4 Card Blind

[jhhdk]

Yeah. I hate when we we have something that should be cool and that is broken in half by LD or Tabernacle...

Or counters or discard or meddling mage or pithing needle.

It's really quite tricky to build in resilience, while trying to exploit special rules for the round.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised how "obsctructionism" rules this format too, because without redundancy, recursion seems to be the only effective way to defend against it, most decks can't afford to dedicate a slot to play around it (cavern of souls, leyline of lifeforce etc.).

Tricky to be a Timmy, i guess.

(more after curio round).

Edit: about the emblem/token thingy, I don't care either way. I believe it wont matter.

[FTW]

5. dte: 41 - 3,4
6. Serguei: 39 - 3,3
6. Reeplcheep: 39 - 3,3
8. FTW: 40 - 3,3

I knew those DD-to-WL put dte ahead of me, but I didn't think by 3 places.

I don't have a preference for the Curio token. I think if you're dedicated to playing an "answers" deck, there are enough possible answers to run that you can attack another resource if you can't attack the Curio token.

[dte]

I knew those DD-to-WL put dte ahead of me, but I didn't think by 3 places.

Well, 40 being bigger than 39, it shouldn't :)

[Asthereal]

I knew those DD-to-WL put dte ahead of me, but I didn't think by 3 places.

LOL, that should obviously be turned around. I'll edit.

Anyone else preference for Curio being an emblem rather than a token?
So far it's two votes for emblem, one against and two neutral.

[Serguei]

LOL, that should obviously be turned around. I'll edit.

Anyone else preference for Curio being an emblem rather than a token?
So far it's two votes for emblem, one against and two neutral.

Token for me

[Reeplcheep]

#nolastminuteruleschanges

token for me

[Asthereal]

Thanks for the responses. I'm making a decision now, so we still have some time to build.
There's not enough people in favor of the change to emblem, so we're keeping the round as is.


ROUND 11 OF SEASON 9: DEVIANT LEGACY - PART 2 has started.

This round we play Bouncy castle: Each player starts the game with a Cloudstone Curio artifact token in play.

I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 11, so you can start sending me your decks.

DEADLINE: Wednesday the 31st of March at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Dauthi Slayer, Black Knight.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S09R11 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.

Happy deck designing everybody!

[silkster]

I was a little late to the discussion this week, so I have no complaints. I thought that the Cloudstone Curio effect was already weak enough that making it more vulnerable feels like it will only punish people who try to use it, which would lead to one of those "ignore the round rules and just play regular good stuff" rounds. On the other hand, I do like #nolastminutechanges. Anyway, token it is. I say this having no clue at all what to play.

I do have two questions about bannings, and how to discuss them.

The whole point of this is to play with broken stuff. I think the advance bannings on the 3/3 round screwed it up and let my deck do way better than it should have. This is said as someone who hasn’t thought about the next round at all.

I think we shouldn’t have last minute bans as it hurts people who put the most work into the format. If people wanted crazy formats it’s natural some of them will be totally broken.

If there's something really broken, why not just play it yourself? That's pretty much the approach that I've taken. In any case, I will be very curious to hear what card you were worried about and what similar replacements exist. For my part, I was really worried about Fastbond wrecking this round. It's just insanely powerful here. I worked for a while one how I might win some of the mirrors, and I had some ideas. And then I noticed that Fastbond is on our regular ban list. I can't say that I've ever wanted to play Fastbond before, so I never noticed. I guess it's not worth removing because there's no fair way to play it, so it's either ridiculously broken or unplayable anyway.

As far as leaving things to be broken and just letting them play out, I think the Dream Halls and WUBRG rounds did that well. Dream Halls was a bit repetitive, but there was some innovations here and there. WUBRG had great diversity and I think WUBRG would make for a very interesting bannathon (as would Berserker, or simply creature/lands only).

[dte]

If there's something really broken, why not just play it yourself? That's pretty much the approach that I've taken.

Because it's not as fun?
I am trying to win, but there are some lists/ideas that sound more fun/appealing to me, while playing one of the known lists or the obviously broken is less. I still play them if I do believe they are definitely stronger, but with less enthusiasm.

And here I am very enthusiastic about curio, it's a card I really like and with which I played at quite a lot of tournaments.

As far as leaving things to be broken and just letting them play out, I think the Dream Halls and WUBRG rounds did that well. Dream Halls was a bit repetitive, but there was some innovations here and there. WUBRG had great diversity and I think WUBRG would make for a very interesting bannathon (as would Berserker, or simply creature/lands only).

I think WURBG did that well, but dream halls I'm not so sure.

Otherwise, small banathons on many of the rules we tried seems great, it really solves the banning problem, while allowing you to play out all/most of the lists you thought of.

[silkster]

Because it's not as fun?

Okay, that's not what I was expecting but totally makes sense. I think we're probably thinking of different examples of broken things. I mean, usually my goal is very explicitly to find broken things. Perhaps I could ask: if Fastbond wasn't on the general banlist, would you have called for its ban this round or tried to play/beat it?

I've submitted for this round and still have no idea what could be good. I have a playset of Curios that I raredrafted way back when, but I don't think I've ever cast one.

Dream Halls round wasn't the best, but I was happy for the experiment. And it wasn't ruined by one thing being clearly the best. I mean, Guile kind of, but there were many different ways to round out your Guile deck. Not great, but not as bad as I feared.

[dte]

Perhaps I could ask: if Fastbond wasn't on the general banlist, would you have called for its ban this round or tried to play/beat it?

Good question. I think I would have call for a ban, because with it on, the format is not designing curio decks, it is playing vs fastbond.

I've submitted for this round and still have no idea what could be good. I have a playset of Curios that I raredrafted way back when, but I don't think I've ever cast one.

One of my favourite modern decks was Gu elves, with trophy mage. A deck that could easily win T3, but was also crazily resilient to removal (mass and targeted) thanks to curio and mages. Not a Tiers 1 deck, but very fun to play and definitely competitive. It is the only deck I ever pimped for (purchasing one kaladesh inventions curio & trini, old frame swords and bridge - not crazy pimping).

curio was also cool in legacy elves, before craterhoof spoiled things.

[Asthereal]

Deadline has passed, and it looks like I'm only missing Serguei. I'll give you a bit more time as I do work stuff, but don't wait too long.

[Wrath of Pie]

Dream Halls round wasn't the best, but I was happy for the experiment. And it wasn't ruined by one thing being clearly the best. I mean, Guile kind of, but there were many different ways to round out your Guile deck. Not great, but not as bad as I feared.

Turned out that Guile was actually not that great because of Time Stop effects. (And Tabernacle, which laughs at all the counterspells in exchange for losing to combo.)

[Reeplcheep]

The whole point of this format is that things aren't as broken as they seem in a true ecosystem.

I would have definitely thought infect was tier0 last round and asked for it banned. But it actually did poorly.

[Asthereal]

We're complete, so let's go!
Also, welcome to our new player PJim. I hope you have a blast!


DECKS FOR ROUND 11 OF SEASON 9: Deviant Legacy - Part 2

This round we play Bouncy castle: Each player starts the game with a Cloudstone Curio artifact token in play.

The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
You can also enter your scores in the Google Spreadsheet for the season which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

[jhhdk]

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot WW it seems. I have land recursion, you don't
2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought WL
3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth <--- ME
4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp WL i think, encoach takes my land OTD. OTP I think it should be safe.
5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask LL edited
6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton LL, resolved sphere is an quite effective against my deck.
7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton LL, resolved sphere is an quite effective against my deck.
8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds WL
9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem LL my deck folds to tax effects
10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember LL my deck folds to tax effects
11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle LL without smallpox, my deck is quite ineffctive.
12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize looks like WW, unless I am missing something
13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze looks like LL, seems i never get to untap for mana.
14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar WL Apparantly

Other decks I considered:
Sandstone needle, Burning-Tree Emissary, Burning-Tree Emissary, Grapeshot fragile and what i thought everyone was meta'ing against.
Bottomless Vault, Tangleroot, Call the Bloodline, Basking Rootwalla fragile, slow, but fun

[Asthereal]

Other decks I considered:
Sandstone needle, Burning-Tree Emissary, Burning-Tree Emissary, Grapeshot fragile and what i thought everyone was meta'ing against.

LOL I completely forgot about this. I was expecting half the meta to play Kobold combo, hence my Gut Shot. This would have been embarrassing.

[Tylert]

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

1. Asthereal: Stockland + removal for my chronomaton. 0-6 --> 0
2. Goblin smashmaster: OTP You can't cast anything. OTD You cast torpor orb first and you are able to cast your dreadnought. 3-3 --> 3
3. jhhdk: SPhere of resistance prevents smallpox. dismember kills Imp. 6-0 --> 9
4. Reeplcheep: OTP, sphere wins. OTD, you can encroach city of traitors. 3-3 --> 12
5. dte: OTP, it's a draw because I have to play sphere to kill walker. OTD you play walker first and I can't kill it and the token. 1-4 --> 13
6. PJim: OTP, I have sphere and wins. OTD, You can play bomb first for the draw. 4-1 --> 17
7. Wrath of Pie: Draw. 2-2 --> 19
8. Alphastryk: You really tried to play the rules of this round?? :) OTP, sphere wins it. OTD you can play your dudes then I kill denizen and wins. 6-0 --> 25
9. H: OTP, I cast sphere and wins. OTD, you can't kill me with lodestone before my chronomaton is 5/5. 6-0 --> 31
10. Me.
11. silkster: OTP, I cast sphere and wins with chronomaton as soon as it is a 3/3. OTD, You have a 3/3 flying T1 naming dismember. Chronomaton is a bit too slow to outgrow and race the gargoyle. 3-3 --> 34
12. FTW: OTP, Sphere wins. OTD, You can play tactician, but I can dismember it and play sphere to ensure victory as fragmentize is a sorcery. 6-0 --> 40
13. Maxx!: I play chronomaton, you kill my land and we trade dudes. 2-2 --> 42.
14. Serguei: SPhere beats gideon all day. 6-0 --> 48.

Total 48. not bad.

As planned, nearly no one plays with the curio token and the only who did so does not win a lot of match-ups.
Sphere of resistance was a good T1 play and good also OTD vs anyone playing combo. Dismember was added as a good catch up removal for anything played before I can land sphere. Unfortunately, lots of people saw that too :)
Props to GOblinsmashmaster for a good find that wrecks the combo plan and also puts a 12/12 into play and to Silkster for finding a nice way to put a 5 drop into play T1 (There was no better 5 drops?)

[Tylert]

LOL I completely forgot about this. I was expecting half the meta to play Kobold combo, hence my Gut Shot. This would have been embarrassing.

I think nearly everyone knew that playing combo was bad here. Did anyone find a T1 combo? I don't think there was any. Also, as it is a curio token, It's going to be destroyed / exiled etc... so why play bad cards that will get wrecked by 1 removal???
So half of the meta playing combo was perhaps a bit too much :)

[alphastryk]

1. Asthereal (TO): Bottomless Vault, Murderous Rider, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Gut Shot
Gut Shot! LL

0-6

2. GoblinSmashmaster: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought
Torpor Orb, eh? Sure makes me look silly. LL

0-6

3. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Putrid Imp, Smallpox, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
I win on my turn 2, but your turn 2 Putrid Imp without threshold can block, so looks like WL

3-3

4. Reeplcheep: Encroach , Sarcomancy, Sarcomancy , Swamp
I love the Sarcomancy value bouncing! I can't beat any turn 1 blocker. LL

0-6

5. dte: City of traitors, Hangarback walker, force of despair, unmask
Can't beat the Force of Despair / Unmask pairing. LL

0-6

6. PJim: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Ratchet Bomb, Chronomaton
I kill on my turn 2, and Sphere is too slow, as is the Bomb. However, you can just play a blocker on your turn 1 and that's enough to stop me, then Sphere prevents me from having a large creature while you can grow Chronomaton. LL

0-6

7. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
Same as vs PJim I think. LL

0-6

8. alphastryk: Mountain, Foundry Street Denizen, Crimson Kobolds, Crookshank Kobolds
This is me. I don't think this deck is good, but it was fun.

9. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Lodestone Golem
I kill on my turn 2, and I don't care about Thorn. Your blocking Golem is too slow. WW

6-0

10. Tylert: City of traitors, Sphere of resistance, Chronomaton, Dismember
Sphere Chronomaton again! LL

0-6

11. silkster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Vine Dryad, Metamorphosis, Voidstone Gargoyle
Now this is a cool deck, and it doesn't even need the round rules! Even if you don't name my one creature with power > 0, I can't beat a blocker. LL

0-6

12. FTW: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Path to Exile, Fragmentize
Seems like a solid control deck. I can't beat Path to Exile. LL

0-6

13. maxx!: Crumbling Vestige, Mishra’s Factory, Piranha Marsh, Raze
OTP, I get to attack before Factory can block, but OTD Factory stonewalls me. EDIT: Keeping Factory as a blocker prevents you from looping Marsh. WD

4-1

14. Serguei: Leyline of Sanctity, City of Traitors, Remote Farm, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
I kill on my turn 2, and Gideon makes a blocker on your turn 2. Looks like WL to me.

3-3

Total: 16 points.

...
Sandstone needle, Burning-Tree Emissary, Burning-Tree Emissary, Grapeshot fragile and what i thought everyone was meta'ing against.
...

This seems like the better version of my Kobold deck.

LOL I completely forgot about this. I was expecting half the meta to play Kobold combo, hence my Gut Shot. This would have been embarrassing.

Gut Shot sure got me!