[Deck] Turbo Depths

[apple713]

http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1197

Interesting DnT vs Negator's Turbo Depths "What's the Play?"

Obvious line is to tap all out and Crop Rotate the Stage for a Stage, play Depths and combo out, but leaves you open to a sand-bagged Karakas that the article hints about in hand.

Do you Crop Rotate, play depths, GQ the Wasteland and wait to make Marit Lage EOT? I don't see relevance of AD, Mox is too expensive, and can't see any Surgical targets - except maybe just GQ the Wasteland, Surgical it to check the hand, and make Marit Lage after your next draw step.

Thats not the obvious line of play. I wouldnt be wasting a crop rotation on the chance that he doesnt have karakas. there are no obvious lines here. Id like to know why negator didnt surgical, make the token, or copy something at the end of last turn.

Negator isnt likely to be able to play the surgical to remove something like stp because he would have to force it out if the hand by creating a token. He wouldnt have time to reassemble the combo a second time given the clock d&t has on him. So it should be used for information.

If you dont cast decay you pretty much lose it. It will cost 3 mana in the future which is a whole turns worth currently. Also a smart d&t player wont tap mom and keep it to protect a flickerwisp, so you wont really be able to do much in the future with an abrupt decay. Its use it or lose it. You want to cast it to at least buy more turns.


There are two plays imo
1) to either do nothing and wait to draw you card and make decisions based on that OR
2) use the extra mana to cast abrupt decay. My target would likely be thalia since it hinders your ability to react and cast spells appropriately. However if you draw a sejiri steppe and cant crop rotate for it later youll lose because tou cant get theough the flickerwisp. If you tatget the flicker wisp tou dont have to worry about crop rotating into steppe to get by the blocker but risk being short on mana or delaying yourself an extra turn to make sure the coast is clear.

Id probaby abrupt decay thalia, and gq wasteland, then surgical the wasteland for information. That way you still have 2 crops, 1 for sejiri, and 1 to kill a karakas. You have reduced board threat and gained valuable information.



Id like to know what negator did do and if he won. Message me if you dont want to spoil it for others.

[Claymore]

The other line I saw on the internet was to AD the Flickerwisp so you don't have to use Sejiri on it, GQ the wasteland, play the Depths, then on the drawstep play Surgical on the Wasteland. Gets info, but you would need to draw a land that turn or next in order to be able to combo and play Crop Rotation on the same turn with Thalia still out - while still dealing with Rishaden Port.

[apple713]

The other line I saw on the internet was to AD the Flickerwisp so you don't have to use Sejiri on it, GQ the wasteland, play the Depths, then on the drawstep play Surgical on the Wasteland. Gets info, but you would need to draw a land that turn or next in order to be able to combo and play Crop Rotation on the same turn with Thalia still out - while still dealing with Rishaden Port.

I guess you gq wasteland, tap stage to surgical wasteland, gain information, draw card, then decide whether to hit wisp or thalia.

If tou draw another land you may want it for mox if thalia isnt in play for the extra green.

[Meyer]

I played BG Depths to a 5-2 finish yesterday at Baltimore's Win-A-Mox.

Miracles (2-0)
Aggro Loam (0-2)
Elves (2-1)
Sneak and Show (2-1)
Lands (0-2)
Goblins (2-1)
Grixis Delver (2-0)

I thought people might find it interested to see how NOT to play Turbo Depths. I was feature matched against David Long for Game 2 of our match yesterday in Round 5. The coverage begins at 4:23 of this video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/163293145

A word of warning - I am very aware that I play terribly in this game. I only listened to the audio on the video on my car ride home yesterday (I haven't actually re-watched it yet). Based on the commentary and what I remember from the game, I know I mistapped once or twice, I think I missed Bogging his graveyard at one point that would have mattered, I made the absolute bonehead Steppe play, and worst of all I missed the kill entirely with the porting of his Karakas at the end of the turn.

I also think I made a few less obvious mistakes. I think I should have used my first Surgical Extraction on his Ghost Quarter, rather than the Loam, especially given that he plays Burning Wish. I received some questions about why I Surgicaled his Crop Rotations with my second copy of the card. At that point, I was hoping to make Marit Lage and cast Rite of Consumption all in the same turn (which is my plan post-board if I can't win quickly). I wanted to exile the Crop Rotations to stop a possible Rotation into Glacial Chasm. That said, I probably made a few plays that don't gel with that line...

I have never had a camera match before, I don't get to play nearly as much as I would like, I was extremely nervous, and this was my first actual tournament with the deck (I'm a Nic Fit player mainly). The Steppe misplay probably requires the most explanation...The only real games I have played with the deck since building it about a month ago have been against a friend who plays Death and Taxes. I am so used to Stepping in response to Swords to Plowshares, that somehow that line just got incorrectly burned into my brain. I guarantee I will never do that again...

I felt that I played well the rest of the tournament, but now I'm starting to wonder where else I screwed up if I played this game so poorly.

If you have any other feedback or scolding please let me know. I'd love to become more competent with this deck, as I plan to play it in the upcoming SCG team events.

Yeah I just randomly browsed Twitch Sunday afternoon (European time) and saw the first round on camera: Opposition Elves (with Faeries?) beating Sneak&Show. Wow I had to watch that!

I was really excited to see Turbo Depths on camera later on for two reasons: First, it’s always nice to have coverage of your own deck, especially if it’s rare to find (big shoutout to DNSolver at this point, your videos helped me getting a feeling for this deck considering strategy, matchups, mulligans and sideboarding). Second, I have gone through the Lands matchup only in theory, never faced that deck yet. In said theory it looks horrible; not matchup/ win percentage wise, but like a real ‘brain war’ – as your featured match proves I guess. So I’m thankful for the information you provide, even if it was not as successful as it used to be.

Considering your main ‘misplays’: Yes, the Sejiri Steppe vs. Karakas wasn’t well thought, but in fact it didn’t affect the outcome of the game (?). Next time you’ll know! And yes, there was a winning line (I saw that way before the commentators mentioned it, which speaks in my favor?) that you may have missed which cost you the game. But from a third person perspective it’s always much easier than for the player in the competitive tournament environment. If you’re nervous (and I think most of us would be, primarily on camera), your brain is just under stress and it seems impossible to have a complete view over complex situations. Therefore, we play as much as we can and as good as we can to remember those situations if something similarly happens again.

That said, I was in the same situation 3 weeks ago. My first 6 round tournament, was at 3:1. A win would have secured prizes. Game 3 I totally dominated my UB Reanimator opponent with discard, Surgicals, Bojuka Bog and Karakas for Elesh Norn. He had Needle on Stage, so I searched for a Hexmage with the help of Sylvan Library for about 10 turns. Failed to find one, and at some point he used one of his reanimation spells to get one of my already dead Hexmages and beats me to death. After the match he told me that I could have won easily by removing counters from Dark Depths by paying 3 mana. Facepalm. It was that simple. Maybe one of the reasons for this was that I had a token/chip showing ‘10’ to put on my Dark Depths which subconsciously suggests that I have only my ‘static’ combo to win a game, without the ability to grind and spend 3 mana a turn. Now I use a dice. But I learn from my mistakes and get better with the deck the more I play it, or watch it being played. Again, for beginners I recommend DNSolvers videos if they’re still on YouTube. I watched them more than once and learned a lot.

Some sidenotes:

1. I play one Ratchet Bomb maindeck, one in the side. Today it won game 3 vs Goblin Stompy (which I think is even worse matchup than Dragon Stompy/ Big Red/ Red Prison or whatever 8 moon decks are around, because of Mogg Catcher/ Goblin Settler / Kiki Jiki interactions) by blowing up 1 Magus and 2 Blood Moons. Being colorless helps a lot. It has also applications vs DnT, Elves and other decks with permanents in the 1-2 cmc range. Yes it can be slow, but with fast mana it’s a solid turn 1 play, sometimes blowing up their Chalice clearing the coast for discard into Crop Rotation into win.

2. My testing partner on Sneak&Show/ Omni has bought Leylines of Sanctity after being crushed by discard (the matchup was like 60:40 in my favor). He was very lucky having it in his openers recently, but that card can be problematic. What should I do? Boarding out discard in that matchup is dangerous, and I don’t want to have mind games like ‘does he board them or not?’ so that I board it out with no need, therefore weakening my chances even more.

3. On the Sylvan Safekeeper discussion: I have had more success with them in the last two months, so I’ll possibly never look back (at NoTW).

4. Sylvan Library. Just play it. That card is such a beast and does so much for this deck. But how many? I don’t like them in the sideboard, but I also don’t want to clog up my maindeck.

[solnox]

What did you cut for Ratchet Bomb?

On Safekeeper: Card is just so good at making spot removal look awful. The common answers of Karakas, Swords to Plowshares and edict look so much worse in the face of Safekeeper.

I've had a miracles opponent surgical all my safekeepers after Forcing it as it was completely obnoxious and forced him to have terminus which is much harder to float on top these days.

[chaosjace]

I've decided to cut confidant lately, while I love everything he does in the deck, I think it slows me down too much and eats removal as someone mentioned earlier.
-4 confidant

+ pitching needle
+ sylvan safekeeper
+ bojuja bog
+ sylvan library

[ashent]

RE: Sylvan Library

I really like 1 mb 1 sb that I saw recently in here. Previously I have tried the 3 Libraries in the side approach for Swords matchups but it feels pretty silly, is useless in multiples, and sometimes it feels like a full 3 slots wasted when you don't run into any decks playing white. I feel like I'm going to do this 1/1 split for a while and see how it goes.

Game 1 it is on the slower side but can really dig you out of those situations where you are drawing 1 card a turn with no Brainstorm feeling like a dope and never topdecking anything good.

[hovercraft]

Anyone else testing any Junk Depths lists with Solemnity out?

Here is what I have been testing out so far. Solemnity definitely makes the deck pretty resilient when you have cards like Loam, Excavator, Knight and Crop Rotation.


2 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath

4 Mox Diamond


Combo Pieces/diggers:
4 Crop Rotation
2 Life from the Loam
2 Solemnity
1 Sylvan Library
4 Vampire Hexmage

Green Sun's Z package:
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Removal/Discard:
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate

Sideboard:

1 Bojuka Bog
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maze of Ith
2 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Trinisphere

[filln]

I ran the following at my LGS' weekly:

4 Solemnity
1 Phyrexian Unlife
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Crop Rotation
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mox Diamond
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
2 Gideon of the Trials
1 Scattered Groves
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
2 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Swamp

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sacred Ground
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Pithing Needle

It actually performed a lot better than I expected and I didn't have major mana color issues thanks to both Mox Diamond and Deathrite. The sideboard I threw together that day and I would probably shave an Enlightened Tutor from the main for another Thoughtseize. This build is a pretty far departure from Turbo Depths though, so I'll keep the rest of the analysis for a separate thread.

[Negator77']

Thats not the obvious line of play. I wouldnt be wasting a crop rotation on the chance that he doesnt have karakas. there are no obvious lines here. Id like to know why negator didnt surgical, make the token, or copy something at the end of last turn.

Negator isnt likely to be able to play the surgical to remove something like stp because he would have to force it out if the hand by creating a token. He wouldnt have time to reassemble the combo a second time given the clock d&t has on him. So it should be used for information.

If you dont cast decay you pretty much lose it. It will cost 3 mana in the future which is a whole turns worth currently. Also a smart d&t player wont tap mom and keep it to protect a flickerwisp, so you wont really be able to do much in the future with an abrupt decay. Its use it or lose it. You want to cast it to at least buy more turns.


There are two plays imo
1) to either do nothing and wait to draw you card and make decisions based on that OR
2) use the extra mana to cast abrupt decay. My target would likely be thalia since it hinders your ability to react and cast spells appropriately. However if you draw a sejiri steppe and cant crop rotate for it later youll lose because tou cant get theough the flickerwisp. If you tatget the flicker wisp tou dont have to worry about crop rotating into steppe to get by the blocker but risk being short on mana or delaying yourself an extra turn to make sure the coast is clear.

Id probaby abrupt decay thalia, and gq wasteland, then surgical the wasteland for information. That way you still have 2 crops, 1 for sejiri, and 1 to kill a karakas. You have reduced board threat and gained valuable information.



Id like to know what negator did do and if he won. Message me if you dont want to spoil it for others.

Answer (best line in our opinions) and what I did got posted here:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1208

Since it's not mentioned in either article, I didn't have mana untapped outside of a stage at the end of his turn to decay... My previous turn was cast map, crack map, play land. He had no graveyard and GQ was tapped, so there was nothing to even think about hitting with surgical at that point.

[Darkgobs]

Answer (best line in our opinions) and what I did got posted here:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?p=1208

Since it's not mentioned in either article, I didn't have mana untapped outside of a stage at the end of his turn to decay... My previous turn was cast map, crack map, play land. He had no graveyard and GQ was tapped, so there was nothing to even think about hitting with surgical at that point.

Thank you for the answer. It is truely not the same thing trying to solve a problem like this one during a real game or at home while eating breakfast...not to speak about tournaments! If you have other like this, don't hesitate, it is truly instructive (and fun!)

On an other note: how satisfied are you with the list from this problem? Especially, what about the lonely Stifle?

In advance, thanks

Envoyé de mon Blackphone 2 en utilisant Tapatalk

[Barthalamou]

It's been a very long time since I've posted.
I've been playing Turbo Depths for a long time now, the first big tournament I took this deck to was GP Louisville back in January 2016. I went 6-3 day one then scrubbed out day 2.
Recently went to a local legacy tournament with about 20 people and wen 5-1-2, both draws were ID for top 8 then ID for split 1/2 place.
Match One: Punishing Jund 2-0
Game 1 I had a quick token through DD/Stage/Urborg. He thought I was on lands.
Game 2 He had me dead with 2 DRS, 2 Bob, Lili, 2 Punishing Fire for exactly lethal. He should have attacked first then minus Lili to make me sac but he instead ticked her up and then swung, I assumed he had a second Lili but made the token anyways to block. He had nothing in hand and I won on the swing back.

Match Two: UWg stoneblade
I forget what happens exactly in this match. It was mostly natural combo with DD/Stage/urborg with discard backup. I remember him being upset about have natural combo both games and he also boarded for me being lands, such as graffdiggers cage, relic of progenitus.

Match Three: D&T 0-2
Game 1 We go back and forth, He ends up getting there with flickerwisp and Mom shenanigans.
Game 2 The deck just did not want to cooperate. Drew 3 Into the North and 2 Dark depths in a row.... Flipped 3 Urborgs and a NOTW to Bob for lethal.

Match Four: Burn 2-1
Game 1 DD, Hexmage, Urborg, Duress hand. I knew he was on burn so I snap kept. He went first but I took his fireblast and he was way short of lethal.
Game 2 I fetched the wrong part of the combo to delay me one turn. I had a token on the field at 2 life and he had Guide. He needed to topdeck a bolt.... He does.
Game 3 I had DD, Hexmage, Urborg, Petal, Thoughtsieze, Duress, Surgical. Turn one I urborg, petal, duress, thoughtsieze. Take fireblast and price. T2 token pass, He has guide and plays second land into eidolon. I win.

Match Five: ID to top 8

Match Six: D&T same player as before. 2-0
We almost all drew to split prizes but one person didn't want to.
Game 1 He keeps a risky hand with 1 land and vial. I take vial with thoughtseize and he doesn't draw a second land.
Game 2 We each go back and forth making small plays but mostly setting up. I had 2x needle on wasteland, sylvan safekeeper on board, like 6 lands in play. NOTW and crop rotation in hand. I make a token in his combat to block, give it shroud, block and kill his attacker... He plays Councils Judgement to take the token.... I crop rotate for thespian stage EOT and sylvan scrying for DD and wait to make a token his EOT. He doesn't have 1 answer let alone 3.

Match Seven: Lands 2-0, Great player but he has never seen the deck played and assumed it was a loam engine.
Game 1 We go back and forth setting up, we both get DD stage in play. I GQ his karakas EOT. Draw thoughtseize to see he has no crop rotation. Naturally play Steppe to give pro black and swing for the win.
Game 2 We ended up in a similar position. I have NOTW, Crop rotation, Crop rotation, He has not seen NOTW yet so he does not play around it. I forget exactly what happens but we each blow everything we have except I have NOTW in hand and he has crop rotation during my combat. I attack and he casts crop rotation. If he wouldve gotten Glacial Chasm it wouldve been GG because he can loam his karakas back on his turn. He fetches maze of ith and proceeds to read what NOTW does.
Into the finals!
Match Eight vs BR Reanimator ID
We draw because we are the last 2 in the play area. I felt pretty good about this matchup with all of our discard, karakas, bog, and surgicals.

I love the Sylvan safekeepers main but NOTW is way too good in certain matchups to cut it completely, I run 2 safekeepers main 2 NOTW side. I'll post a deck list tomorrow.
Decklist
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Bayou
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Bojuka Bog
-
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Elvish Spirit Guide

4x Thoughtseize
3x Duress
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Into the North
4x Crop Rotation

3x Pithing Needle
4x Lotus Petal
1x Sylvan Library
---Sideboard
1x Pithing Needle
1x Karakas
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Mishras Factory
2x Not of This World
2x Surigcal Extraction
2x Dark Confidant
4x Mindbreak Trap


Thanks for reading!

[Negator77']

Thank you for the answer. It is truely not the same thing trying to solve a problem like this one during a real game or at home while eating breakfast...not to speak about tournaments! If you have other like this, don't hesitate, it is truly instructive (and fun!)

On an other note: how satisfied are you with the list from this problem? Especially, what about the lonely Stifle?

In advance, thanks

Envoyé de mon Blackphone 2 en utilisant Tapatalk

I love the list, it has been very good to/for me. The Stifle has been so good that I've considered adding a second to the main or sb.

As an aside, a Depths vs DNT match-up guide got posted at Thraben University outlining things from the dnt side.. There is a lot of good info on there:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=1263

[apple713]

I love the list, it has been very good to/for me. The Stifle has been so good that I've considered adding a second to the main or sb.

As an aside, a Depths vs DNT match-up guide got posted at Thraben University outlining things from the dnt side.. There is a lot of good info on there:
http://www.thrabenuniversity.com/?page_id=1263

addded to the sb guide.

[Fuzzy]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this thread and I'll be playing this deck for the first time in a couple of days.

I had a question, and I'm really sorry if anyone already posted about this in the past: Pithing Needle is a staple in this deck, mainly because Wastelands being so good against it. What do you guys think about Encroach as additional protection?

[Negator77']

Hi everyone, I'm new to this thread and I'll be playing this deck for the first time in a couple of days.

I had a question, and I'm really sorry if anyone already posted about this in the past: Pithing Needle is a staple in this deck, mainly because Wastelands being so good against it. What do you guys think about Encroach as additional protection?

I looked long and hard at this card a couple of times. One issue is that in the toughest Wasteland match-ups(where additional help would be welcome), they have diversified answers... Like against Dnt where this hits Waste and Karakas, but misses Flickerwisp, Plow, Path, etc. Against lands, its hits problem lands, but they also have eight tutors and Loam to deal with on top of that. There will be games where you straight up mana or color screw an opponent or snag a wasteland, but that isn't really our game plan or something that will ever happen with consistency. Overall I think the card comes up short because it's a terrible topdeck in most spots and is just really narrow in general.

[Fuzzy]

Played this deck in two tournaments this weekend at GP São Paulo. A small one (10 players), where I went 3-1 losing to Dragon Stompy, and another with 50+ players where I finished 4-2, but in the end I lose to a topdecked Diabolic Edict from Grixis Delver and a hard matchup against Jeskai Stoneblade (A great friend of mine, who ended winning the whole thing).

As a former Lands player, I still don't know how I feel about this deck, maybe because my lack of practice. I'll post my decklist tomorrow since it's some sort different from anything you guys play.

[caseyc]

Hey All-- just won my second bye for EW...so I suppose I should go :-) I played a relatively stock BG Turbo Depths list with a Rite of Consumption + Boseiju SB plan. http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16546&f=LE 16 man EW trial, 4 rounds cut to top 8.

Round 1: Lands 2-0 Rite is great here.

Round 2: Dredge 2-1 This is the only game I drop--which was kinda a mistake of judgement. Overall, we have what it takes to make this a pretty good matchup. He boarded in 4x Natures claim which was odd but great against my grafdigger's cage I had t1 both games 2 and 3.

Round 3: Grixis Delver 2-0 He made a couple mistakes but I had good, redundant hands.

Round 4: ID with my DnT friend

Top 8: Czech Pile 2-0 Weird build with no Jace, Wasteland, or Edict so he didn't have much interaction.

Top 4: Lands 2-0. I won game 2 with a ESG and Hexmage beat down--final blow was dealt by Rite of Consumption sacking my Hexmage :-) That was a first.

Finals: Mentor-heavy Miracles w/ Daze 2-0. Game 1 I just was lucky he didn't have StP for my fast ML. Game 2 I assembled Boseiju + Rite and got him.

Overall, happy about how the deck performed. The new mentor-focused miracles build is pretty good but has less interaction with us. A better clock, however. I really love playing against Lands--and Rite makes it a pretty decent matchup post board. Looking forward to EW :-)

[solnox]

How do you guys board vs lands?

I typically board out nearly all the discard spells as they're usually bad but thinking about it, Crop Rotation is so huge in the matchup that keeping them in might be important.

[DNSolver]

Discard on the play can be necessary and helpful against Lands, taking Exploration or Gamble on turn 1. Postboard our best interaction against most of their deck is Pithing Needle on the things that make our strategy embarrassing, so being able to take Krosan Grip with discard is ok too. Rarely will it completely miss, and late game it can be saved to check for a Crop Rotation.