2 D&T, 1 BUG Control, 1 Lands, 1 Miracles, 1 Jeskai Stoneblade, and one deck that I didn't get to see (some kind of combo that lost to D&T, I think). There were a lot of fair decks, which helped.Originally Posted by NeckBird
went undefeated with a UG build in a local weekly event. Matchups were BUG Control, Lands, Lands.
// Lands
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [P2] Forest (1)
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [MR] Cloudpost
2 [TSP] Vesuva
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [C14] Bojuka Bog
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [PT] Island (3)
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
// Creatures
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [PRE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
2 [HOU] Nimble Obstructionist
1 [EMN] Emrakul, the Promised End
// Spells
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [LG] Sylvan Library
3 [US] Show and Tell
2 [OGW] Warping Wail
4 [EMN] Grapple with the Past
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [FNM] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [OD] Moment's Peace
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Interesting list! Could you recap either of your games against lands? I still have not played against lands with any of my Post builds, despite it being in my local meta.
How were the obstructionists and the grapples for you?
Round 1 vs BUG was heavily won on the back of grapple -> Snap -> Grapple -> Titan chaining. Game 1 I cast 5 grapples and fizzled 5 drs casts with either the Snapcaster or returning the Cloudpost (people always exile highest priority lands with drs, and your grave first). Game 2 I only sided in a Tabernacle, similar result. Massive value chain from Sylvan Library into Grapple into snapcaster abuse. Obstructionist saves -2's on Liliana multiple times, which forces Jace to -1 multiple times and lilly to do virtually nothing.
Round 2 vs lands was pretty brutal for lands. Game 1 I had candelabra to counter ports on my karakas, Obstructionist was huge. I hit the wasteland with obstructionist, and then I bog'd mainphase Loam + waste. Then Grapple into Obstructionist to stop Dark Depths for 1 more turn. He mainphase makes the 20/20 to prevent stifle affects, and I map for karakas on my turn, and Titan wins it soon thereafter. Game 2 was him with Trinisphere turn 2, me with show and tell titan turn 4 with obstructionist on turn 3 for the wasteland.
Round 3 vs lands was slightly rougher for me. Game 1 I get with candelabra countering port, and a timely bog when wasteland + loam were in the grave. Grapple into Snap into Grapple into bog recursion was huge and ground the game out easily once I hit his recursion. Game 2 He gets an early 20/20 before I have a chance. I believe it was Diamond, Diamond, Loam, x2 combo pieces, exploration. 20/20 on turn 2 on the play. No crop for me. Game 3 He has a Trinisphere, but I quickly get candelabra + cloudpost with obstructionist saving ghost quarter/waste attempts that quickly are surgical/bog'd away. Sylvan Library again is clutch.
These sound like some interesting games. I didn't realize Grapple was an instant until reading your write up, and obstructionist seemed kind of oddball until reading about it. Thank you for taking the time to write this up.
Anyone know who Killian is? He apparently won a piece of Power recently with a Cg list. I saw him on camera a day or so ago on twitch, round 3 (SnapCasters). It was a match with lands that went to 3 and turns but over was a very nuanced slug fest. I was impressed with his play.
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You can see my report on winning the Mox Emerald tournament and my comments on that camera match in my posts on the previous page of this thread. I'm pleased that you were impressed - all I see are the mistakes!
I completely missed that write up thanks! I still have yet to play against lands with post. The matchup looks very nuanced, especially from my lack of experience.
The wastes has been useful to me in the past as we had a ton of dragon stompy in my meta so countering firey confluence was useful, or a ponder or sfm through other oddball local decks. I also play a one of endbringer and world breaker (has saved me so many games...its amazing) so it helps with them.
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Hello!
Jeremiah Rudolph, internet moonlighter as KareBaron, here announcing my brave new leap into the streaming verse starting tomorrow morning 9/21 @ 9 am EST (2 pm GMT / 3 pm CET).
My starting streams will have a heavy focus on MTG playtesting the entire Legacy meta of the last 2 months in order to produce a dynamic google sheet of every deck's win percent versus every other deck in the meta. This Mega product will show individual archetype matchups, an overall-versus-the-meta win percentage, and of course a Leaderboard.
Whether looking for a place to lurk and lounge, or looking for nonstop deck techs and/or a desire to have me run your deck through specific matchups or the whole meta gauntlet, come join what I hope will become a budding community for all things magic and gaming in general.
https://www.twitch.tv/karebaron
Look forward to seeing you
Should clearly just be titled "JerBear" but that is neither here nor there!
I'm just wondering, but why hasn't the Primer been updated? it is suggesting SDT but it was banned almost 5 months ago.
My online moniker of "Kare" has long been a homonymic allusion to Jer, and KareBaron is a carebear dadesque joke. So we're on the same page. :D
The deck development has been mostly in the front pages for awhile now. People linking their recent successes and ideas. Check out the last 5 pages for a good idea. I can update the main page in a few days though to include a version I've been winning with locally and online on my twitch channel http://www.twitch.tv/karebaron
@Rock Lee: Did you miss Pithing Needles? In my area we see Wasteland all over the place. I also noticed your 61/14 Main/Board split. Were you happy with that? Obstructionist and Grapple look genius to me...! Congrats on the great finish.
I'm probably going to play a variant in a week, but I feel like I need 3, or even better...4 Needles to be good here. We usually see 18 to 24 players. Rishadan Port (33%), Wasteland (66%), Dark Depths (16%), Jace TMS (50%), Liliana OTV (33%), DRS (66%), Aether Vial (8%), and random stupid stuff are all over us in San Diego. What would you do to add Needles? -1 Expedition Map, -1 Brainstorm, and -1 Warping Wail seem like the only things that could be cut, and I don't like losing any of those. That's assuming that you wouldn't just press forward without them.
Dave
I will Find a way...or make one.
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Card Carrying Member: Team Mind Trick
Best.Fortune.Cookie.Evar: \"Among the lucky, you are the chosen one.\"
Noloam said, "i lost an unloseable game against miracles, where i accidentally tapped my tomb for lethal.."
Last weekend, I won a local 21-person tournament with this UG brew:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Dark Depths
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Repeal
4 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Library
4 Expedition Map
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
3 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
Sideboard:
4 Flusterstorm
3 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Disclaimer: This build is an experiment, a blend of aspects of various other 12Post builds that I mixed together. It started by being based on the structure and consistency of theboozecube's colorless green build. Within his manabase, I felt like the 7-8 basic Forests present could very easily accommodate a second color, and I still love abusing Brainstorm and its little brother Ponder. It's meant to be played more like the colorless green build than the traditional UG build. I don't claim this list to be superior to any other list, and I don't expect anyone to agree with my choices. But the experiment has so far been fun and successful.
A few pages back, I posted my first iteration of this deck, which I took to GP Vegas untested and still managed to make day 2 with. Compared to the previous list, this one feels much more polished. Most importantly, I removed All Is Dust and Maze of Ith from the maindeck and replaced them with Repeals and an Engineered Explosives, versatile early-game removal pieces that I am more familiar with. During the GP, I regretted not having removal that cost less than 7 mana and was upset at myself for not thinking to throw in the usual Repeals that I almost always have included before. Bounce is a simple, fundamental benefit of including blue, and Repeal itself is easy on the color requirements and even plays well with the multiple Candelabras in the deck.
Another key addition to this list is the Thespian's Stage and Dark Depths combo. I've never been a fan of Dark Depths in any 12Post build, as going for the combo requires so many resources and detracts from your main ramping plan. But since this deck doesn't have my usual Show and Tell for speed, I was enticed to try the combo in order to have a relatively quick way to steal a game. Full sets of Crops and Maps in addition to all the blue cantrips should make assembling the combo not too difficult. Since I want the combo to be available any time the opportunity arises (and since the combo only requires two card spaces in the deck), I decided to keep the Depths in the maindeck.
I won't go into too much detail, but here's a brief write-up of my matches during the tournament:
Round 1 - BUG + R Leovold Control
Other than some Hymns, the match seemed easy as he wasn't running Wastelands.
In: +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Tabernacle
Out: -1 Bog, -1 Map
I honestly can't remember much of this match, other than he mulliganed to five one of the games and I never really felt in danger at any time.
1-0
Round 2 - Elves
Elves was already a difficult matchup for 12Post before, and without Show and Tell for an early Titan into Chasm, this version would struggle even more. The general plan is to ramp as quickly as possible to Ugin, or make a Marit Lage token ASAP. Hide behind a Glacial Chasm if need be. He was way too quick for me the first game.
In: +4 Flusterstorm, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Tabernacle
Out: -2 Ulamog, -1 Bog, -1 Repeal, -1 Needle, -1 Map
Some extra pointers for the Elves matchup:
- Name Deathrite Shaman with Needle. Not only will you slow their mana production by doing so, you will also cut off their way of finishing you off when you get to the point of hiding behind Glacial Chasm.
- If you have the lands and Crop Rotation to spare and they don't have a Gaea's Cradle out yet, get your Tabernacle out early. You should be able to buy enough time until they draw into a Cradle.
- Use Flusterstorms on their early Glimpses and GSZ's. Natural Order is much less likely to be countered, unless their mana is already tied up via Tabernacle.
Those are some principles that I try to follow in the matchup. In the second game, I was able to ramp very quickly into an Ugin. Game 3, I mulliganed to a six card hand with two Cloudpost, a Candelabra, Ugin and some Crop Rotations. I figured that if I lived to my third turn, didn't have my Candle destroyed and was able to either draw another locus or green source, I would have enough mana to drop the Ugin. Luckily, I drew a third Cloudpost on the critical turn and swept the board with Ugin. My opponent was extremely salty after the loss.
2-0
Round 3 - Esper Delver
I hadn't seen this variation of Delver before (basically white for Swords and Zealous Persecution in the board, with Deathrites, TNN and Anglers as the creature suite), but I saw some lists online afterwards so maybe it's been around and I just haven't seen it. Game 1 I got to a slow start and I didn't see a single Wasteland or Delver, just a True-Name and later Gurmag Angler that started beating me. I put him on something much slower than a Delver deck. I only had the chance to cast one bomb, an Ugin which he countered.
In: +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Tabernacle
Out: -1 Bog, -1 Map
Game 2 had a crazy start and ended up going long. I hadn't yet seen Wasteland, so I named Deathrite with my first Needle. Over the next couple of turns, he got a Delver out at last, plus a Deathrite, then he countered two of my early spells with Daze (another card I did not expect nor see the first game). While he had his two creatures out and no lands in play, I Crop Rotated for a Tabernacle and was able to remove his two threats. Then over the course of the game, he ended up using all four of his Wastelands. He Surgically Extracted my Crop Rotations and Brainstorms. I finally ended up winning a long game with an Ulamog.
Game 3 he beat me down quickly Delver style.
2-1
Round 4 - Turbo Depths
He's the local Depths master and I haven't played this matchup yet, so I am intrigued for the coming battle. I think this matchup needs to be treated like the Lands matchup: tip-toeing around their board while jockeying for a means to have an answer to their Marit Lage token.
Game 1 my opening hand had two Pithing Needles, which I knew would likely end up naming either Stage or Hexmage. Instead of casting one, I decided to pass and wait to see which route he would take. On his first turn he played a Sylvan Safekeeper, so on my next turn I changed my mind to name the Safekeeper. I figured that without his Safekeeper, I could prevent him from winning by simply targeting the Marit Lage (with Karakas or Repeal) instead of worrying about the creation of the token. He never ended up making the token though, and I was able to ramp into Kozilek before he could figure out a win.
In: +3 Revoker
Out: -1 Bog, -1 Ugin, -1 Explosives
Based on the effectiveness of Needle on Safekeeper in game 1, I decided to load up on Needle effects for game 2. An early Revoker first named Safekeeper, but I was unable to find any other Needle effects after the first. He did find his Ghost Quarter and then used his Stage to copy and make a second Ghost Quarter. The first quarter destroyed my Karakas. At some point later in the game, I was able to play an Eye of Ugin, use it to make one black mana via his Urborg, and then cast a Kozilek. The key moment was then my bluff, where I played a Tropical Island and passed the turn, hoping to make him think I was holding up Repeal (I did not have it, even after drawing the four Kozilek cards!). He used the second Ghost Quarter to destroy my Tropical, so I searched up my basic Island. Then he went to his turn without making the token, effectively falling for my bluff! To make things even better, he used a Thoughtseize on his turn, seeing that I did not have it after all. The following turn, I was able to play a Candelabra and then cast Emrakul for the win.
3-1
Round 5 - ID for Top 8
3-1-1
Top 8 - Burn
My opponent kept insisting that 12Post was an abysmal matchup for Burn. I kept trying to tell him that no other deck had a card as backbreaking as Price of Progress to me, being able to kill me in one fell swoop. Not to mention, my opponent was siding Blood Moon, which is unusual for Burn. Nevertheless, he was convinced that Burn had almost no chance of beating Post. For whatever reason, his misunderstanding of the matchup really peeved me.
Game 1 he got stuck on one land and only sent Goblin Guides and Swiftspears at me. I was able to ramp quickly ti ab=n Eldrazi for the win.
In: +4 Flusterstorm, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Tabernacle
Out: -3 Needle, -2 Map, -1 Bog
The second game, he got off to a great start, killing me a turn before I would have been able to cast Ulamog. Just like my weakened matchups against combo decks due to a lack of Show and Tell, the Elves matchup aksi suffers without the speed provided by Show and Tell.
Game 3 was finally a close, even affair. When my opponent cast a Sulfuric Vortex on his third turn, I was at 11 life and had two Cloudposts and a Candle in play already. My fourth turn, I went to 9 life from the Vortex, played another locus land and cast Ulamog. The most obvious permanent to choose to exile might seem like Sulfuric Vortex. However, if I were to remove two of his three Mountains instead, I could keep him from casting the lethal Price of Progress if he were unlucky enough to miss another land drop. So I chose two Mountains. His following turn, he missed his next land drop (success so far!) and was stuck on one land. The Vortex was still a problem, though I either needed to remove it or win the damage race against him. On my next turn, I drew my second Ulamog! I attacked with the first, cast the second one to remove the Vortex and his last Mountain in play, and then followed everything up with a Glimmerpost for some life cushion. He played a Mountain the following turn, then on my turn I played a Map to search for Karakas, recast Ulamog after attacking and keep him from ever reaching his second mana. What a close one!
Top 4 - Esper Delver
This was a rematch against the one player who beat me in the third round. Game 1, he mulliganed to five cards and it wasn't really close.
In: +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Tabernacle
Out: -1 Bog, -1 Map
Game 2 he mulliganed to five again, but the result would end up being very different. On his second turn, he Wastelanded my Tropical Island and then Surgically extracted it, even hitting one copy in my hand! He would later Surgical all my Crop Rotations. At one point, when he had one card in hand, I loosely walked a Map into a Spell Pierce. Also, I drew a Pithing Needle the turn after he Wastelanded a critical Cloudpost. A Gurmag Angler finally allowed him to complete his comeback.
Game 3 went long but much more typical. When I had a basic Forest and Island out and no other lands in hand, I was able to dodge Daze and Force and resolve a crucial Sylvan Library. A second Ulamog, after the first got Swords'd, plus an Ugin finally topped a crazy match.
Finals - Elves
Another rematch, this time against the salty Elves player that I beat in the second round. Game 1 he got an incredible start, winning on his second turn.
In: +4 Flusterstorm, +1 Ratchet Bomb, +1 Tabernacle
Out: -2 Ulamog, -1 Bog, -1 Repeal, -1 Needle, -1 Map
Game 2 went the opposite way, this time as a blowout for me. He started out slow and I got out a third turn Ugin via multiple Cloudposts and a Candle.
Game 3 was fittingly a close game with no clear leader throughout most of it. When he first got a creature out, I Cropped for my Tabernacle. He didn't have a Cradle so he was slowed considerably. I took some damage from attackers before I was able to land an Ugin. He had a couple of Wirewood Symbiotes out to preserve some of his elves, but I figured that as long as I could control any of his "breakout" spells (Glimpse or Natural Order) then I could ride Ugin to victory. A Flusterstorm in hand countered a Glimpse when he was one mana short. I also had a Repeal in hand that, combined with absurd amounts of mana, could have bounced a Craterhoof Behemoth that could have hit the battlefield. A few turns later, a hardcast Emrakul sealed the deal completely.
So there you have it - the results of my latest deckbuilding experiment. Interestingly enough, I never ended up creating a Marit Lage token this tournament and never felt the need to. However, I like having the option available and will continue testing the combo in the deck. Also, I really miss having Show and Tell available, but incorporating Show and Tell would most likely require adding in Primeval Titan, which would change the foundation of the deck entirely. I have a lot of doubts about being able to piece together Sbow and Tell combos effectively without the consistency of Top. Plus, I am really loving the streamlined and consistent playstyle, if a bit more linear than before, of the structure of this and the colorless green builds.
I'll be back to ask some advice and provide more updates on this!
@Dave
I've tested Rock's build. I can say with confidence that the build works well. I reckon he didn't include pithing needle because of grapple since you can "always" get your lands back. With obstructionist and snappy, one can EOT ambush planeswalkers, which means that the build handles these threats in its fashion, without the need for the pithing needle. Though, I do not understand how Rock is winning against STORM, with only GY hate. A lot of times one needs a counter not just GY hate to overcome combo. Maybe I'm playing it wrong, but it seems that the sideboard could use some countermagic.
The build is very grindy, despite that it runs SnT. Even though I had success with it online, I'm not sure it's quite my playstyle. Maybe I'm not used to playing with my GY as well.
@into_play
Congrats on your finish.
Agreed on the bounce. Though, I've replaced my repeals with the cyclonic rift in all variants running bounce ever since the top ban. True, it doesn't draw you a card, and it's a shame you can't bounce your stuff, but besides of bouncing your usual threats it overcomes chalice and can "board wipe." It's also better against moon/magus and other larger CMC threats. In my case (I'm running Snappy) it's also easier to snap-cast it. Maybe it would work even better in your more ramp orientated build. Repeal lost a lot of utility with the top ban (look-draw-repeal) was just a fantastic play.
When I'm heavily relying on blue, I tend to run at least two basic islands. Maybe you can also try running a rouge copy of perilous vault, which has been a great inclusion for me, despite the more "casual" nature of the card. Again, your ramp heavy build seems it could facilitate this card well.
P.s. There's also the Sorcerous Spyglass you can run instead of revoker. Just a thought, I didn't test this card yet. Though, it seems that it would be stronger in the nic-fit version.
@MechTactical, Thanks. That's good info and the reasoning seems sound. I think he just ignored Wastelands and Rishadan Ports, both of which were wrecking me. I had a horrible time vs. Lands w/Exploration and vs. SmallPox Depths. Absolutely destroyed me with discard.
I "feel" like the builds with Show & Tell are strongest, based on the history of the posts in this thread, but then I see a Mox won with a mono-green build. I tried the mono green and wished it had been C/u/g. I also feel like Oracle of Mul Daya deserves a place in the deck, but I digress.
Thanks again,
Dave
I will Find a way...or make one.
Check out my wife! http://DanceKitten.com
Card Carrying Member: Team Mind Trick
Best.Fortune.Cookie.Evar: \"Among the lucky, you are the chosen one.\"
Noloam said, "i lost an unloseable game against miracles, where i accidentally tapped my tomb for lethal.."
Nimble Obstructionist stops the storm trigger, and also can't be discarded by Duress.
I've also found the C/g builds wanting blue for card selection, and I think into_play's build has merit (haven't tested it myself yet). Playing Oracle requires some number of Brainstorms and Sylvan Library, since your deck is usually less than half lands by the time you cast Oracle so blind flips are unreliable. I definitely would not just jam Oracle into the C/g build I won the Mox with.
I played with oracle before and it can provide some great CA. I played it in builds with fetches and gsz so that helped in terms of draw manipulation as well. That build of course ran library.
I tried 2 oracles in Cg with non of the above mentioned cards. It wasnt BAD. You have plenty of ways to clear the top of your deck for a fresh look. Often I'll have gotten a couple of lands off of oracle by the time its removed, sometimes even 4 or 5. There are a lot of shuffle effects in C/g or any Post deck really.
I didnt like that it added to the colored card count when it came to ancient stirrings. I ended up swapping 2 for more warping wail and an endbringer. Endbringer can be very good in a variety of matchups.
Oracle can be helpful with a bloodmoon out. It sometimes lets you ramp faster into money cards. Thats something. You can hit a land drop and then if you brick off the top grab smtg with map and play it.
Its best in a gsz build but its not bad in Cg. There are just better cards.
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Last edited by nimkee; 10-02-2017 at 02:24 AM.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but how are opponents needing four or five cards to remove a single Oracle?
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