Sylvan Plug (or whatever splashed Green stompy)

[Bosque]

Looks fun, but I'm not seeing tools here to resist most combo decks in a meaningful way. An affordable ETB discard effect on an enchantment would be useful (something like 2 CMC Duress stapled to an enchantment), but I can't find anything on gatherer. Curious how your testing goes though.

[Dr_D]

Looks fun, but I'm not seeing tools here to resist most combo decks in a meaningful way. An affordable ETB discard effect on an enchantment would be useful (something like 2 CMC Duress stapled to an enchantment), but I can't find anything on gatherer. Curious how your testing goes though.

Brain Maggot?

[Memories of the Time]

Brain Maggot?

I think that Bosque would refer to a combo with Chimera.

Anyway, i'm thinking about Chimera... it's really nice and cool, but probably TNN is better being the perfect bearer of Cartouches. Right now i'm playing 3 TNN and 2 Chimera, but probably 4 TNN and 0 chimera is the right split, sadly. First of all, TNN it's a way more reliable beater, obv

edit: playing 3-4 trinisphere is huge in this meta - i mean, right now- and vs S&T we have 4 permanent edicts for Show. Combo isn't a bad MU

[Bosque]

I think that Bosque would refer to a combo with Chimera.

Yep, Brain Maggot just gives it back to them on our upkeep (with Chimera) which is less than ideal. If Chimera's ability becomes an upside rather than a downside, it's a cute engine to draw cards with Argothian Enchantress and have an affordable recyclable effect every turn such as killing creatures, drawing cards, setting up our draws, etc.

But without a discard effect, I feel that engine then becomes a liability in matches where Trial of Ambition is blank, and the deck will simply die to combo. Yes, I'm sure Trinisphere and sideboard Thoughtseize will help, but the beater plan goes out the window entirely and I think the Trial/Cartouche combination is simply too expensive and not powerful enough to be worth it even with TNN instead of Chimera.

[nimkee]

New spoiler alert, crucible of worlds on a green kird ape. Could give this deck some game with Titania Gitrog tracker wasteland and or ghost quarter

Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk

[Barook]

Copied from the HOU thread:

The more I think about it, the more I like the interaction between Ramunap Excavator and Azusa. Now throw in 4x Tireless Tracker and the whole thing gets alot sillier. E.g. with 2x City of Traitors, you can generate 6 mana and 3 clue tokens, aka a free Ancestral Recall every turn while pumping up Tracker. Between Dryad Arbor, fetchlands and various GSZ targets, Smuggler's Copter might be interesting, too. It filters excess lockpieces/mana accelerants or dumps lands into the GY to be played by Excavator afterwards.

It would probably be alot like Sylvan Plug. The core of the deck would probably look like this

- GSZ
- Excavator
- Azusa
- Tireless Tracker
- various GSZ utility targets (Dryad Arbor, DRS, Scavenging Ooze, Reclamation Sage, etc.)
- Thought-Knot Seer (maybe; not GSZ-able, but disruption on a solid body)
- Smuggler's Copter (maybe)

- CotV
- Trinisphere

- ESG
- Moxen, either Diamond and/or Chrome

- other stuff like maybe Jitte, Sylvan Library, etc.
- and of course the lands

The Gitrog Monster would probably fit the land recursion shell as the big finisher better than Titania, who is easier to use hose.

Walking Ballista would probably also a good idea to make use of the excess mana.

If possible, I want to stay away from casting costs since consistency is already our worst enemy. No need to make things worse. Splashes are a possibility. Either black for AD, Gitrog and SB mass removal, or white for KotR, Armageddon, Oblivion Ring and the likes.

Between Jitte and Ballista, the deck should have passable crowd control for swarms. However, I'm concerned about dealing with fatties.

Meren of Clan Nel Toth revival ability to the battlefield isn't optional, right? Otherwise, it would an interesting combo with Ballista for recurring shoot outs.

[Megadeus]

Im contemplating a list that eschews chalice in favor of STP and Exploration plus plays Knight and Geddons. More a Maverick Stompy style build almost

[Barook]

Im contemplating a list that eschews chalice in favor of STP and Exploration plus plays Knight and Geddons. More a Maverick Stompy style build almost

No Chalice also opens you up for Crop Rotation (and the DD/Stage combo). That probably weakens your combo match-up quite a bit, though.

[Megadeus]

Agreed Barook. Which is why I'd be adding Thalia. Here was my original quick list (sans manabase)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Smugglers Copter
3 Excavator
4 Mox Diamond
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Armageddon
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vinecrasher Centaur

Dunno if Exploration is truly worth it unfortunately. But I really really want to find room.

[P210]

Removing Chalice of the Void will turn the deck into Maverick with Mox Diamond I think, which already exists in certain forms.

I'm asking myself if a Sylvan Stompy version with Ramunap Excavator should go a more traditional stompy route with Trinisphere and perhaps Choke with a sol-land heavy manabase and a Green Sun's Zenith toolbox. Or replace the spheres with 4-8 Talias and try a Maverick Stompy route with more color producing lands in the mana base...?

[Barook]

I'm aware that it's a double-edged sword, but what about Anvil of Bogardan? Castable with Sol lands, helps to filter our draws and generates CA with Excavator.

The downside is that it helps our opponents as well - but we could turn it to our advantage by running 1-2 Leovolds as GSZ targets (and maybe hardcast with Mox Diamond/DRS). Suddenly, our opponents are quickly running out of action since they can only draw one/discard one during their draw step, limiting their actions to instant speed.

[apple713]

I'm aware that it's a double-edged sword, but what about Anvil of Bogardan? Castable with Sol lands, helps to filter our draws and generates CA with Excavator.

The downside is that it helps our opponents as well - but we could turn it to our advantage by running 1-2 Leovolds as GSZ targets (and maybe hardcast with Mox Diamond/DRS). Suddenly, our opponents are quickly running out of action since they can only draw one/discard one during their draw step, limiting their actions to instant speed.

I like this idea ALOT. However, its gonna hurt you so bad when u play against combo decks, reanimator, lands, and dredge. It SHOULD come down after leovold is out if ever.

[Barook]

I like this idea ALOT. However, its gonna hurt you so bad when u play against combo decks, reanimator, lands, and dredge. It SHOULD come down after leovold is out if ever.

It shouldn't be a turn 1 play against an unknown opponent, that's for sure. Whether or not it's better than Copter (which is also still up to debate if that is even good) can only be answered with playtesting.

I might put together a list next weekend when I have more time and do some testing on Cockatrice. There are alot of cards that could go in, but we're limited to 60 cards. Figuring out the right number of each card is going to be a pain in the ass as there are alot of cool interactions. E.g. would the loot cards also interact favorably with Grove/Punishing Fire. But I think G/b should be the main focus of the deck, as it provides is with DRS activations (--> GSZ-able), AD and potential sweepers.

Food for thought:
In theory, we could delve deeper into the Anvil plan by going for a heavier white splash, adding Spirit of the Labyrinth into the mix (while keeping GSZ-able Leovolds). Sadly, Spirit is symmetrical, so we would have to find a way to utilize the GY better to break parity. Geier Reach Sanitarium and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea could help to break said parity.

Edit: How does Library interact with Anvil? Combo or nonbo?

Edit #2: Screwing a bit around with some cards in goldfishing. Hard to say how good it is in real play since removal/counters exist, but the holy trinity of Excavator/Azusa/Tracker gets degenerate rather quickly. But even the main combo of Excavator + Azusa is established rather quickly thanks to GSZ and does silly things with Wastelands and City of Traitors. I do think this core is worth testing as it seems quite promising.

Edit #3: I'm still trimming cards to come down to 60 cards in my testbed - and stuff like Jitte isn't even included yet. The deckspace is incredible tight and you want answers to various stuff to not be a one-trick pony that gets steamrolled by other decks. But you want also access to as many copies of the holy trinity as possible. It dawned to me that Living Wish might be what the deck needs - can fetch holy trinity members, utility lands (Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, etc) and utility creatures (Revoker, Thought-Knot Seer, etc.). Sounds very promising on paper - a combination of GSZ + Living Wish should provide alot of consistency even without cantrips. More on that later once I'm done testing, but I encourage you to do some testing as well.

[P210]

It shouldn't be a turn 1 play against an unknown opponent, that's for sure. Whether or not it's better than Copter (which is also still up to debate if that is even good) can only be answered with playtesting.

Edit #3: I'm still trimming cards to come down to 60 cards in my testbed - and stuff like Jitte isn't even included yet. The deckspace is incredible tight and you want answers to various stuff to not be a one-trick pony that gets steamrolled by other decks. But you want also access to as many copies of the holy trinity as possible. It dawned to me that Living Wish might be what the deck needs - can fetch holy trinity members, utility lands (Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, Karakas, Bojuka Bog, etc) and utility creatures (Revoker, Thought-Knot Seer, etc.). Sounds very promising on paper - a combination of GSZ + Living Wish should provide alot of consistency even without cantrips. More on that later once I'm done testing, but I encourage you to do some testing as well.

Mh, Anvil with Leovold could be fun, but for me it looks way too complicated to set up.
As a Stompy deck, I think the deck should focus on a fast Chalice of the Void / Trinisphere and then try to win as fast as possible, while doing shenanigans with Excavator, Azusa and Tracker. Ergo lock down the opponent and generate value. The clues from Tireless Tracker should draw enough cards while the deck gains some consistensy through Green Sun's Zenith.
I really like the idea of Living Wish since it finds important lands in addition to a non-green creature toolbox. My initial thought was to play a Knight of the Reliquary as zenith target, to tutor for a lands toolbox, but having some utility lands in the sideboard allows us to keep the green count high in the maindeck.

[Barook]

Mh, Anvil with Leovold could be fun, but for me it looks way too complicated to set up.
As a Stompy deck, I think the deck should focus on a fast Chalice of the Void / Trinisphere and then try to win as fast as possible, while doing shenanigans with Excavator, Azusa and Tracker. Ergo lock down the opponent and generate value. The clues from Tireless Tracker should draw enough cards while the deck gains some consistensy through Green Sun's Zenith.
I really like the idea of Living Wish since it finds important lands in addition to a non-green creature toolbox. My initial thought was to play a Knight of the Reliquary as zenith target, to tutor for a lands toolbox, but having some utility lands in the sideboard allows us to keep the green count high in the maindeck.

My main concern with Anvil is that it might help your opponents find what they need. And since our main goal is locking them out, giving them a way to filter cards might be bad.

Here's a first, rough draw of what I call "Trinity Stompy" (Trinisphere, Holy Trinity made of 3 drops, etc. ):

Maindeck: 60 cards
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
3 Ramunap Excavator
3 Tireless Tracker

2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Living Wish

Sideboard: 12/15
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Minister of Pain
1 Walking Ballista
1 Thragtusk
1 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 open slots

Some notes:
- I ran a 4/1 Wasteland/GQ split before, but I do like the new 3/2 split with access to SB Wastelands/GQs alot. GQ can also help fetch basic forests, which is pretty good with Excavator in play.
- The deck had 64 cards before and I came to the conclusion to cut ESG. Whether or not it's the correct call to cut it, only testing can show. But it seemed like the least painful cut.
- Forests/Fetchlands distribution isn't finished yet.
- More MD lifegain card probably wouldn't hurt. Between Ancient Tomb, rapid fetchland activations when the CoW combo is up and Library, you could burn through your life pretty fast. Courser might have potential, but the might be problematic.
- As the deck isn't tested against actual players yet, it's hard to say if the deck needs more/better wincons.
- The SB is just some good stuff thrown together.

[pettdan]

Barook, you are testing a radically new version of the deck. I would start with old lists and modify those, so I guess my comments are based on that, maybe they'll be useful comments/questions and maybe I'm stuck with the previous approach. I think I used to play like 3 Moxes and 3 Tombs, I think you'll end up cutting the cities.

Azusa does nothing on an empty board and may be slight overkill if you're already in a position where you can replay lands. I would start testing with one copy, GSZ is in the deck. Probably dropping it eventually because it dies to everything and does not matter on the battlefield. But maybe I'm wrong and it will be the best card of the deck..

T1 Deathrite from the opponent is bad news, both Toxic Deluge and Abrupt Decay would be useful.

I would try to add Thragtusk or Courser, like you say you need lifegain. Maybe there is some even better alternative.

I liked Knight of the Reliquary and Titania, Protector of Argoth, a lot in this deck and I would try to add them.

[Barook]

Barook, you are testing a radically new version of the deck. I would start with old lists and modify those, so I guess my comments are based on that, maybe they'll be useful comments/questions and maybe I'm stuck with the previous approach. I think I used to play like 3 Moxes and 3 Tombs, I think you'll end up cutting the cities.

Azusa does nothing on an empty board and may be slight overkill if you're already in a position where you can replay lands. I would start testing with one copy, GSZ is in the deck. Probably dropping it eventually because it dies to everything and does not matter on the battlefield. But maybe I'm wrong and it will be the best card of the deck..

T1 Deathrite from the opponent is bad news, both Toxic Deluge and Abrupt Decay would be useful.

I would try to add Thragtusk or Courser, like you say you need lifegain. Maybe there is some even better alternative.

I liked Knight of the Reliquary and Titania, Protector of Argoth, a lot in this deck and I would try to add them.

It's hard to compare it to old lists since they don't have access to the Excavator and this deck is built around it. Mox Diamond and especially City become alot better with it. City is pretty silly with Excavator/Azusa up and can generate lots of mana. The amount of cities is debatable, but I don't think a complete cut is necessary.

Azusa might be useless on her own, but right now, the deck has 11 (!) ways to find her combo partner. And the combo is your bread & butter, often using tripple Wasteland/GQ as early as T3 (or T4 at the latest), while often having lockpieces up, too. That's game over for many decks as they can't play Magic from that point on onwards. Whether 3 copies are too many with Living Wish as additional tutor is a subject to testing. I originally started out with one copy as GSZ-target and that was definitely not enough. Courser would give her another combo partner (which is also great with Library).

I'm well aware how problematic DRS is going to be for the strategy. Still looking for better ways to handle it since Deluge isn't compatible with the deck.

With more ways to find Tracker, it might be okay to go down to two in the MD and replace one copy with KotR. Between Mox, fetches and Savannah, even hardcasting one shouldn't be out of question. With KotR as additional land tutor, it might be okay to replace one GQ with a Karakas, giving the deck more resilience against legends. White also opens up potential Living Wish targets such as Canonist and Containment Priest. Horizon Canopy is an option, but the additional life loss might be too much. Although 3x ": Draw a card" sounds pretty sexy with the combo up.

I do want a big tutor target as another finisher. While Titania has awesome synergy with the deck (her being in play while the CoW combo is active should be game-winning right on the spot), I have concerns regarding the additional dependancy on the GY. Definitely on my "To-Do"-list.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Zombie]

You could just fight the DRS.

[Barook]

You could just fight the DRS.

?



@pettdan. I'm gonna do some goldfishing witht he following changes to see what changes might be good:
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas
1 Bayou
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest

4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
3 Ramunap Excavator
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

1 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Living Wish

Sideboard: 14/15
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Minister of Pain
1 Walking Ballista
1 Thragtusk
1 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 open slot

[MD.Ghost]

@Barook nice idea, but i would first try to adjust S.Plug proven stuff too. Simply add Ramunap Excavator and try if it still beats the meta.

My adjusted list would like:

// 60 Maindeck

// 9 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Mox Diamond

// 13 Creature
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Centaur Vinecrasher
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Shriekmaw
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Ramunap Excavator

// 5 Enchantment
3 Sylvan Library
2 Choke

// 3 Instant
3 Abrupt Decay

// 24 Land
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Karakas

// 6 Sorcery
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Toxic Deluge


// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
SB: 1 Kalonian Hydra
SB: 1 Spike Weaver
SB: 1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Ghost Quarter
SB: 2 Massacre

In this shell you keep all the good stuff that should also work against new meta (you simply want sweepers vs DnT, Elves, Grixis and toxic deluge can also work vs Combo). Knights, Titania, Vinecrasher for some bombs and Meren to get them back (and do some stuff with Shriekmaw, Pridemage etc.) Since Choke isn't so hot anymore i cutted them down and i can also see swap with Sideboard cards or +1 Decay +1 Toxic etc. For more lifegain i can also see Siege Rhino over Vinecrasher but i like "trample" to pass stuff like TNN so i want at least one creature that trumps that nasty roadblock.

@Barooks List:
i will try to find some time to test it, i see some potential but as others already mentioned some games might be work awesome and some you topdeck an army off usless "non beater" creatures, moxen and living wish for non land will only shine if you get the ramp work or you end up to waste 2 turns etc. With the amount of colorless lands TKS should be main as a solid disruption peace and even Walking Ballista is really good with mana ramp and can quickly be a >2:1 card.