[Primer/Deck] Pox

[LeonardoWilhelm]

Hey!

Did you guys see that Wizards released information on 'Dominaria' today? Cards, mechanics and rule changes. Do you think there is any viable addition to Legacy Pox in there?

[Hardcore]

Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.


Other than that it appears to be a severe case of lack of imagination.

[OmniStrata]

Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.


Other than that it appears to be a severe case of lack of imagination.

"Damping Engine" seems like it'd work in Pox, but yes, lack of imagination... Darn it! I want More Chimeric Idol-like threats... I can cast and damage you on the same turn... Only reason I don't run the idol is cause Factory is more efficient in long run... Actually threats like Bloodghast that could block would be nice. I'm a Poxer cause I wanted a good LD playing deck. For LD flavor to work, you need fast threats that can come early and kill your foe before they stabilize.

[Pittplayer]

Could Squee, the Immortal... see play in Pox with a red splash? He is more mana intensive than Nether Spirit, but he can play from the graveyard AND exile, making him better vs Rest in Peace and Swords to Plowshares.

[Hardcore]

Could Squee, the Immortal... see play in Pox with a red splash? He is more mana intensive than Nether Spirit, but he can play from the graveyard AND exile, making him better vs Rest in Peace and Swords to Plowshares.

I would say no. The mana cost is indeed prohibitive and stp, pte, is not enough of a problem for us. I am not sure it will see play at all. Too expensive for burn, and UR Delver has better threats.

[Fox]

Would rather have the original Squee and use it as recurring discard fodder without ever splashing a color.

[aslidsiksoraksi]

Yeah new Squee seems like a Food Chain card, if anything

The damping card might be a decent sideboard option. I'll prolly pick a few up if they're cheap and try it out

[Hardcore]

Damping Sphere will hit so many decks in the format that we can sit back and enjoy the show.

[kombatkiwi]

Awesome. I ought to start keeping track of my numbers.

Historically, Pox needs to control all 3; cards in hand, board presence, and access to mana. Otherwise the effectiveness of the cards Pox and Smallpox are lessened, and if we're not trying to maximize those cards, we should just play Jund. (or The Rock, or Abzan, or whatever) We also need the flexibility in our sideboard if one of those areas is irrelevant. We need something to put in instead of Hymns vs. Dredge, instead of Sinkholes vs. Miracles, and instead of Innocent Blood vs. Storm, for examples. That's why I think Sinkhole is important.

Rack Pox don't bother much with land destruction. It is to its advantage that people can empty their hands.

Trying to deny multiple types of resource at once is generally poor because an opponent with no hand can't play anything regardless of how much mana they have, and an opponent with no lands is going to be unable to do anything regardless of the number of cards in their hand. If you thoughtseize your opponent and then Sinkhole them, they are probably in a better spot than if you hit them with Sinkhole x2 or Thoughtseize x2. This is why you don't generally see people playing Thoughtseize and Stifle in the same deck.

I don't think Sinkhole is even bad vs Miracles seeing as their finishers are all relatively expensive and it also destroys Azcanta.

I agree that discard is bad vs dredge, creature removal is bad vs storm etc. But is there really not enough room in the SB to have specific cards for these matchups rather than just 'these maindeck cards suck, might as well bring Sinkhole in?'

Here is where I am at:

1x Nether Spirit
4x The Rack
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x Liliana
4x Smallpox
4x Hymn to Tourach
21

12 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Factory
4 Urborg
24

I think the above 45 cards are a lock

Remaining 15 would be like
4 IoK
3 Innocent Blood
3 Thoughtseize
3 Raven's Crime
2 Sinkhole, Pox, Cursed Scroll, Collective Brutality, Last Hope, etc

so:

8 Racks
24 Lands
27 Cheap disruption (cmc < 4)
1 Nether spirit
0 Dark Ritual

It just makes so much sense:

- Playing 4 Drops in your Smallpox / Liliana deck is extremely suspect because in many cases you will simply not have the resources to cast them
- Playing Dark Ritual in an attrition deck is awful because it makes your number of bad topdecks astronomical (you're already playing a ton of discard spells)
- If you cut the 4 drops then there isn't much of a reason to play Ritual anymore either
- 9 threats + factory might seem like a lot, but in a deck with 10+ discard spells you don't want to have a very low threat density because then you will lose games to your opponent having a higher number of relevant topdecks than you

4 Leyline is a lock for the SB
3-4 Ratchet Bomb too because you need outs to chalice of the void
2-3 Pithing Needle because it's just too good vs random stuff like Thespian's Stage, Sneak Attack

I also want to see how many Field of Ruin the manabase can support, but maybe this is too greedy.

Obv this isn't be the only way to build the deck considering Adachi Ryosuke's somewhat-recent success with Chains of Mephistopheles, Crucible, Phyrexian Totem etc but I like the way this version plays

[Hardcore]

Trying to deny multiple types of resource at once is generally poor because an opponent with no hand can't play anything regardless of how much mana they have, and an opponent with no lands is going to be unable to do anything regardless of the number of cards in their hand. If you thoughtseize your opponent and then Sinkhole them, they are probably in a better spot than if you hit them with Sinkhole x2 or Thoughtseize x2. This is why you don't generally see people playing Thoughtseize and Stifle in the same deck.

I don't think Sinkhole is even bad vs Miracles seeing as their finishers are all relatively expensive and it also destroys Azcanta.

I agree that discard is bad vs dredge, creature removal is bad vs storm etc. But is there really not enough room in the SB to have specific cards for these matchups rather than just 'these maindeck cards suck, might as well bring Sinkhole in?'

Here is where I am at:

1x Nether Spirit
4x The Rack
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x Liliana
4x Smallpox
4x Hymn to Tourach
21

12 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Factory
4 Urborg
24

I think the above 45 cards are a lock

Remaining 15 would be like
4 IoK
3 Innocent Blood
3 Thoughtseize
3 Raven's Crime
2 Sinkhole, Pox, Cursed Scroll, Collective Brutality, Last Hope, etc

so:

8 Racks
24 Lands
27 Cheap disruption (cmc < 4)
1 Nether spirit
0 Dark Ritual

It just makes so much sense:

- Playing 4 Drops in your Smallpox / Liliana deck is extremely suspect because in many cases you will simply not have the resources to cast them
- Playing Dark Ritual in an attrition deck is awful because it makes your number of bad topdecks astronomical (you're already playing a ton of discard spells)
- If you cut the 4 drops then there isn't much of a reason to play Ritual anymore either
- 9 threats + factory might seem like a lot, but in a deck with 10+ discard spells you don't want to have a very low threat density because then you will lose games to your opponent having a higher number of relevant topdecks than you

4 Leyline is a lock for the SB
3-4 Ratchet Bomb too because you need outs to chalice of the void
2-3 Pithing Needle because it's just too good vs random stuff like Thespian's Stage, Sneak Attack

I also want to see how many Field of Ruin the manabase can support, but maybe this is too greedy.

Obv this isn't be the only way to build the deck considering Adachi Ryosuke's somewhat-recent success with Chains of Mephistopheles, Crucible, Phyrexian Totem etc but I like the way this version plays

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...no-black-tempo

[Mr. Safety]

@kombatkiwi, I totally agree. Trying to control every resource is not easy, and really not feasible. That is a big reason for only using wasteland as mana denial, and smallpox can pressure mana against land lite decks, but it's more for hand/board control (and an out to TNN.)

If this deck could consistently control all resources it would be DTB. As it stands, it's really a grindy control deck that operates well under a depraved game state.

[OmniStrata]

https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...no-black-tempo

I love this idea 4 Poxes!! Sea Gate Wreckage is a no go for me. Ran into ugly situations where I couldn't pay the colorless... faq!!!

[Hardcore]

With all the brewing and testing people have done over the years it seems that;

*If you play Mono - B and want to draw cards then there is no better card than Dark Confidant. The drawback is that one can't really play Pox or Tombstalker in such a deck. Typical control decks run neither of those, however.
Kaya, ghost assassin is an alternative if you want to splash white.

*The dark side of drawing cards is virtual card advantage, and this is the classic Pox tactic. Thoughtseize and Inquisition are all praised but I have been seized and therapied to oblivion by non Pox opponents and still come back to defeat them. Card advantage in its pure form is the Hymn to Tourach.
Cards like To the Slaughter and toxic deluge are halfway there.

*For the Pox player focusing on land destruction there are four cards that work well together and should be in his dec. Not necessarily four of each however. Those are Crucible of Worlds, wasteland, sinkhole and Smallpox.


*Past Googling of tourney wins suggest that decks running two nether voids were more successful than those with only a singleton of the card.

[OmniStrata]

*For the Pox player focusing on land destruction there are four cards that work well together and should be in his dec. Not necessarily four of each however. Those are Crucible of Worlds, wasteland, sinkhole and Smallpox.


*Past Googling of tourney wins suggest that decks running two nether voids were more successful than those with only a singleton of the card.

Damn, I'll need another Void? But Enchant World kills itself off right? or was that changed like Legendary? When I got mine the high price was $400.00 now it's $1,000.00 WtH?!

[Hardcore]

Dunno about the enchant world, I think it simply was increased odds of drawing it.
A local guy have cast it twice against me (GB build) and those were effectively killers.

[OmniStrata]

ah, the world ruling: "This has the supertype world. When a world permanent enters the battlefield, any world permanents that were already on the battlefield are put into their owners' graveyards. This is a state-based action called the “world rule.” The new world permanent stays on the battlefield. If two world permanents enter the battlefield at the same time, they're both put into their owners' graveyards."
lots in the Mirage block.

I guess I could run a Trinisphere as backup. One game against a reanimator deck, I had both out... lol Mishras went to town. albeit was a slow... ride.... getting ... there... but a win is a win!

[Blastoderm]

Anyone playing Loam Pox? Don't know if that's discussed here, but I'm interested in building something with smallpox, sinkhole and recurring wastelands :)

[naynay666]

If you haven’t tried it- Quarterized Rack Pox is an awesome way to shake up a weekly. It isn’t better by any stretch of the imagination, but casting Pox is why I originally started playing Legacy in the first place.

24 lands
4 Pox
4 The Rack
4 Lily
4 Dark Rit
20 other cards. You know the steez.

The best advice for jamming this is to not be afraid to cast Lily into a FOW. If she eats it- good. Next turn’s Pox will hit extra hard. It also makes you care less about Daze, as it makes Pox hit harder.

I still prefer my brew of 0-1 Pox and 6 Walkers, but the classics are classic for a reason.

[streetMage]

Anyone playing Loam Pox? Don't know if that's discussed here, but I'm interested in building something with smallpox, sinkhole and recurring wastelands :)

I've had good success with Loam Pox at a few locals. Can share a list if your interested. No sinkholes doe..

[LeonardoWilhelm]

Hi there guys.

What an interesting discussion. I've always wondered about such mechanics as well. Controlling all resources is incredibly difficult, I agree that the most 'logical' approach would be to focus on an unique resource and blow it to oblivion, which is what 'Rack Pox' does so well with hand disruption, for example.

With that in mind, I want to share my two cents on the matter, which goes the other way around, opposite to the more 'logical' and certain build. I run a Mono-Black Pox Prison build, a wide spread resource-denial list which is a little different from the 'standard' mono-black Pox Prison builds you see around;

Land (25)
1x Cabal Pit
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
4x Mishra's Factory
9x Swamp
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland

Enchantment (3)
1x Nether Void
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x The Abyss

Sorcery (16)
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Innocent Blood
2x Sinkhole
3x Smallpox
3x Thoughtseize

Artifact (6)
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Cursed Scroll
2x Pithing Needle
1x Trinisphere

Instant (6)
3x Dark Ritual
3x Fatal Push

Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil

Creature (1)
1x Nether Spirit

Sideboard (15)
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Chains of Mephistopheles
2x Dread of Night
2x Engineered Plague
2x Extirpate
2x Massacre
1x Phyrexian Totem
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Tormod's Crypt


This is tailored to my metagame, which is strongly creature-based, but with a few modifications, it could easily become a more generic list.

As you can see, this is a wide, resource denial list. It attacks lands, hands, creatures and dreams. My first build test was heavily focused on hand disruption, but I found the strategy to be way predictable. When the person I was playing against knew that I was playing 'a kind of mono-black discard deck', he then would change his way of playing. He had information. He knew I would discard his cards, put 2 'The Racks' in play, a Lilly and maybe a 'Ensnaring Bridge' along the way, or something similar.

Here is where I think Prison-Pox shines. It is WAY wider. The opponent doesn't know where the next hit is going to come from. Will it be a 'Sinkhole' on his last basic Island? Will it be an amazingly random 'Hymn to Tourach'? Will it be a Fatal Push on his creature or a 'Night of Soul's Betrayal', shutting 90% of his creatures down? Will it even be a 'Trinisphere', making his cantrips and creatures WAY LESS good?

That sense of 'randomness' is a very powerful strategy which is not easy to be prepared against. It can destroy everything. The deck runs just one creature, the rest of it is pure, evil destruction of all things.

The downside is the inconsistency. It can just not work sometimes. I still think it is worth the risk, though.

What do you guys think? Is there more Rack or Prison Pox around here? Do you guys play in bigger fields and get the larger picture of how your decks perform? I am kinda limited to Death & Taxes, Maverick, Burn and Storm around here. I would love to know.


Best regards.