Well, it really becomes a Gamble then, lol...because you might discard it. Unless you have access to another copy of Past in Flames its a risk that could give you disappointment. If you have no cards in hand it automatically gets discarded; the best part about Gamble > PiF is that it doesn't matter if its in hand or in graveyard, just one mana difference.Originally Posted by mistercakes
I don't think its SSG vs Desperate, I think we need some number of both. I like Desperate better, for all your reasons, but the need for SSG is definitely still there. I cut down to 2, but those 2 are still pretty important (in all non-HUF situations really.)
I'll keep the Tendrils comment in mind when testing against Lands. I haven't tested that matchup yet, but it makes perfect sense when they can keep you off your combo for several turns (while nailing you with a 20/20 lol.)
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
tendrils is good vs everything :(
the gamble is in there for randomness without PIF but it's almost always great with a PIF...or to find a PIF.
-rob
Yes...as long as you can cast it!
For now, HUF is enough randomness for me. It's about all I can handle, lol.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I can honestly say I've never struggled casting tendrils. Have you played a lot of games with it?
-rob
A few, maybe 5. In the game (only 1 so far where I've killed with tendrils) it was easy, I drew into a Manamorphose from a GitProbe with Burning Wish in hand and a storm count of 8. That kill was only made possible by casting a Manamorphose earlier in the chain, which drew me into that BW. I had EtW in my hand as the plan, and it just worked out to BW>Tendrils. I definitely need practice to see the lines better, because a Tendrils kill is actually (theoretically) the easiest by only having a 9 storm count. Most of my storm experience comes from modern, which leans on Gifts but isn't really that complicated. Your repetitions with the deck must outnumber mine by 100+ I'm guessing.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
-rob
Nice, thanks!
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Nice games! I see now how Reforge really fuels PiF. Are you doing 4x RtS maindeck or are you sticking one in the SB? I didn't catch what you Gamble-d for in the second video, I think it was Burning Wish. The game played out too fast for me to see.
It's amazing how the deck can just slog through 1-2 counterspells (they actually just add to storm count!) All of the games demonstrated what a resolved Ruby Medallion can do, which is fuel broken turns. How often do you mulligan when you have no Medalions?
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Its not a determining factor for me, but the gamble can help find them.
Trying some other cards too. Will post later when I get some data.
-rob
Greetings everyone.
I saw this thread and immediately fell in love. I want to try to brew my own bad version of this deck, so here's my attempt!
Main:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mountain
4 Taiga (To cast Hull Breach out of SB without relying on Manamorphose or Lotus Petal)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
4 Manamorphose
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Burning Wish
3 Reforge the Soul
3 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Gamble
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
1 Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
3 Defense Grid (anti counterspell)
1 Cave-In
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Grapeshot
4 Hull Breach (probably side in 3, keep the 4th as wish target)
1 Past in Flames
1 Pyroclasm
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
100% untested. Probably going to tweak before running it at a local weekly. Thoughts?
Read the thread, it will tell you where mistercakes and I are both at for lists. I am basically turbo-warrens where mistercakes has a better past-in-flames plan which kills with tendrils or grapeshot. Both decks can do both, the focus is just a little different.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I might have to give in to the defense grids again maindeck. It's really rough playing them game 1 vs a deck that isn't affected by them, but I've lost too many games to double fow + flusterstorm; or counterspell + fow.
While I do like desperate ritual, I think Simian Spirit Guide is better for the deck. Having access to initial Red mana is very important.
I still need to tinker a lot with the lists, but many are good in their own right. Without the blue consistency spells I think you need to take it as it is.
I'm not sure what hull breach is adding that you want a 4x. If you're going to run 4 taiga it does open yourself up to some weird wasteland draws. I'd probably fit in some autumn's veils.
I could even get behind running a loam since there's gamble and games vs blue can go long.
-rob
I considered Hull Breach for a Burning Wishable enchantment removal. Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Void, and even Rest in Peace are all played in my meta, so I wanted an out for those. I should rework some numbers and probably lower the number of Hull Breaches, but I tuink we NEED some sort of enchantment removal if we're going to cover our bases.
I can honestly say that enchantments are not a big problem for this deck. Just make goblins if leyline if Sanctity. Same goes for leyline of the void. I've probably played about 100 matches and haven't lost to any of those 3 cards yet.
What the deck struggles against is more unfair decks winning faster or when the fair decks have a clock and 2-3 hard counters (not daze or pierce).
-rob
After I lost my favorite deck (Quinn) with the Top ban, I had been looking for something else that I'd want to play. This deck seems a ton of fun and not very expensive.
How many Chandras are people running now? I've had mixed experiences with it when testing. It's annoying to draw when I'm trying to storm, but occasionally it can buy me a lot of time when I'm not able to combo fast enough.
Seems like people have abandoned Moon effects. Are they just not good enough in the deck?
It's not necessary to run any, I like at least 1 as a random out to Leovold or other weird cards.
I'm going to test running some non-zero amounts of Helm of Awakening again, as I never really fleshed those builds out with more than 14 lands.
Will keep updating as I get some games in, but the thought is if I can get a rock out, then cards that are normally low impact (in particular act on impulse) can force some counter magic, where it normally might not if you have to pay the full 3.
Came across this one while goldfishing:
Mountain, rite of flame, rite of flame, seething song, manamorphose, burning wish, past in flames.
Finished the latest league. 2-3. Lost to blue deck blue deck, beat ANT beat rock, lost to blue deck.
This version didn't have any defense grids. Next version will go back to one of my original builds but modified a few cards.
Last edited by mistercakes; 08-05-2017 at 11:38 AM.
-rob
Just bought a set of Ruby Medallions on TCGPlayer. They will not show up in time for this weeks local, but there is a Dual Land event coming up at my LGS. Usually people expect me to play Dragon Stompy, so this will be a curveball for them.
Main:
4 Ancient Tomb
12 Mountain
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Rite of Flame
4 Manamorphose
3 Tormenting Voice
4 Burning Wish
3 Reforge the Soul
3 Hazoret's Undying Fury
2 Gamble
3 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void (lot of Reanimator at lgs)
3 Defense Grid (counterspells)
1 Cave-In
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Grapeshot
1 Past in Flames
1 Hazoret's Undying Fury
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Tendrils of Agony
Also, I have a friend who has a set of LEDs that he is willing to allow me to use. He thinks its for a different deck. Should I try them in this?
Here's my list im going to test again.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/689113#paper
Vieko's led lists are a bit closer to an all in combo deck. This one instead just tries to hurl massive threats over and over again until 1 squeezes through.
Still considering the 4th probe over the 3rd hazoret's. A Chandra could also be there.
The deck is pretty malleable. Just make sure you are comfortable with whatever build you decide to play.
I think this is probably the safest version to play. The city of traitors are just being tested. So you can run 4 tomb and another mountain or 4 tomb and a crystal vein if CoT isn't accessible to you.
Your sb seems good, I'm not sure if I'm sold on fiery confluence. I've been running some non-zero number of rending volleys for Leovold /canonist/Thalia /sanctum prelate.
Latest edit : did some more goldfishing and I think I'll test a list that isn't so hellbent on getting lucky with hazoret's. It can win games quite easily with a good flip, but need to get some data on a build that is playing a little more conservative. Running 4 AoI and 2 Chandra instead of 3 AoI and 3 Hazoret's.
Went 3-2 in league. Not bad.
Might try 3 magma jets over 1 probe and 2 Chandra. This might remove some sb strain and improve draws.
Last edited by mistercakes; 08-06-2017 at 12:37 PM.
-rob
@mistercakes
Just put your list together and ran a league went 3-2. I played vs Vieko a few weeks back and wondered what this deck was. Super interesting.
I beat ANT, Grixis Delver, Lands,
Lost to Bant Deathblade and TES.
Vs Deathblade, he had it all, dazes, forces, wasteland for tomb etc.
vs TES, he ripped like a champ after he emptied and drew Therapy. I was going to go off on my T2.
Lands was a free win even through Leyline of the Void. Just had to storm harder to like 17 or so before generating enough mana.
Grixis Delver, I managed to win on T3 through Pyro/Therapy+Force of will
vs ANT, he misclicked his flusterstorm on my Reforge the Soul and he flustered himself. I wheeled 7 and easily tendrils
Solnox on MTGO
Miracles is a good matchup for depths. Quote me on this
Griselbrand is not an interesting creature.
Dread it. Run from it. Marit Lage still arrives
That's great news. Did you run the version I posted with 2 Chandra and 3 probe, or 2 probe and 3 magma jet?
Can you post the 75 on here? I'm quite sloppy with that and I'm always updating my link via that goldfish link. Hard to keep track.
-rob
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