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Went 3-0 in our small monthly FNM.
Round 1: Death & Taxes
Game 1: I win the die roll and make 14 goblins on turn 2
Game 2: I struggle to find enough rituals to go off (1 short) and he gets a mom and Thalia into play after he vials in...Sin Collector, stripping away a Rite of Flame. I scoop it up, knowing I'll die to weenie beats before I can piece together a win.
Game 3: He makes a turn 2 Thalia and I Rending Volley it on his end step, then proceed to Ad Nauseam into a Tendrils kill the next turn
1-0
Round 3: BG Rock
Game 1: He wins the die roll and plays a turn 1 Deathrite into turn 2 Bob. I Tendrils him on my turn 2
Game 2: He plays Deathrite and passes. I assume the worst he can do is Hymn me, so I Ponder (instead of casting Duress), leaving an Infernal Tutor and LED on top of my deck so I can Probe and go off on my next turn. He plays a turn 2 Null Rod and Chalice on zero, completely mucking up the line I had set up. I eventually succumb to Bob/Goyf beats.
Game 3: Land, go. Play Brainstorm on his end-step and then make 12-14 goblins on my turn 2.
2-0
Round 3: Food Chain
Game 1: I win the die roll, play Ponder and pass. He plays a Deathrite. I proceed to cast Dark Ritual. Resolves. Then I Duress him, taking his only Force and then cast an LED, 2 more Dark Rituals and Infernal Tutor into Ad Nauseam for the win.
Game 2: He grinds me out with Food Chain and Griffin beats, while blocking enough of my (initially 12) goblins to stay alive.
Game 3: I main-phase Brainstorm and pass. He draws (mulled to 5), doesn't play a land, and passes. I cast a turn 2 Defense Grid, which eats a Force. He finds a land and casts Deathrite. I cast my 2nd Defense Grid on turn 3 and then Duress away his Food Chain in hand (he had the full combo in hand). He Brainstorms, fetches and Brainstorms again, then passes it back to me. Knowing the coast is clear because of Defense Grid, I proceed to Ad Nauseam into Tendrils for the win.
Even though it was a small tournament, the deck feels really solid, at times even unstoppable (even though I only played one Force deck).
Here is the list I played (fairly stock):
Sorcery (27)
4x Burning Wish
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
1x Empty the Warrens
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Ponder
4x Rite of Flame
Instant (9)
1x Ad Nauseam
4x Brainstorm
4x Dark Ritual
Land (13)
1x Badlands
2x Bloodstained Mire
1x Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Swamp
1x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
Artifact (11)
3x Chrome Mox
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
Sideboard
1x Consign / Oblivion
1x Dark Petition
2x Defense Grid
2x Echoing Truth
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Grapeshot
1x Massacre
1x Meltdown
1x Past in Flames
2x Rending Volley
1x Telemin Performance
1x Tendrils of Agony
Last edited by 8bit9mm; 08-01-2017 at 03:04 PM.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...nge-2017-07-31
Second place (again).
Congrats on the finish. How are the new sideboard cards treating you? I'm seeing:Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
-2 Rending Volley
-1 By Force/Meltdown
+1 Pyroclasm
+2 Surgical Extraction
Combining my two of my favorite things: Fantasy Baseball and Magic: the Gathering! http://theepicstorm.com/storm-data-comparison/
The results for on the draw win % are really interesting.
If I were funding this science experiment, I would love to see a sample of games where you only played on the draw. Because a 10% increase in win% might just be worth it.
So I got third at my local shop with this list last week, talking points are bolded.
MD
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Swamp
SB
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grape Shot
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Past in Flames
1 Dark Petition
1 Consign/Oblivion
1 By Force
1 Death Mark
1 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy
2 Rending Volley
2 Echoing Truth
I've been wanting to bring Diminishing Returns back for a couple of reasons. First, I wanted a faster win condition vs non blue decks, as I've seen a lot of Goblins hate post-board from decks like The Rock and Aggro Loam and the other win conditions are just too slow. Second, vs Dredge they're often able to outrace your Goblins with their board anyway. Third, I've lost a lot of games vs BR Reanimator by Telemin Performance pulling a Chancellor of the Annex, so I decided to start casting Diminishing Returns against them instead and was really happy with the results because I could consistently win a turn faster. Fourth, Burn and UR are popular decks, Ad Nauseam is a liability against them and Goblins are a predictable out, so Diminishing Returns is a substitute MD storm engine in matches that pressure your life total. Fifth, vs decks with Stifle you're often stuck in situations where you Gitaxian Probe, see the Stifle and can't cast Burning Wish into Goblins when you could have cast Diminishing Returns instead. Sixth, vs decks with discard playing your Lion's Eye Diamond onto the board and then top decking a Burning Wish into Diminishing Returns is an out, and casting Diminishing Returns vs UB decks has a greater marginal utility because they play discard instead of counters. Seventh, vs Storm and Lands it's a fast, non Goblin win condition that doesn't lose by default because they SBed in a Xantid Swarm or Faerie Macabre. Eighth, Land, Chrome Mox -> Burning Wish for Diminishing Returns and pass is a line I've missed, as Diminishing Returns is really the only threat you can wish for and pass with to cast next turn efficiently/quickly.
In short, I think Diminishing Returns got a bad reputation after we cut Silence and it's a better win condition now than it has been for in a long time. The card has a lot of utility vs the meta, and even tho' Diminishing Returns isn't a protected kill vs control anymore sometimes you just have to gamble when nothing else will do.
Thanks to Diminishing Returns we still have a win condition for the Lands and Storm match up while also having a faster win condition vs B/r Reanimator as well.
Massacre has been pissing me off vs Death&Taxes, either wishing for removal is too slow regardless or they only play non-basic lands and Aether Vial so it's not even an option. Deathmark, while slower than Massacre and vulnerable to Mother of Runes, at least kills Leovold, Emissary of Trest and Gaddok Teeg and is SBeable.
no problem im in the mood to elaborate...
I really would like to play more fetches in order to make BS better, I really would. but by playing 8 fetches I would need to play 13 lands, with only 12 lands and if i play a FetchWhichShouldBeGemstone and fetch for a land then i have less lands in deck, which is a huge problem. I also would like to play 13 lands - sure I would. but the problem again is that by playing 13 lands I would need to take out a B.W. or a C.M. or a Disruption spell - likely C.T. and I just would play a worse TES deck by reducing any number of these cards.
On the other hand and looking at how I play B.S. well I play it more often than not a) in the combo turn (a.1) Natural Storm a.2)Find the piece ) or b)when i need to protect spells or c) when I am going to combo on next turn and sure - d) when i need to sufle away cards - this last scenario - is likely the less often for me among the others i exposed and by doing this - i would expect to combo in the next turn - i mean B.S. fetch and sufle away and EoT.
Unqely for this last scenario playing 8 fetches is better than playing 4, then I recognize that with 8 fetches you take the most when suffling away cards scenario. BUT uniquely in this snceario. the most important question is: Is this scenario worth for me to take out 1 C.T. or 1B.W. or 1C.M. from main and make my manabase less versatile in 1st games? For me the answer is no. I mean I already have 4 fetches and have already ponder and even I.T. If i really want to sufle away, but the fact is that the scenario of sufling away with B.S. is not how I take the most from B.S.
In TES the best B.S. is the one that you finally don't need to play or imprint on C.M. This is my opinion.
Dear Lem.
Yes - you tested Wish+CR and was an error. I told you.
you tested MB PIF+RoF and was an error. I told you.
Mox Diamonds, SolLands is an error. I tell you.
2 RoF was an error. I told you.
Less than 3 C.M. was an error. I told you.
Less than 4 I.T. Main was an error. I told you.
Less than 1 EtW main was an error. I told you.
etc, etc, was an error. I told you.
Now looking at the latest Mr. B. list I find some sense.... at least! great! Now you play 3C.M. 6 Disruption, 10 Threats, No Main C.Rit, No Main PiF, Yes EtW!!!! YES you start to have a litle sense!!!
I find trivial: the important aspects are reasoning & metagame context
FALSE - the parameters - i love this word! - I expose are ALWAYS in a context - i mean always. and I always put reasoing behind things i say, I said inifnite times I would like to play 8 fetches The hell I even tried a 61 cards deck because of this. I could go like Jesus Crist to the Hills and talk about B.S., and sure - fetches, the hell I just play 4 less feches than you - i uniquely gets a litle worse the suffle effect of B.S., still is a great card for me!
I'll ellaborate answers a litle about your phrases:
I could host a 3h twitch show solely talking about relations/goals of several fetch/dual/basic configs in TES based on various metagame structures.
I really dont plan to have more than 2-3 lands in play? I don't plan to have a Island among these ones?
We could stretch it further by expanding the topic to Shuffle-effects required for Ponder/Brainstorm.
As I explained before to R.D. well sure by playing 8 feches you get better sufle effects, than by playing 4, Is that all? I believe B.S. is still a powerfull card even if I play half of fecthes less. The question is: Will you not play B.S. in a TES deck that DOES NOT PLAY Fetches at all? my answer is NO. and the reasons for playing 12 lands 4 fetches vs 13lands 8 fetches I gave you loooots of reasons as you say for freaking years - and i believe we should stop this. The main reasons are the ones i again stated to R.D.
I could outline to which great effect you can manipulate the manaflow with Fetchlands, cantrips and both thinning out the deck ON DEMAND or just use them to build your manabase while being safe from Wastelands.
Sure it seems you are talking about Oldmiracles with senseis... or ANT... you ponder, than B.S. fetch ponder and B.S. and then Ponder and Fetch! and then, at some day, you win. I just Ponder, Duress, C.T., wait, wait, B.S. Win - sure all this at its simplest! The hell I feel flooded when playing 13 lands the old days i played them...
I seem to don't mind wastelands in RUG, BUR, Lands or watevr... - in deed i really dont understand how you fetch for island with 13 lands and are able to go on the game... I dont think I'll reach a day where I play Island base...
thinnin the deck on demand is good, but is as good as you seem to think? I mean TES is the MOST redundant deck you could play in Legacy, and fetching a land just thins the deck 1 F*** Less Land!! ou yeah! I have my deck thinned by playing the most versatile lands/no lands available man.
Lem, I promise you by my side I wont answer and discuss 12 vs 13 lands and 8fetches vs 4fetches topic anymore, I'm too tired about this... you get good results great! i get good results great! no problem then!
Changing the Topic:
@F.Fortune:
From times to times I put back D.Returns (shhh dont tell to anybody...). Bribery has been an staple for me since years... I just love that card and agree to the reasoning you provided and sure could just add more...
One thing to note is the following - sure it is a corner case scenario - but TES is feeded from multiple of those! S.E to FoW makes even D.R. better.
I asked before and noone answered. but do you find D.P. still worth? becasue since I put it in the side, I uniquely played it for +2 Gobs tokens and just 1 A.N. kill through 9 mana... I really would like to have more feedback from other players related this... maybe its because i play brybery from its inception...
I dont think D.R. should in my case replace Bribery or yours T.P. (i hate this card) Brybery is infinitely better than D.R. vs BR Reanimator. (maybe not better than T.P....)
I have my side quite comprissed... but I've been thinking in taking out D.P. for Super D.R....
I have to recognize that the latest Mr. B. article was great.... in deed shocking... does this mean that I Should start to be on the draw vs Blue decks? there is so many case scenarios to analyze to determine this... like:
- will you expect a turn 2 hatebear? How many of those do you expect to face in 2nd/3rd game?
- did you sided in anti hatebear? how many?
- did you side out C.M. how many?
- etc.
The fact that you can alterate - somehow - to be on the play or on the draw because of C.M. maybe is what diffierentiates that percentage from ANT...dont know...
My Parfait Build
My Psychatog Build
Yes, I am advanced and you know it...
Suggestion: Play Magic as a Hobby. Competitiveness is uniquely usefull in this Era and just to evolve the human being to a certain extent...
If you want to play the Fetchland manabase with only 12 lands then you can cut the 8th fetchland for the 7th discard, I don't see why 4 Polluted Delta, 3 Bloodstained Mire, 2 Underground Sea, 2 Volcanic Island and 1 Swamp wouldn't be playable. If you don't like the Swamp then you can play 4 Flooded Strand, 3 Misty Rainforest, 3 Underground Sea, 2 Volcanic Island and more convincingly bluff Force of Will and Daze as well. I know 6 discard in the MD and 2 discard in the SB "feels bad man," and I would love to play 7 discard in the MD and 1 discard in the SB just to free up the SB space.
I agree Dark Petition isn't the best card I've played with in TES, and now that I'm playing with Diminishing Returns again I could see cutting it for Bribery if I wanted an answer to U/B Reanimator. But I've been very happy with Diminishing Returns vs B/R Reanimator, and even tho' Bribery would be better the thing is Bribery is 5 mana where Diminishing Returns is 4 and that makes a really big difference on pushing for the win ASAP.
So in short, I think it's a bit odd how you guys seem to think the manabase comes down to 8 Fetchlands or 4 Fetchlands and believe there is room to compromise on the number of Fetchlands as long as the total is enough to consistently search for 1 Basicland. I mean is 5 Fetchlands, 2 Underground Sea, 2 Volcanic Island, 3 Gemstone Mine not an option, or is 6 Fetchlands, 2 Underground Sea, 2 Volcanic Island, 2 Gemstone Mine and a SB Basicland not an option either? There is a lot of room to tweak the manabase towards stability if you're not obsessed with playing 4 ofs. I mean I would never play with 4 Gemstone Mine if for no other reason than drawing 2 depletion lands is about as bad as drawing 2 Chrome Mox so the 5th Fetchland seems like a strict improvement.
@Final Fortune
unfortunately, I've tried several combinations of 12 lands /fetch manabase and i am not confortable with none of these... there is no much difference from 7 to 8 fetches. after incrmeneting to >6 fetches the thing i am trying is -4th gemstone +3rd U.Sea, maybe sometimes i add a 5th fetch...but really dont know to draw a conclusion... the other day i made ponder and needed a R producer - lukyly i found Gemstone, but it could have been U.Sea!! thr statistics in this deck are so fragile...
RElated to Bribert vs D.R.vs Reanimator, well I believe it is faster Bribery, because with D.R. you need at least UBR floating in order to get 60% of chance winnings the same turn.
With Bribery you just land Griselbrand or Iona if you prefer with 0 floating mana and i believe the percentage should be higher then. anyway if i have Bribery in my side I would prefer to cast Bribery than D.R. vs this archetype all days of the week.
My Parfait Build
My Psychatog Build
Yes, I am advanced and you know it...
Suggestion: Play Magic as a Hobby. Competitiveness is uniquely usefull in this Era and just to evolve the human being to a certain extent...
I'm going for the turn 1 kill or the game reset +1 land and Chrome Mox a lot, I get the kill like 13% of the time but I'm probably running really hot. I'm not saying Bribery isn't better vs B/r Reanimator, maybe the answer is cut Dark Petition and play Diminishing Returns and Bribery, but Diminishing Returns is an option vs B/r Reanimator that doesn't require you to dedicate a slot to a specific match up.
3rd Underground Sea over 5th Fetchland sounds pointless to me, the only reason to play the 5th Dual Land or Swamp is because the total number of fetches risks not having targets at X fetches, and at 5 fetches that isn't even close to that number with 4 Dual Lands.
Show me where I argued for MB PiF or CR. Really, just bring it. You are also free to elaborate "where you told me that" and how it was underlined. The only time we talked about the Diamond + Sol build, you just begged me for a list and that's it.
Last edited by Lemnear; 08-06-2017 at 11:41 AM.
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I think he's referring to that tournament where you tried no maindeck Empty with 2 RoF. I can't remember what it was, maybe a GP or BoM? It was quite some time ago.
I ran 2 Rain of Filth and no EtW during GP Lille, but I can't remember HIM telling us that & why certain like that do not work. I can't remember I told everyone its THE build to use as it was a desicion made after seeing the field. There was no discussion about it beforehand. I never argued for CR as we all know the bolms and banes. Its ridiculous that I am still running quite fine without EtW but the 7th discard in its place while the dood is playing the "I told you so" game in terms of deckbuilds at the same time he is whining that his bullshit manabases get curbstomped by Stifle/Wasteland/Daze and seemingly can't grasp that there is a middleground between 4 and 8 fetches, because fuck all the 5-0s Jasper, Bryant and Co achieve with the Fetchland/Dual core. Obviously those are all snowflakes because "told us" that Gemstones are the real deal.
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You know you loose this kind of games vs me..
But anyway ill take the 1st phrase before OR as example. You played in a tornamnt 2 RoF and i said i would like you to win but i would have hated such an aberration deck beeing called TES. You said ypu wrote the deck as storm.
Yes i asked you to share that mox diamond list and at the same time i promised you to not to laugh...
Take it easy i tryed also 1 veil of secrecy and before you born 1 grim tutor...
My Parfait Build
My Psychatog Build
Yes, I am advanced and you know it...
Suggestion: Play Magic as a Hobby. Competitiveness is uniquely usefull in this Era and just to evolve the human being to a certain extent...
Another episode of the series TheEpicStorm.com: TES MATCHUP BATTLES! is up and this time we face Burn! Giving a breakdown of the matchup that we could face in a tournament and that has been around for many many years.
http://theepicstorm.com/tes-matchup-battles-burn/
Let me know your thoughts and opinions. Thank you.
- Alex Poling
This is something I will never understand...
why do you take out G.P. vs Burn? - sure it makes you 2 damage, BUT makes the deck slower, and beeing quick is something you need to do vs Burn even at the cost of 2 Lifes. it can also provide info so you can Ponder or C.T. his Eidolon instead.
for this same reason I dont understand why A.N. is took out - I can understand on the draw. but on the play on your 2nd turn you have 2 mana and they as much can hit you 3 damage, so you are in a position where at 17 damage in 2nd turn you are missing a 7 mana plalyline.
I also find duress the worst card vs this archetype - are you going to take out a burn spell when they have toons? maybe for Pyrostatic Pillar if they play 4. (sure or MB Trap), but more often than not I usually prefer to ponder...
my boarding plan usually is:
-3Duress-2Ponder = +2E.T.,+2A.D,+1Bayou.
sometimes I just leaves the ponder if im on the play instead of decays. I in deed dont care this match up too much...
For me Burn has always been the easiest match up even after edioln, I near have 10 wins vs 1 loss, and that loss was because of him having luck and me just not wanting to mull...
I find 0 interesting the Burn match up.
@F.Fortune: Done! Bye bye D.P. Hello D.R! still on Bribery.
My Parfait Build
My Psychatog Build
Yes, I am advanced and you know it...
Suggestion: Play Magic as a Hobby. Competitiveness is uniquely usefull in this Era and just to evolve the human being to a certain extent...
That is interresting given I first picked up the game in '94
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I wasn't aware that you were a father, yet alone to such a bad card.
I once had a burrito food baby. Flushed it.
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