[Deck] Monoblue Control (MUC)

[C.P.]

Peter Rotten,
Also, I just wondering but what advantage does this deck have over landstill. It seems like goblins has similar matchup percentages except that it has a better gameplan against Goblins.

Not folding against wasteland or nonbasic hate is the biggest thing. And it is more spell based, and its sweepers are not mana intensive. B2B is another good advantage as well.

[Blair Phoenix]

Peter Rotten,

I think 4 Silent Arbiter in the sideboard will go a long way in shoring up the goblins matchup.

All you have to do is use your countermagic to keep the card in play, and you can really set goblins back.

Counter doesn't help when they cycle Gempalm Incinerator to kill Arbiter :P

[Doks]

And modern Goblins have a w-splash for Swords and postboard Disenchant.

Peter Rotten,
Also, I just wondering but what advantage does this deck have over landstill. It seems like goblins has similar matchup percentages except that it has a better gameplan against Goblins.

Well, U/W's Goblin-MU is not that much better than MUC's ones.
Against Solidarity, both decks have a bad MU.
Grow depends on the build and the process of the game, e.g. if U/W resolves an early WoG or MUC an early CotV.

Therefore, MUC has - as C.P. said - a very consistent, hardly attackable manabase - one of the most important points in a control deck.
In addition, MUC is not weaker in the non-goblin aggro Matchups.
And MUC has a better non-Solidarity Combo-MU due to its nature and - one of the best inclusions in the modern build - Chalice of the Void.


Some general:

Currently, I am wondering about the latest questions, especially the one about Fetchlands in the modern build not playing Brainstorm.
Is there someone who has got information available that shows the effect of Fetchlands so we can decide if it's worth to pay life for them?


Doks

[Complete_Jank]

Peter Rotten,

I think 4 Silent Arbiter in the sideboard will go a long way in shoring up the goblins matchup.

All you have to do is use your countermagic to keep the card in play, and you can really set goblins back.

What do you recommend cutting from the sideboard to make this happen?

Also, I just wondering but what advantage does this deck have over landstill. It seems like goblins has similar matchup percentages except that it has a better gameplan against Goblins.

Clark, don't want to be too rude, as I often see things the same as you, but Peter Rotten hasn't posed since the first post. You might want to go back through and reread some of the thread.

[Kadaj]

And even the first post was actually written by me >_>

In any case, Silent Arbiter was tested to shore up aggro matchups, but the only aggro matchup that we really struggle with is Goblins, and the uncounterable factor of Incinerator makes Arbiter really bad in that matchup.

The major advantage this deck has over Landstill is that it has twice as much (in some cases) countermagic, and a more or less Wasteland proof mana-base.

[Clark Kant]

Thank you for the well thought out responses everyone. :)

Clearly, I don't have much experience with the deck, I was under the impression that it had a very bad goblins matchup compared to landstill since the deck is so reactive and didn't have sweepers like Deed or Wrath/Disk to clear away an army.

I suggested Arbiter because I had started running Silent Arbiter in Fairie Stompy to bring in versus goblins and have been happy with the results. It's farily easy to lure out a gempalm. No one ever expects Arbiter and the card has singlehandedly won me games.

This deck has a lot more countermagic to stop things besides gempalm but also has fewer creatures to lure gempalm out with. So I think you guys are right.

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My last concern. Some people here seem to think that the newer builds with Chrome Mox and Chalice and no Brainstorm!! are better. This deck has done relatively well every single time it was played and none of those builds included Chrome Mox/Chalice despite being very recent builds.

Is there some unity to the idea that the builds with Chrome Mox and Chalice and no Brainstorm are the better builds. Or is it split up between those who like the traditional build and those who like the chrome mox build?

[C.P.]

Thank you for the well thought out responses everyone. :)

Clearly, I don't have much experience with the deck, I was under the impression that it had a very bad goblins matchup compared to landstill since the deck is so reactive and didn't have sweepers like Deed or Wrath/Disk to clear away an army.

I suggested Arbiter because I had started running Silent Arbiter in Fairie Stompy to bring in versus goblins and have been happy with the results. It's farily easy to lure out a gempalm. No one ever expects Arbiter and the card has singlehandedly won me games.

This deck has a lot more countermagic to stop things besides gempalm but also has fewer creatures to lure gempalm out with. So I think you guys are right.

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My last concern. Some people here seem to think that the newer builds with Chrome Mox and Chalice and no Brainstorm!! are better. This deck has done relatively well every single time it was played and none of those builds included Chrome Mox/Chalice despite being very recent builds.

Is there some unity to the idea that the builds with Chrome Mox and Chalice and no Brainstorm are the better builds. Or is it split up between those who like the traditional build and those who like the chrome mox build?

The goblins matchup is not bad at all. It is 45/55(main) at worst if you know what you're doing. Only two cards represents a huge problem for you that you cannot deal with quick enough, lackey and vial. These can come down on turn one and both will cost you the game if left untouched. However, that's about it. other threats in the deck can be dealt with the cards you have, and once morphing hits the board you will win the game. Powder keg might no look like it, but it is a very good board sweeper. blowing it at 1 or 2 will stabilize the game, with help of ophidian(if you run it) and veldarken shackles. Post sideboard, BEB provides even more answer to first turn lackey.

Arbiter is just flat out bad. It requires you to reach four mana, and tab out(unless you are thinking that playing him on turn six is good), then it is subject to StP/pyrokinesis/Incinerator/and other removals.

The deck is more permernant oriented than landstill, and countering everything is far from what the deck does.

[Clark Kant]

You have a good point, but lackey and vial are still 8 cards, on avg they see 2 per game but many games they see more. Many games I've played against goblins with other control decks, they often draw multiple copies of each, sometimes as many as 3-4. I don't mean you any disrespect, and I agree with a lot of your posts but I just don't see how this deck has close to an even matchup against goblins. I am in the process of building it however so I guess I will find out for myself one way or another.

[Doks]

You must know how to play against them.
Against Goblins with the modern build, I really try everything to stop the lackey - as it is written in the primer.
The point is: with CC1 and if they are on the draw you only have FoW [Disrupting Shoal in rare cases] which allows them to slip through the counterwall.
But chances are equal in a 60 card deck to them have the lackey and us the FoW.
I really don't wince when there's a frist turn vial. With counters equal or less than the number of 3 it is even not half that dangerous.
The Keg and Repeal really shine here and the Moxen help to build up the counterwall very early.
Then it goes like C.P. said:

These can come down on turn one and both will cost you the game if left untouched. However, that's about it.

Doks

[C.P.]

You have a good point, but lackey and vial are still 8 cards, on avg they see 2 per game but many games they see more. Many games I've played against goblins with other control decks, they often draw multiple copies of each, sometimes as many as 3-4. I don't mean you any disrespect, and I agree with a lot of your posts but I just don't see how this deck has close to an even matchup against goblins. I am in the process of building it however so I guess I will find out for myself one way or another.

Doks said it all and he is absolutely correct here, but let me go through a simple goblin matchup primer.

turn 1 vial/lackey is what you need to keep out of the board. Vial messes with how you control the game and lackey speeds up the game in a way that you can't keep up.

other threats:

Warchief: I don't like to see him on the board, but it is not the end of the world. In traditional build, blowing keg for him is not good for you because you lose your phids. If the opponent had handful of card, he should not resolve. If not, he is just 2/2 that you can deal with shackles/quicksand/factory

Piledriver: Yes, your creatures cannot block him, so he is annoying. But usually not worth countering. The chances are whether you lost or the driver is not going to get bigger then 3/2

Vial/Lackey(not turn 1): Depends. if keg can deal with these, then do so. If not, counter. but remember that both of them need some time to be truly dangerous.

Fanatic: Are you at 1 life?

Matron: Don't Counter tutors.

Ringleader: One spell that should not resolve for the whole game. If you resolved couple of FoF, then you might be able to deal with whatever that's coming, but still.

Siege-gang/Shooter/Kiki: Keep them away from the board if you can. It is one-ofs most of times.

As you can see, you really don't need to push yourself that much. In some games you do not see FoF or other cards to lead you to the late game and you are forced to go for the early morphling.But it works better than what most people think.

Any suggestion on the content is appreciated.

[Doks]

I don't have much time, so just a throw-in:

The big weakness of Ophidian is that it really is slow, sometimes too slow.

So is it worth a try to play Phid in the modern Version with its Mox?
Against Combo, it can come down turn two and becomes a blocker for Lackey on the play =D ;)

What's your point of view?


Doks

[C.P.]

@ Doks

One of the reason that I do not like the mox is the card disadvantage it provides. While ophidian does give you the cards back, it is slow. In the mordern builds, TfK is better than phid for giving you the cards. If you include TfK, I don't think there is room for the Phid. However, chalice for 1 and phid has a synergy, since the chalice keeps most removals in check, automatically protecting Phid.

So play it if you have a room for it, but I doubt it. Tfk is too important in your build to cut, I think.

[tianyuan]

From Planar Chaos:
Pongify - U
Instant (U)
Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated. Its controller puts a 3/3 green Ape creature token into play.


Lacky/Warchief begone?

[C.P.]

From Planar Chaos:
Pongify - U
Instant (U)
Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated. Its controller puts a 3/3 green Ape creature token into play.


Lacky/Warchief begone?

Then deal with 3/3 that eats factory/Quicksand? I like the card, but I don't see it in the deck. I know that you can repeal it, but that makes how many dead card against combo?

EDIT: Welcome to the source and MUC thread, tianyuan.

[Doks]

Then deal with 3/3 that eats factory/Quicksand? I like the card, but I don't see it in the deck. I know that you can repeal it, but that makes how many dead card against combo?

Right.
The problem is, that the problematic creature you handle this way still becomes a thread and puts pressure on you.

Doks

One of the reason that I do not like the mox is the card disadvantage it provides. While ophidian does give you the cards back, it is slow. In the mordern builds, TfK is better than phid for giving you the cards. If you include TfK, I don't think there is room for the Phid. However, chalice for 1 and phid has a synergy, since the chalice keeps most removals in check, automatically protecting Phid.

So play it if you have a room for it, but I doubt it. Tfk is too important in your build to cut, I think.

For sure, I would NOT cut TfK for it. ;)
I mean, in the past Type2/Standard MUC played Thieving Magpie just because it had the Mox to bring it online Turn4, because otherwise it would have been too slow.
Except in any pure Aggro-MU an early Phid may really be a thread the opponent has to handle - no problem if he/she uses a sword on it, that won't hit your factories.


Doks

[Poron]

Pongify + Powder Keg (0) or Echoing Truth is big..

this pongify is nice.. but already have answears to creatures..

[Doks]

Pongify + Powder Keg (0) or Echoing Truth is big..

this pongify is nice.. but already have answears to creatures..

Which ends up in an 2:1 trade... Not in the sense of the deck, for sure.


I tested Ophid in the modern build instead of Impulse (25 Manasources) and they were great.
With chalice one, it comes through almost all time creating big advantage.
I did not use the full playset, but 3 seems the right number.



Doks

[Poron]

doks may you share your current decklist?

[C.P.]

I tested Ophid in the modern build instead of Impulse (25 Manasources) and they were great.
With chalice one, it comes through almost all time creating big advantage.
I did not use the full playset, but 3 seems the right number.



Doks

Cutting Impulse sound great. I haven't thought of that. since you have TfK, you still can dig for answers. But Doesn't it effect the versatility of the deck? I thought the modern build gave up the brainstorm. Does this mean that You don't run any cheap dig spells anymore?

[Doks]

Well, I'm gonna share it after my tournament this Sunday.

Yeah, I do not run any cheap Searchspells.
Therefore, I pointed out the 25 Sources of Mana to underline, that I actually don't need to search for Mana (that was imho the main job of Impulse; 3-4 Impulse replace up to 2 lands, so cutting them means bumping up the Manacount [in my case to 25, 4 Moxen, 21 Lands]).

@C.P.:

The versatility is not affected as much you can think:
In the first turns, Impulse is great, avoiding a too early Morphling and collecting needed Counterspells, but later on it cycles more or less for nothing where TfK/FoF/Ophidian do the better job.
And this "later on" is the game state where MUC wants to go and reach for the win ;)


Doks