[Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)

[Eldariel]

Here's what you need against Solidarity:
Counterbalance

There, I said it. A resolved Counterbalance should be good enough to basically win the game, as it can counter every spell they try (most importantly, without giving them Storm-count), not only their accelerants (of course, it requires you to add Top, but meh, better than nothing).

[C.P.]

How does a spell countered by the balance does not count as spell?

Anyway, this deck only runs 4 brainstorm. And the top/counterbalance is not sufficient to stop the deck. I guess it deserves try, but the engine tends to suck against aggro decks, especially goblins.

[Kadaj]

Here's something interesting coming out in Planar Chaos:

Pirate Charm

Instant C
Choose one — Target creature gains islandwalk until end of turn; or target creature gets +2/-1 until end of turn; or target player discards a card.

So a blue Funeral Charm. It's never going to be the best card, but it is an answer to turn 1 Lackey as well as a brand of disruption Blue doesn't get a lot. I'm going to be testing this in my next build as well as Counterbalance-Top, so I'll get back to you guys on it.

[Drkdstryer]

How does a spell countered by the balance does not count as spell?

You don't help THEM out with a counterspell of your own.

[Iranon]

That new charm could have some impact. It's very effective on a stick, and staying mono-blue frees you to do a lot of things that would stretch the manabase too thin otherwise (such as a draw engine based on Scrying Sheets).

[C.P.]

@ Drkdstryer

They can still go spell - spell - spell - spell - freeze. The thing is you are going to give them the time to set a perfect hand to do so.


@Kadaj

Wow. I'm exited. Not sure how good it would be, but very interesting thing to run against aggro. a potential sideboard?

[outsideangel]

@ Drkdstryer

They can still go spell - spell - spell - spell - freeze. The thing is you are going to give them the time to set a perfect hand to do so.

That would all happen anyway. Counterbalance may not be the best answer, but at least it's an answer, which MUC is traditionally lacking when facing down Solidarity.

They can still play spells, but if you can counter most of their draw and High Tides, it'll be difficult for them to get both their mana and their storm to critical levels.

[C.P.]

That would all happen anyway. Counterbalance may not be the best answer, but at least it's an answer, which MUC is traditionally lacking when facing down Solidarity.

They can still play spells, but if you can counter most of their draw and High Tides, it'll be difficult for them to get both their mana and their storm to critical levels.

The point is that counterbalance needs a backup. What do you plan to run, a top? If you talk about an incomplete answer, chalice or teferi also serves an answer.

Counterbalance is also not very impressive against the goblins. An aggro plan with dandan is something that I've been thinking of. with counter backup, winning with 5 turn clock is not hard.

[Silverdragon]

It's 3 a.m. here in Germany and I'm really tired so forgive me if this sounds just stupid but what about Boomerang and Capsize?
These bouce spells can slow down Solidarity until you can find some other hate and creatures by simply bouncing their lands and Capsize can even create a softlock once you've got enough mana. As a bonus they are not dead against aggro too.

[Kadaj]

Here's the problem I've had in testing. The Counterbalance-Top engine reminds me a lot of Intuition-AK. It's good, but not as good as you'd like considering how much space it takes up and how little it does in certain matchups. Yes it helps against Solidarity, but still you're not going to get that matchup any better than 50-50, and it's horrible against Goblins. I've tried several lists, all of which have had the same issue: Counterbalance-Top takes up 8 potential slots (aproximately, anyway) that would otherwise go to draw, creature control, or counterspells, and it's not good enough at any of the above to replace them. Hence, my reccomendation is those of you who want to play Balance-Top is to find an aggro-control shell to fit it into, where you can actually establish board position before dropping the pseudo-lock.

Pirate Charm really sucks in this kind of deck. It was never what I wanted it to be, and at most it's a very bad Lackey answer in a deck that really can't use any of its other functions. I will, however, readily admit that the lists I used were badly unrefined and thus their lack of success isn't really surprising. I'd be glad to continue testing, or let others take it up, but it seems like this is not the deck for Balance-Top.

[Doks]

I have never been a friend of that Counterbalance/Top-Engine for all those reasons and the ones listed before in this thread.

The only thing in the SB against Solidarity for me would be the Arcane Laboratory as a 3 of. It is even good against other Combo.
If you manage to resolve one try to counter the wishes as they will turn into Wipe Away.
Otherwise, I go so far to say that this IS a bad MU and concentrate on others.
Other Combo-MU except solidarity are pretty much in MUC's favour, so why to desperate about that only one while there are really not so much Solidarity-Players (in my meta).

@ Silverdragon:

I think the only real possible bounce for MUC is Repeal, as it is cheap (means fast) enough to handle early threats (especially vial) without creating any disadvantage.
Until Capsize comes online with Buyback it is pretty much too late.


So far,

Doks

[Maximus04]

Pirate charm is TOO conditional for it have any true use in the deck. I realistically played this deck at D4D, knowing that I had a terrible matchup against Solidarity. There is really no way to get around the fact. Run Arcane Labs and try to get a chalice for 1. That is really your only way of slowing them down, also make sure to counter the Wish.

If you are THAT paranoid about this matchup then this deck is obviously not for you. You dedicate 3 to 5 slots in the side and you do your best to win. You can usually top 8 with a loss.

After much testing, Repeal is still the best bounce around. Dok's is right, again, haha.

[Cait_Sith]

Pirate Charm is good early game vs Gobs, Thresh, and meh vs Solidarity. I would think that MUC would like using it.

[nitewolf9]

Pirate Charm really sucks in this kind of deck. It was never what I wanted it to be, and at most it's a very bad Lackey answer in a deck that really can't use any of its other functions.

How is Pirate Charm a bad answer for lackey? It kills lackey. That's the best answer to lackey. Force is card disad., and putting a blocker out there isn't guaranteed. It's never a dead card and this deck runs draw. Lackey destroys you if he hits. I think Pirate Charm is a boon for this deck.

Oh yeah, boomerang might be alright MD. Then you could run 4 Dandans in the board. At least you'd have some kind of a clock, which is what you need to beat solidarity.

[C.P.]

How is Pirate Charm a bad answer for lackey? It kills lackey. That's the best answer to lackey. Force is card disad., and putting a blocker out there isn't guaranteed. It's never a dead card and this deck runs draw. Lackey destroys you if he hits. I think Pirate Charm is a boon for this deck.

Oh yeah, boomerang might be alright MD. Then you could run 4 Dandans in the board. At least you'd have some kind of a clock, which is what you need to beat solidarity.

It is bad because it only deals with lackey. FoW, on the other hand, deals with everything. Against gobbos, the charm only deals with lackey, fanatic(how horrible), and matron. Its discard function is marginal at best.

I tried Dandan, and I felt it is only good with something like chalice or arcane lab. I still feel that chalice + teferi is the best answer so far, since they are good against many other decks.

[Doks]

// Lands
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
12 [A] Island

// Creatures
3 [US] Morphling

// Spells
4 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
3 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
3 [GP] Repeal
2 [UD] Powder Keg
3 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [VI] Impulse
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [SH] Mana Leak
4 [B] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will

This is what my current modern build looks like.

The Matchups I want that chalice I want it early, so it is a 4-of.
Otherwise, it is TfK-fodder with the third shackles and later Moxen.
I really like Tfk, especially in a deck with that artifact count it is very supportable.

As Maximus04 said: try out Mishra's Factory, it's worth its slots ;)
With 20 sources of blue you can easily support 3 colorless Lands.

They work as a Clock that doesn't need to be forced through (-> Solidarity any1?), they are another way of finishing move and last but not least - simply blockers that trade even with a threshed Mongoose or a thrown in the way of an X/2 Piledriver ;)


Doks

[ForceofWill]

It is bad because it only deals with lackey. FoW, on the other hand, deals with everything. Against gobbos, the charm only deals with lackey, fanatic(how horrible), and matron. Its discard function is marginal at best.

I tried Dandan, and I felt it is only good with something like chalice or arcane lab. I still feel that chalice + teferi is the best answer so far, since they are good against many other decks.

Are you kidding It's perfect it's removal for 1 mana which this deck REALLY Needs as well as can be pitched to force of will and if they have no cards in hand during their draw phase after they draw you can make them dicard without a chance to play anything.

[Lanfeng]

can be pitched to force of will

Never use this argument it is a terrible argument. "Hey moonlace might come in handy when somebody pyroblasts your ophidian, plus it can be pitched to force zomg!" If you haven't noticed yet, every blue card can be pitched to force, the only upside is that running cards like daze and mana leak (which both are relatively playable cards) or certain cards that are the weakest cards in your deck is that you won't have a tough choice choosing the right card to pitch to force. This deck can't afford to play a weak card (no deck can), I haven't decided what to think about pirate charm yet, but my instincts say that it is much too situational. As for choosing the right card to pitch to force when there is no obvious choice I normally choose the brainstorm or AK or the FOF or the Ophidian before I even consider a counterspell or other force. You'd rather have a counter then try to dig for a counter.

Hate to go off topic, but am I the only one seeing just like 5 threads in the Open Legacy Discussion section?

[Doks]

Hi again.

Got just some thought now as I looked throug my cards:

Do you think that there is a way to usefully include Gifts Ungiven in this deck?
Or do you even know a way?

I mean, this card has a lot potential:
Cardadvantage and precise search, but there is actually no way that comes into my mind to use it.


Doks

[Maximus04]

I have also considered the card too...but it would compete with FoF slot. I have never playtested it, because I was far too fond of FoF to even consider dropping it for Gifts. The amount of card advantage your recieve with FoF should overule the precision of Gifts. Not enough silver bullets in the deck.