Bob Depths

[Lexi]

Can you name 10 cards or so that you don't like seeing your opponent playing?

Weigh both how often you face them and how badly it affects you.

[alastair]

Petal seams ill suited, it would require a further cut but +2 lands and 3 Mox Diamond gives you additional utility lands and reusable ramp. Add a Loam and those additional lands start to really work for you.

[Mr. Safety]

I would love to add Mox Diamonds, but I don't have access to them. I really like that plan though. If I can trade/buy into them I definitely will move in that direction.

Petal would actually go really well with Wasteland, but I don't think the tempo can be maintained. I just figured petal gets me faster lilianas, and I'm headed for an empty hand anyways. Petal lets me use Traverse the Ulvenwald, which fetches combo pieces nicely.

I think I'll cut to 3 wastelands, make some adjustments and work 2-3 petals in. Will update after testing.

Another option is to just play more mana dorks, like birds. Not the worst idea, but it has the same problem as petal, it's really only good early.

[Mr. Safety]

After playing with this deck for a while, I've decided Wasteland just doesn't belong in the deck. I could still play a 1-of to get with Crop Rotation, but that seems bad when I get to my second point: Pithing Needle needs to go in. I know that I'm trying to make a lean Turbo Depths deck that can go long, but Pithing Needle seems just really good. It keeps my curve low and lets me play my utility lands (urborg, stage, karakas, maze) without fear of losing tempo to the delver decks. Tarmogoyf sideboard looks a little silly if they bring in grave hate for PFire. I might need to play something different like Bloodbraid Elf or Scavenging Ooze to attack from a different angle when transforming off the Depths combo post-board

Now for the craziness: I've been testing a red splash for Grove/Fires, and it seems really good. It shores up the fair matchups really well in the maindeck by having recurring removal while allowing for some great sideboard cards like Pyroblast. This is what I'm tasting ATM:

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Dark Confidant

3x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Punishing Fire
4x Crop Rotation
2x Sylvan Library
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Pithing Needle
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Life from the Loam
2x Kolaghan's Command
2x Fatal Push

4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bayou
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Blood Crypt
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Dark Depths
1x Thespian's Stage

Sideboard
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Maze of Ith
1x Karakas
1x Bojuak Bog
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Choke
2x Pyroblast
1x Golgari Charm
1x Toxic Deluge


Mana-base is ok, not spectacular. I'm trying to splash red only for a few cards, not trying to cram in the color like Jund. This is kind of like Jund meshed with a stripped down RG lands deck. Testing has been good, it can definitely grind out games. I've tested against D&T and Grixis Delver so far. I may want Hymn to Tourach instead of Liliana, honestly. It lowers my curve slightly.

The other option I have (untested) is a white splash. I have the lands (Savannah, Scrubland), the spells that I would want would be Swords to Plowshares, Lingering Souls, Vindicate, Gaddock Teeg, Knight of the Reliquary (but that gets me too close to Maverick/agro loam without the Chalice or GSZ, which seems bad.) I like the red splash better, just for PFire and KCommand. They both provide card advantage and reach.

Hoping to get some feedback!

[Mr. Safety]

I played the straight Bg version with Witness/Unearth, and I went 2-1-1. Beat new miracles and burn. Drew against Grixis Delver, then lost to Grixis Delver. I think PFire and Kcommand would have done a lot of work in the delver matchups, but I'm also convinced that Wasteland isn't useless. I will likely still keep 2 in the deck, just making sure I keep the mana stable.

[Claymore]

A similar version made Top 8 of MKM Europe, but no Bobs.

http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov...t-2018-legacy/

[Mr. Safety]

Cool list. I'm scratching my head at Cabal Coffers and Emrakul in the board. Does he really get that much mana? I see he's trying to have a long game plan. He's also doing Green Sun's Zenith and Excavator. Not bad tech, I just really like the confidant plan.

I'm not sold on PFire just yet, but still testing. I did find the Witness/Unearth combo very good, but weak to deathrite. So is Pfire, but my primary target for PFire is Drs anyways.

[filln]

Cool list. I'm scratching my head at Cabal Coffers and Emrakul in the board. Does he really get that much mana?

This is sideboard tech that I think DNSolver (?) explored during the heyday of Miracles as an uncounterable, difficult to interact wincon in drawn out games. Combine with Eye of Ugin, Emrakul can easily be searched out and "only" costs 13. If you have an Urborg out the Eye adds another mana and Cabal Coffers adds quite a bit, especially if you Stage the Coffers. This means you could cast Emrakul for as little as Eye of Ugin (3 mana) + Urborg (1 mana) + 3x other lands (3 mana) + 2x Cabal Coffers (10 mana net), giving you 17 mana with 7 lands... assuming I did the math right.

[apple713]

When you add punishing fires to the deck you are then just playing a worse version of combo lands. I have a midrange version of this deck in my sig. it is posted in the primer. My list doesnt have bob but you could easily cut a few cards for him.

[Mr. Safety]

I hear you there, I can see that argument for a worse version of combo lands. I am however having a fun time playing this deck. Maybe its garbage, but I've really liked the KCommand and Pfires, and I've added lightning bolt to the main over Fatal Push, which has provided reach.

This is the list I've been testing. I gave up on Tarmogoyf when I added PFires, because grave hate will likely come in to deal with PFire...so where does that leave Goyf? Sad, that's where. If I go back to straight Bg, then I'll likely go with Tarmogoyf in the sideboard and the red slots turn into some mix of Hymn to Tourach/Maelstrom Pulse/Abrupt Decay/Fatal Push/Go for the Throat.

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Dark Confidant

3x Thoughtseize
3x Cabal Therapy
4x Crop Rotation
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
1x Terminate
2x Kolaghan's Command
2x Liliana of the Veil

4x Urborg
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bayou
1x Blood Crypt
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
3x Grove of the Burnwillows

sideboard
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Pyroblast
1x Duress
1x Golgari Charm
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Sylvan Library
1x Life from the Loam
1x Ghost Quarter

[Mr. Safety]

When you add punishing fires to the deck you are then just playing a worse version of combo lands. I have a midrange version of this deck in my sig. it is posted in the primer. My list doesnt have bob but you could easily cut a few cards for him.

I couldn't find the list. The link just takes me to the Turbo Depths thread.

Edit: is it your list in the primer? If so, I could sub in bobs for the chalices.

[Mr. Safety]

Still working on this, but I think I've found a list that works. The hardest part has been the mana base, I've been slowly massaging it to make it work.

4x DRS
4x Bob
4x Hexmage
3x Thoughtseize
3x Therapy
2x Bolt
4x Crop Rotation
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
1x Terminate
2x Sylvan Library
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Kolaghan's Command
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bayou
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Blood Crypt
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
3x Urborg
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Mountain
2x Wasteland
1x Depths
1x Stage

Sideboard
2x Pyroblast
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Life from the Loam
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Karakas
2x Bloodbraid Elf
2x Toxic Deluge
2x Hymn to Tourach

[apple713]

I couldn't find the list. The link just takes me to the Turbo Depths thread.

Edit: is it your list in the primer? If so, I could sub in bobs for the chalices.

Yes it is my list in the primer.

[Mr. Safety]

Thanks.

I played the red-splashed list last Friday, went 2-2 (one was a bye, lol.) I beat Chalice/Bomberman brew w/Dark Confidant and Monestery Mentor, lost to Enchantress (I know right?), lost to Sneak and Show. Sneak and Show seems particularly hard to beat without full sets of Depths/Stage. I really liked Bloodbraid Elf out of the board, going to maindeck it and move more towards a traditional Punishing Jund build with Crop Rotation/Hexmage instead of Tarmogoyf/other utility slots. Like any other BGx midrange deck I felt I had a good chance against most decks, but some never a great matchup. Good stuff has always had this problem. *shrug* Deck is a blast to play, for sure. I like that it provides a way for Jund to have a chance against combo (historically bad matchup, they board heavily for it.)

[Mr. Safety]

I'm going to go back to the GitProbe/Therapy plan, straight B/G, and just maximize hand disruption and cheap removal. I had better performance that way with Depths as an actual plan. The jund route is better done as...just jund, lol. Punishing Fire isn't really necessary as long as I have at least 3x Abrupt Decay in the main. The mana was better, it was more streamlined, and I'll pursue it from there.

[Warden]

I'm going to go back to the GitProbe/Therapy plan, straight B/G, and just maximize hand disruption and cheap removal. I had better performance that way with Depths as an actual plan. The jund route is better done as...just jund, lol. Punishing Fire isn't really necessary as long as I have at least 3x Abrupt Decay in the main. The mana was better, it was more streamlined, and I'll pursue it from there.

Before Eli won with turbo depths, he had several versions that crushed our local meta. Two of them had confidants in the 75. IIRC, none of them had 4 in the maindeck.

If I were to play bob-depths, I would build around 3 creatures: just DRS, Bob, and Hex. DRS and Confidant are “slower” than the turbo variant but give you consistency in exchange. Cards like Liliana, K command, pfires, and goyf are all fun but not ideal. If there is another shell to play with (ie; not BG), it’s in Junk colors for KotR (the Junk-depths deck of yesteryear). Green gives you land tutoring while black is for discard and the creature base. To round out the deck you need some proactive protection in the form of Waste, Ghost Q, Decay, and Needle. Steppe, Living Wish, or Bojuka Bog are also important. Ramunap/Loam/Safekeeper probably go in the 75 in some capacity. I like the list on the first page however, I’d try to push Gitaxian Probe + Therapy + Needle for synergy.

[Mr. Safety]

Good thoughts. I was getting distracted, lol. I definitely want to test this out more.

[Mr. Safety]

This is where I'm starting from now that I can dedicate some time to it.


4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Pithing Needle
3x Thoughtseize
4x Crop Rotation
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Maelstrom Pulse

4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
1x Marsh Flats
1x Bayou
2x Blooming Marsh
3x Swamp
2x Forest
3x Urborg
1x Depths
1x Stage
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Maze of Ith

Sideboard
1x Karakas
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Life from the Loam
1x Sylvan Library
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Go for the Throat
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Toxic Deluge
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Choke


Sideboard is in flux, I don't think I want Tarmogoyf anymore, but I do want Liliana OTV in the board for grindier matchups. Go for the Throat is for stuff like Gurmag Angler and anything out of Decay range. Maindeck Maze/Pulse might be enough for single threats like that but I don't know for sure until I test.

[hymnyou]

Cool thread, love bob. I've been playing depths since early 2014, I started down this path in the beginning phases based off dark times in vintage. Here's a list of mine from 2015, this deck was a tank. Obviously I would update in a lot of ways but foundation is there. I've been thinking of going back to something like this. Got 25th at legacy champs at ew in November with updated turbo list so may stick with that, but this has a strong grind if tweaked right. I would def be playing collective brutality in an updated list.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=87633

[Mr. Safety]

I have been doing well in test games, the flex spots being hymn and pulse. Not sure if there are better options. I definitely want a 2nd Depths, but other than that the deck is tight (in a good way.) Mana is perfect, I give up speed without petal/guide but I gain a lot more resiliency with drs/bob.