteland?
3 vs 4 punishing fire?

[calcymon]

1-Maze of Ith

2-Orim's Chant

3-Sanctum Prelate

1- i am playing it as well, sometimes it's the winning card against flying or grixix frog, but as u said i will try not using it and going for 1 basic swamp, as u said before sometimes playing with only 3 basic it's really frustrating, i played "vs back to basic stoneblade" and dragonstompy and losing like a fool in the past 2 weeks' tournaments with hands full of decays

2- u used it in some matchups or no? i want to try them too but only vs combo decks? elves?

3-ye, they are really slow, i am trying to use them but feel like "oh no i dont have the secondo white specific" 90% of times it's a really good card when u cast it but i feel like 1 drop vs combo are better, gaddock + thalia + canonist kills many decks so securing a turn 2 it's a must, so maybe orim's chant its the best option


i am agree with using the combo in the main deck, as u i had won many games with it months ago it's worth the risk with 61 cards

[menloe]

Anyone have any insight on Punishing Maverick?
Been wanting to play it for a while because I like variety, and I now have the lands I need to play it when I'm not on trusty GW/b Maverick.

I've seen lists with deathrite:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15716&d=296254&f=LE

And lists leaning on noble hierarch instead:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15407&d=293768&f=LE

So far in limited testing I like deathrite over noble, because deathrite is flexible and makes red.

Any lists you guys particularly like?
Any thoughts on Domri, or Bloodbraid elf?
3 vs 4 wasteland?
3 vs 4 punishing fire?

Punishing Maverick was my first legacy deck and I've played it for about a year. I did the same thing as you but in reverse: I built Punishing Maverick first (because my local meta is mostly fair and features many creatures, though we do have Storm, Dredge, Miracles, Elves and such like) and then got the pieces for GWb Maverick.

I like Fabian Gorzgen's list from one of last year's MKM events: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12433&d=271511&f=LE. I like and use the E-Tutor sideboard but made a few changes and would make additional changes if I were to play it tomorrow (hasn't been updated since the SDT ban.) I like the inclusion of utility lands (Maze, TS+DD) in some of the spell slots because they give your Knights something more to do than just get swoll. I run a basic plains in place of the Horizon Canopy (and am very happy with this change), Ghostly Prison in place of Moat for financial reasons (and would likely drop altogether now), and a Scryb Ranger in place of the second Scooze (because she is rad.) I find myself GSZ for the Scryb way more often than Scooze. She gives you extra mana, allows you to do obscene things with your Knights, gives your creatures pseudo-vigilance if you have a forest, etc.

Meritt Elmasri, who posts as Seraphix here, is also a disciple of the Punishing Fire. Seraphix did well at an SCG event last year with this list: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12947&d=275417&f=LE. Notable is the inclusion of Thalia in the side, which is the right place for her if you're going to run her in Punishing Maverick, and the Crop Rotation as an additional way to produce a 20/20 flying invincible avatar token. Seraphix maintains a blog that's worth checking out (Green Sun for Zero) and is probably the only person who regularly writes about the archetype. PM me if the link to the Punishing Maverick primer is broken and I will fish out the link from my inbox for you. Or PM the man himself, as Seraphix is, I think, more than happy to discuss the deck with like-minded folk.

I don't think BBE warrants a slot. A one-of looks bad and there are better cards to run in the flex spots. It also probably wants 3-4 slots, which there's not really room for. She doesn't do enough and you would necessarily be cutting creatures that do enough to facilitate her inclusion.

I like the idea of Domri, but haven't tested him yet. I am also not entirely sure what his role is. Punching reluctant Tarmogoyfs with your swolled up Knights?

I always assumed only running three Wastelands was to make room for the additional lands (3 red sources in addition to the 3 Groves) you have to run to support Punishing Fire and the DD combo. There's also more of a cost to running colorless mana producing lands in Pun Mav than in GWb Mav since we are a true three color deck. You could drop the DD combo or Maze to make room for the additional Wasteland, but I think the combo and utility of Maze are well worth the slots they occupy. Playing to a board state that only Marit Lage can solve is a reasonable strategy and has won me plenty of games as has mising the combo in the early turns.

The fourth Punishing Fire takes a land or creature spot. The fourth is unnecessary since the spell is recursive, so the slot is better filled by a utility creature or land.

I like both variants of Maverick and would be hard pressed to say which I prefer. GWb has one or two less axes depending on the build and so serves fewer masters which leads to fewer mulligans. It has better mana and what you should do with the mana is clearer. Punishing Maverick sometimes has straight horseshit for hands, but the addition of Punishing Fire gives you a way to win that doesn't rely on the board. It's good against dudes, it's good against opposing PWs, and netting 1 damage a turn against an opponent until they are dead is something that happens and is a great way to spend a couple of hours.

Hope this helps!

Edited to include: The arguments for running DRS vs. more Nobles are interesting. DRS is a hell of a guy, as you suggest, but requires you to run at least one black source. This makes your mana worse in a deck that is approaching borderline in that regard. Noble is more consistent and is easier on your mana. Obviously DRS is more powerful and has a higher upside, which is why I run x3 DRS and x1 Noble, but the consistency arguments have weight.

[TMagpie]

1- i am playing it as well, sometimes it's the winning card against flying or grixix frog, but as u said i will try not using it and going for 1 basic swamp, as u said before sometimes playing with only 3 basic it's really frustrating, i played "vs back to basic stoneblade" and dragonstompy and losing like a fool in the past 2 weeks' tournaments with hands full of decays

2- u used it in some matchups or no? i want to try them too but only vs combo decks? elves?

3-ye, they are really slow, i am trying to use them but feel like "oh no i dont have the secondo white specific" 90% of times it's a really good card when u cast it but i feel like 1 drop vs combo are better, gaddock + thalia + canonist kills many decks so securing a turn 2 it's a must, so maybe orim's chant its the best option


i am agree with using the combo in the main deck, as u i had won many games with it months ago it's worth the risk with 61 cards

1.) I'm still not certain if I am willing to cut Maze of Ith or not--but leaning on a land to fight Wasteland decks feels not as strong as it could be.

2.) Elves is a particularly difficult match-up for me, but I find that it gets much easier if you focus on a kill plan instead of a sweeper plan. It's simply too easy for elves to just topdeck into Natural Order/Glimpse/Symbiote and suddenly you're either dead or buried in so much card advantage it doesn't matter that Jitte killed 5-6 elves. Orim's Chant is my caveat to that match without sacrificing on my storm hate. Yes, it only stops the elf player for a turn, but being that my plan versus elves is to resolve a Knight of the Reliquary to kill them with a Marit Lage, I only need to stall them for three turns instead of four. If you are not worried about elves--Thoughtseize would be a better general disruption tool as it doesn't require leveraging a certain timing.

3.) I started with 4 Sanctum Prelate, and I'm still not fully convinced that less than four is correct. I brought 2 to the GP primarily because I didn't want to lose to the main reason I run this card--Lands. Sanctum Prelate + Sofi can almost win matches against the Lands match all by herself. It also has uses in other matchups--but often not as good as turning off Life from the Loam AND Abrupt Decay AND Punishing Fire all at the same time. It has gone down to 2 because apart from Lands its fairly mediocre (but still welcome) versus the rest of the field.

[calcymon]

i agree all the points


u ever had in mind to play 1 toxic 1 engineered plague instead of 2 toxic? my last question
(yeah its risky since all play artifact/enchant removal post side vs us)

[tescrin]

I like EPlague personally (Tutor-board), in part because it often not only kills 1-2 guys now, but it often requires them to GSZ (a win con) for RecSage, which dies as it lands meaning that you gained *another* card of CA in the process and took out their bouncing-kill-everything card; which is helpful. Putting elves into the "I have to answer his stuff" state is better than trying to answer them; as it forces them to search for cards rather than forcing you to look for cards. When you're not in blue, it's doubly important to put them on the defensive rather than looking to kill you. E-Plague is a good way to get 1-3+ turns of breathing room.

I think at the moment I'd favor ZP slightly over Deluge. Keeping your own boardstate is quite good and nipping a TNN in response to the equip-cost is a good tempo play (wasting their mana on nothing.) But deluge's sheer power level and ability to just say "Let's start over" has definitely been a winning way for me to deal with stalled-boardstates in my Junk days. I think this deck runs too many x/1's to want Deluge very often, but meh.

Despite my ranting on Mom, mom is also a decent win con against Elves, since a Pro-Green sword is usually not in the mix.

@TMagpie
Glad to hear Orim's did work (or that at least you like it)!

[calcymon]

i will probably try something like this, without ith, but it need testing



Creatures: 26
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells: 13
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Dark Depths

Lands: 22
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage

Sideboard: 15
2 Orim's Chant
2 Thoughtseize
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Qasali Pridemage/ or maelstrom pulse
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 engineered plague
2 ethersworn canonist (good combo with orim vs counter/combo decks i think, if u play orim on start of turn they will play nothing + you could gain 1 turn vs sneak/show or to prevent them to clean board with kozilek return)


i think personally that Toxic Deluge need to be used on side, vs some matchups is unexpected (i play vs maverick,no clean board cards! let's play all creatures i have and get advantage, boom Toxic)

engineered plague is goood vs plenty of matchups
elves
taxes -elemental
ur/grixis mage : snap - grim lavamancer - delver elemental: pyro tokens merfolk: True-Name
deathblade -True-Name
infect -ALL
eldrazi (bye bye mimic+gain more turns to kill them)
Merfolk
a board full of Baleful Strix
Thopter Foundry/Monk tokens's decks-forfunattornaments (they exist )
others decks



still not sure if 2 Thoughtseize or 3, but with "in orim we trust"

[tescrin]

engineered plague is goood vs plenty of matchups

Agreed. I've locked out a couple grixis players by naming human (delver/pyro/lavaman/swiftspear/soul-scar) and I use it as an anti TNN card because it kills *this one* and all future TNNs until answered, and I really like putting the opponent in the position of having to answer cards. Especially decks that aren't BUG, as they often don't have a lot (or any) enchantment kill, making it quite reasonable.

I also use it against Lingering Souls, Monastery Monk, TES (tutorable Gobbo killer), and probably a few other things (as mentioned: Thopter decks, random tribal decks) and it's also a non-targeted kill card, so I sometimes just kill a Revoker or something. It's *really* good IME. Not good enough for a bunch of copies, but as a tutorable hate card/kill card, it's nice.

[TMagpie]

Engineered Plague is making my nether regions moist with anticipation. Must try it out.

[menloe]

Engineered Plague is making my nether regions moist with anticipation. Must try it out.

I too love Engineered Plague and it was one of the reasons I stuck with the E-Tutor board for as long as I did.

[calcymon]

I really like putting the opponent in the position of having to answer cards. Especially decks that aren't BUG, as they often don't have a lot (or any) enchantment kill, making it quite reasonable.

it's also a non-targeted kill card, so I sometimes just kill a Revoker or something. It's *really* good IME. Not good enough for a bunch of copies, but as a tutorable hate card/kill card, it's nice.

i agree at these points ^^
vs taxes u can avoid flickerwisp jumps to save pieces with it
i had lost many times vs 2 revokers on equips/shamans/kotr or 2 flickerwisp attacking
i think its a really adaptable and strong



http://www.hareruyamtg.com/jp/k/kD07911W/
here is a non-combo deck with 3 different basics
still i dont accept gaddock not in main deck since he solowin vs ant




i will probably try this build for few weeks

Creatures: 25
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Dryad Arbor

Spells: 14
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Dark Depths

Lands: 22
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage

Sideboard: 15
2 Orim's Chant
2 Thoughtseize
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom pulse (basic swamp coff coff)
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 engineered plague
2 ethersworn canonist
1 Gaddock teeg


- or 3 stoneforge for 1 bird or Hierarch
- 4 mothers or 3 and 1 sylvan safekeeper (strong for combo)




still need to try rallier a rly good player (friend of mine) is running it into his maverick but not playing the deck right now
[2 wasteland in a turn or jitte/mother of runes/stoneforge from grave is good main deck, but a sideout vs all shaman decks or grave hates sides, thats why i am afraid to play it]

[TheoryCraft]

With GP Las Vegas in the books, where does everyone see the direction of Maverick going? GW? GWb? Punishing? Same general principles as before, or new meta shifts requiring adaptation?

[Thunderknight]

I'm finally back from GP Vegas. I day 2'ed my first Legacy GP with my list, which I've been putting in a lot of hours, and it feels good to be rewarded. Went 6-3 Day 1. Went 2-3-1 in Day 2. I'll upload my tournament report after Its been edited out by my sponsor. But here's the list that I piloted.

4x Mother of Runes
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Bird of Paradise
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scryb Ranger
4x Knight of the Reqliary
2x Thalia, Heretical Cathar
1x Courser of Kruphix

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sylvan Library

4x Wasteland
4x Windswepth Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Maze of Ith
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor

SB:
2x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Sanctum Prelate
2x Ehtersworn Canonist
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Toxic Deluge

Some notable conclusions:
1.) I don't like where Sanctum Prelate is right now. I just feel that its just too slow to answer the threats that need to be answer. I believe the reason the why it works in Death and Taxes is because they are running Recruiter to find it. Unless the Maverick List is running that package, I don't think we need Prelate. I've boarded it in against Storm, and that was it.
2.) Maze and Ith + Blessed Alliance. I've won many games with this interaction. Against Delver, Maze the Anger, and Alliance the TNM. Against Reanimator, any creature can go away. Blessed Alliance, IMO, should be at least 1x in sideboard if the list is running Maze. It's a versatile card that can be brought into many match-ups (Burn, Delver, Reanimator, Deathblade, Lands, Death and Taxes). Even if you are not sacrificing a creature, gaining 4 life and untapping Mom and Knights are strong plays.

I'm going to try to go all out on this report, because i feel that I have a lot of advice to give. I've been on this deck extensively for over a year now and I feel that I'm not getting the spotlight that I've been investing into. Just how I have see things.

[TMagpie]

I'm finally back from GP Vegas. I day 2'ed my first Legacy GP with my list, which I've been putting in a lot of hours, and it feels good to be rewarded. Went 6-3 Day 1. Went 2-3-1 in Day 2. I'll upload my tournament report after Its been edited out by my sponsor. But here's the list that I piloted.

4x Mother of Runes
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Bird of Paradise
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scryb Ranger
4x Knight of the Reqliary
2x Thalia, Heretical Cathar
1x Courser of Kruphix

4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sylvan Library

4x Wasteland
4x Windswepth Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Maze of Ith
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor

SB:
2x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution
2x Sanctum Prelate
2x Ehtersworn Canonist
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Blessed Alliance
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Toxic Deluge

Some notable conclusions:
1.) I don't like where Sanctum Prelate is right now. I just feel that its just too slow to answer the threats that need to be answer. I believe the reason the why it works in Death and Taxes is because they are running Recruiter to find it. Unless the Maverick List is running that package, I don't think we need Prelate. I've boarded it in against Storm, and that was it.
2.) Maze and Ith + Blessed Alliance. I've won many games with this interaction. Against Delver, Maze the Anger, and Alliance the TNM. Against Reanimator, any creature can go away. Blessed Alliance, IMO, should be at least 1x in sideboard if the list is running Maze. It's a versatile card that can be brought into many match-ups (Burn, Delver, Reanimator, Deathblade, Lands, Death and Taxes). Even if you are not sacrificing a creature, gaining 4 life and untapping Mom and Knights are strong plays.

I'm going to try to go all out on this report, because i feel that I have a lot of advice to give. I've been on this deck extensively for over a year now and I feel that I'm not getting the spotlight that I've been investing into. Just how I have see things.

I hate to break it to you, but Maze does not remove creatures from combat. It untaps the creature and prevents the combat damage dealt to and dealt by the creature. I do believe that Blessed Alliance is a great magic card in Maverick. It just doesn't combo with Maze since they can just sac what you untap.

[Thunderknight]

I hate to break it to you, but Maze does not remove creatures from combat. It untaps the creature and prevents the combat damage dealt to and dealt by the creature. I do believe that Blessed Alliance is a great magic card in Maverick. It just doesn't combo with Maze since they can just sac what you untap.

Well I guess my opponents were really dumb then.

[TMagpie]

Well I guess my opponents were really dumb then.

Hey, its not your job to play for them :)

just word of warning for if you get to a big event.