Why? What Artifacts or enchantments hurt you?Originally Posted by Poron
For just random stuff like pithing needle on decree, or a jitte that is kicking your ass. I like it because it is so versatile.
I was thinking about playing the mirror, as unlikely as that would be, but would you choose to draw instead of play? I think so.
You're going to choose to draw against a random opponent with this deck anyway.
Allan and I were discussing fitting 2 RoP:Red's back into the deck, but I didn't want to cut Gilded Lights. Although it seems counter-intuitive, I'm giving thought to cutting the StPs. While Swords to Plowshares is far and away the most efficent 1-for-1 creature removal ever printed, it becomes a question of: Does this deck really ever want 1-for-1 creature removal? I was thinking of fitting 2 RoP's and 2 something else in those slots. Options include Radiant's Judgement, Secluded Steppes (if this option, it could be -1 Plains in addition, +3 Steppe), one or two Heal for extra Lackey protection, Rout for extra Wraths, Moat, or the 4th Decree.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I would not cut something like swords which just works against so many decks for something that is good like RoP: Red, but is narrow. I have been able to fit two into my build without any problems. Here is my list.
Lands
20 Plains
Creatures
3 Eternal Dragon
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Wrath of God
4 Wing Shards
2 Akroma's Vengeance
2 RoP: Red
4 Renewed Faith
4 Bandage
2 Disenchant
4 Abeyance
4 Gilded Light
3 Decree of Justice
Sideboard
3 Jotun Grunt
4 True Believer
4 Razor Golem
4 Orim's Chant
I was also thinking about Voidstone Gargoyle for the razor golem slot. With out cheap counters after Sbing, we can easily hold them off till like the 5th turn. With Believer down play gargoyle naming Wish and good game. Just a thought. Have not tested with it at all.
If you drop Gargoyle with a True Believer out, Solidarity will kill you inr esponse 95% of the time. The good thing about Razor Golem is he either comes down turn 3 before Solidarity can usually combo off, especially if you're on the play, or you have "counter" magic open.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
But it would make them rush a bit. Probably is not that great. What does your most recent list look like IBA?
It's not too hard to work around a needle or two, if you save an Abeyance or two to protect it hardcast from either getting countered or wrathed away next turn. Jitte shouldn't be a problem with all the removal. Jitte is only savage in heavy creature wars. Just concentrate on keeping the creatures off the board.
The only think I really ever want a disenchant/seal for is Smokestack.
And I really think x3 Exalted belongs in the main. It's a quick threat G1 vs Solidarity and can stabilize you against Goblins or other aggro / burn. He has won alot of games for me before Dragon/Decree becomes effective.
The thing is that often you don't have that much time to save up Abeyance for a DoJ for triple angels or whatever. When Threshold is putting pressure on, you really just want to cycle DoJ for 4 and kill the Werebear. Disenchant's been very good to me in testing, I wouldn't cut it at this point in the metagame.
My list hasn't changed much since my last post, except I'm cutting something or the other for 2 RoPs: what depends largely on whether I do end up cutting the StPs.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Well we are fine versus burn and gobs with RoP in there. Solidarity would already have killed you by the time you could flip angelon turn 4 quickest. You might as well just leave those spots open for more cheap counters or stuff for gobs and thresh.
I just don't want to concede every G1 to solidarity. It's not an auto-loss with x4 gilded and x4 abeyance in the main. but unless you have an Angel.. or a Jotun Grunt, I can't ever see winning a game before the SB. The earliest I would cycle Decree would be turn 6? Which would be three soliders.. and then seven more turns after that for the kill.. Forget about casting dragon. Turn 4 is better than nothing. And you should make it past that if you draw some 'countermagic'.
In other matchups, I've had too many games where I get two Decrees in hand in the early game before turn 7-8 which I don't want to see. I've cut down to two Decrees to fit in the Angels.
I just think that the Rune doesn't win you the game, it stops you from losing. I'm using x2 Rune but it's only two cards in the deck and I've stopped playing Renewed Faith for sometime now. If I don't get the Rune, I find the the Goblin players I test with will take their time and not before forced to overextending into a Shards or Wrath. So Angel is also a good play there to put them away early or at least make them commit their hand. Not to be painfully obvious, but this deck is SLOW. Angel helps that.
Also I've been trying out Moat as well, which makes Angel a good choice.
@IBA- I don't think cutting StP for more Lackey protection (Heal) makes sense.. unless its a plan to lead up to more Moat/Wrath/Routs. In fact, I wouldn't do it at all unless I wanted to go crazy and run CoTV main. (I've tried that and it doesn't work very well. Tariff sucks. :-P )
Angel comes down turn four, but will not when you the game for like another 4 turns. Solidarity can easily win, so filling a slot with a card that doesn't help weak MUs is pointless. Just devote your SB to combo and hope you can pull out a win. There is really nothing you can do MD to help the MU unless you try to ruin your aggro MU.
When you say "Rune does not win you the game", it really makes no sense. Does wrath win you the game. No, but they both help you in certain MUs. I say you need rune because as you put it if they don't over extend you can prevent. If they do, you wrath.
Angel is just not the answer to anything in my opinion. You weak MU is combo, but it doesn't help that and it does nothing to your aggro MU because with this deck you should already own aggro.
I would take angels out and add something like orim's chant which helps both MU and make your SB an aggro-control route.
I am trying to address the lack of efficient win conditions. I also run Rune because it keeps me alive longer. But Angel is better complement than just having Rune vs burn because you stabilize while winning. Versus burn or any random aggro.
Although I was reading back awhile in the thread and the consensus seems to be.. just to scoop it up Game 1 vs combo? Especially Solidarity? And come back and win 2 & 3 with the monster hate package.
I just get the feeling that with x4 Light and x4 abeyance in the main, it lends itself to some hope in Game 1 vs Combo.
Would you consider running Chant main despite the fact it doesn't cycle? I know it's good vs both Tide and Goblins... I've sided it in before against Goblins because when you don't have the Shards and need to prevent the alpha strike it keeps you alive to see Wrath.
Or perhaps a quick smaller creature that is effective vs both Tide and Goblins. Like Jotun Grunt. I've kept including a copy or two of him in the main since there's no more Scrabbling Claws. Prior to him, I have lost the occasional game 1 control MU by decking myself. That's a shitty feeling to make it so far and then fall victim to your own engine.
I think the problem with trying to make yourself have a shot game 1 is you are hurting your goblins MU and other good MU for a win in not that many games. I just think it is better to focus on your good MU in the MD and SB in the hate. You can just take out abeyances and lights and put in 4 chants and 4 creatures for gobos. For combo side it all in. I personally don't scoop it up, but you can't get to unfocused with this deck or it will start to suck.
I have thought about Chant too, but what would you take out? My list is really tight and I would not want to cut anything.
I am interessted in the Glowrider instead of the Razzor Golem in the Sideboard. So lets compare the two:
Of course a big advantage for the golem is, that he has a power of 3 and a body of 4, but i dont think, that his bobdy plays any matter in the impotant matchups in which he comes. The Rider has a power of 2, but his biggest advantage is, that he also lock down Solidarity! He can also come turn3 like the Golem, before the Combo-Player goes of, but he can both: he can deal damage and he also can stop the Solidarity player to go off for some time.
I am no big fan of the golem, but i realy think the Glowrider is better in the Combo Matchups. And I also dont see this Matchup so bad, because the Solidarity player must be so carefull agains Wombat, because we have so many cards, which can fizzle his combo.
Anyway: I changed a little bit on my maindeck and i play now 4 Gilded Light and only 2 Festivals. Its a meta choice, but i think agains Gobbos and NQG the preboarded matchup is just amazing.
@Jax- I don't have room for Chant myself, I'm playing Moat and Angel. From your list, the only thing I have cut is Renewed Faith. I just didn't find it helping most of the time. I'd almost never hardcast it because I'd rather see the next card and i didn't find the two life making too much of a difference, especially vs Goblins. I'd either usually either die by the Piledriver or not at all.
@IBA- I've tried w/o Swords. I find it kills the BW aggo matchup where often I need cheap removal when Wrath/Shards is out of reach from all the LD/discard.
@Wizards- I like the disruption of Glowrider over Razor Golem. It stops both Solidarity and IggyPop for a good while. The only problem I've ever had was an Iggy player setting an Engineered Plague on clerics.
So i want to schow my newest list. I made some changes in the maindeck and also in the sideobard.
// Lands
8 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
8 [UNH] Plains
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
I play the Flagstones because its amazing agains Armageddon and it just doesnt do more or less then a plains exept the great effect agains Armageddon and some 1st turn Land Destruction.
// Creatures
3 [SC] Eternal Dragon
// Spells
4 [SC] Gilded Light
4 [SC] Wing Shards
2 [RAV] Festival of the Guildpact
4 [SH] Bandage
2 [TSB] Disenchant
2 [ON] Akroma's Vengeance
3 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [WL] Abeyance
4 [9E] Wrath of God
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [ON] Renewed Faith
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 4 [LE] Glowrider
SB: 4 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 2 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 [DIS] Condemn
In the Sideboard i play the Glowrider, beause he can deal damage and he is also a strong argument agains Solidarity and Iggy Pop. Thats the reason why i play him over the golem. Seal is also agains needle and Landstill in general. The 1 Condem is just the 5th Sword against Deadguy and Gobbos
I tried running the Flagstones.. x3.
The problem I kept running into was when I needed to cast Wrath on turn 4 or the like, I only had a second flagstones to drop. I thought it was taking away from the early consistency.. but I don't play in a heavy LD meta.
I'd definitely play 1, but 4 looks like your bound to run into a speedbump early and often.
I sucked balls with this deck at a local tournament last weekend (2-4). What's the boarding plan for Rifter? I brought in Believers and Glowriders (which I think is right), but my opponent left Humility and Pyroclasm in (which I'm pretty sure is wrong).
Why would you bring in glowriders against Rifter? It hurts you more then them as they have more cycle cards and you have more cantrips? And True Believer doesn't seem very good either. The problem is that you didn't look at the whole picture. Where you asking yourself what rifter had in the board? Probably stuff to try to beat Solidarity, maybe a couple of needles, REBs and probably (since there was so much thresh) some crypts. That being said, why would rifter take out humility or pyroclasm since they don't have anything to bring in that is better against you.
In the long run, you hurt the matchup by trying to find an answer in your board. But does it really matter? That matchup is pretty bad for you already. Plus you did make several play mistakes including hard casting decree into a humility?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
