Asthereal also has one though?Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
They do still need to pay 2 to remove hexproof, but they can afford that
I should have stuck with my guns and kept my mouth shut.
9. Wrath of Pie: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Sol Ring, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria
1. silkster: Induced Amnesia, City of Brass, Mirrorshell Crab, Reanimate - DL
2. dte: Imp's Mischief, Show and Tell, Summoner's Pact, Hive Mind - WW - Iona is spectacular at ruining Show and Tell. Also you are brave, willingly losing to green-producing lands.
3. Asthereal: Karakas, Mishra's Factory, Leyline of Singularity, Memory Lapse - LL
4. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: Leyline of Singularity, Leyline of the Void, Forest, Nullhide Ferox - LL - Leyline of the Void is tech.
5. jfb1337: Devoted Druid, Swift Reconfiguration, An Offer You Can't Refuse, Walking Ballista - LL
6. Symbi: Balance, Talisman of Unity, Turn the Earth, Crashing Footfalls - LL
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Overmaster, Balance, The Rack, Crashing Footfalls - WW
8. FTW: Meddling Mage, Dark Deal, Force of Will, Snapback - LL
10. RoosterCocoa: Balance, An Offer You Can't Refuse, Autumn's Veil, Keldon Halberdier - WW - I accept your offer on Sol Ring, otherwise I slowly discard your hand. Either way I get Iona.
11. Reeplcheep: Tourach, Dread Cantor, Chancellor of the Annex, Solitude, Prismari Command - LL
6w1d = 19 points
I am good at beating Balance and Show and Tell. Don't ask about the rest of the format.
Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 11-16-2022 at 06:03 PM.
I still think you can win after show and tell if you stack it right.
Show and tell, put in hive mind.
Cast pact, trigger, copy pact.
Rooster must offer his own pact here, trigger. Before your copy trigger resolves, cast mischief, trigger.
Stack is: pact (D), pact (R), offer (r), trigger to make offer (d), mischief (d), mischief (r)
Since your copy of offer is not made yet, there is no way for Roosters mischief to have two offers target his own spells. You then make R’s offer target your mischief and use your offer to target your pact.
I actually didn't remember voting on it before. In any case, I see that I wrote contradictory things and I'm glad that it was pointed out before it came up. What I wanted the first one to say is that loops across multiple turns controlled by different people are allowed to continue (say Icy Manipulator against Grizzly Bears), but looping Time Sieve or Mindslaver is not. I will fix it when I'm at home.
In the dte vs Rooster matchup, Rooster doesn't need 4 treasure tokens, only two (well, really only one). I don't think dte can win.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
Oh that's very fancy. Also booh.
I have my own Leyline, which I put into play so I can use Karakas to bounce your guy.
EDIT: Never mind, I already had that draw. OTD I lose my hand, but OTP I indeed draw because I drop Leyline and Karakas, and have mana to remove ward and bounce the guy.
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
1. silkster: Induced Amnesia, City of Brass, Mirrorshell Crab, Reanimate
OTP I cast Talisman. If you counter, Footfalls draws. If you don't counter, I suspend footfalls then cast turn the earth + balance. OTD I lose to amnesia. DL 1-4, 1 total.
2. dte: Imp's Mischief, Show and Tell, Summoner's Pact, Hive Mind
You must use show and tell for hive mind, but then I put in talisman and pay for pact. Edit: Hive mind ties with footfalls OTP. WD 4-1, 5 total.
3. Asthereal: Karakas, Mishra's Factory, Leyline of Singularity, Memory Lapse
You lapse talisman, but then I cast it again next turn. This leaves me with 1 mana floating. I then suspend footfalls with talisman, cast turn the earth next turn, then balance the turn after that. WW 6-0, 11 total.
4. FourDogsinaHorseSuit: Leyline of Singularity, Leyline of the Void, Forest, Nullhide Ferox
You can't cast ferox because of balance. I can't cast balance because of ferox. Edit: I didn't read the thread first. WW 6-0, 17 total.
5. jfb1337: Devoted Druid, Swift Reconfiguration, An Offer You Can't Refuse, Walking Ballista
Offer + druid combo too stronk. LL 0-6, 17 total
6. Symbi: Balance, Talisman of Unity, Turn the Earth, Crashing Footfalls
That's me! T1 balance line is Talisman (3 floating) then suspend footfalls with talisman mana, then turn the earth with no targets (2 floating) then balance.
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Overmaster, Balance, The Rack, Crashing Footfalls
OTP I balance you. OTD you balance me and I die to rack or rhinos. WL 3-3, 20 total
8. FTW: Meddling Mage, Dark Deal, Force of Will, Snapback
I don't see a way to beat this. LL 0-6, 20 total.
9. Wrath of Pie: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Sol Ring, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria
OTD, if you activate Geier reach I discard turn the earth. On my turn, I cast talisman and tap it to suspend footfalls. If you attempt to reanimate Iona next turn, you won't have the mana for that and Geier reach. Then, I turn the earth on Iona and next turn cast balance, leaving Iona stuck in your hand. If you don't, on my next turn I balance leaving up turn the earth, then your hand will be empty and I can stop flashback rites. If you activate Geier reach twice, you must discard unburial rites and I discard balance and leave up turn the earth. If you cast sol ring with Geier reach mana, I balance and Iona is stuck in your hand. If you play Geier reach but don't activate it, I do the same line as you will only be able to attempt reanimation once. If you play sol ring and sandbag Geier reach, I do the same line and keep turn the earth in hand when I balance. Regardless of what you keep, you only get one attempt to reanimate, which I stop with turn the earth. WW 6-0, 26 total. <-- Disagreement Here
10. RoosterCocoa: Balance, An Offer You Can't Refuse, Autumn's Veil, Keldon Halberdier
Offer + Halberdier to wall rhinos stops me from winning. So suppose I am OTD. You must make a move to win, so suppose you cast balance leaving just offer in your hand. I then keep turn the earth and cast it for balance. I then cast balance when halberdier resolves. If you counter turn, I use the treasures to flash it back. If you counter balance, I use the treasures to flashback turn for balance then balance again. If you leave nothing, I flashback turn for balance then balance halberdier. If you sandbag balance, I just balance myself when halberdier resolves and if you counter, I turn and balance again. Edit: When I am OTP you counter balance, but I can use the treasures to cast footfalls twice and brute force through the Halberdier. Edit again: I think I win this OTD as well. You must do something on your first turn. If you suspend Halberdier without casting balance, I wait a turn, cast talisman, suspend footfalls, wait another turn, and cast balance. If you counter or keep balance, I turn and cast a second balance after halberdier resolves. If you counter talisman, I suspend footfalls then cast balance after halberdier resovles. If you keep offer, I turn for a second balance after halberdier resolves. Then you must counter, and I flashback turn for footfalls and win with 4 rhinos vs halberdier. So you must balance. If you empty your hand, I flashback turn then talisman, suspend footfalls, and balance after halberdier resolves. If you keep offer, I keep turn. Then I immediately cast turn for the other cards. If you counter, I do the previous line. I then talisman, suspend footfalls, and balance with halberdier in play. You must counter this, but then I flashback turn + balance before footfalls goes off. If you keep halberdier, I keep turn then go turn for talisman and footfalls, talisman, suspend footfalls, flashback turn for footfalls, second footfalls. If you keep offer + halberdier, I keep turn + footfalls. I then cast turn for the other two cards. If you counter, I suspend footfalls, flashback turn for footfalls + talisman, and footfalls again. If you don't counter, I cast talisman. Countering this loses to balance + footfalls when halberdier is not suspended, so you don't. I then balance + footfalls on a turn when halberdier is not suspended. You must counter this. If halberdier is in hand, I turn for footfalls and cast second footfalls. If halberdier is in play, I turn for balance and cast balance. WW 6-0, 32 total.
11. Reeplcheep: Tourach, Dread Cantor, Chancellor of the Annex, Solitude, Prismari Command
If you cast Prismari Command before I get to do anything, I discard talisman + turn and win with my remaning 2 cards. If you don't, I start with talisman paying chancellor tax and suspend footfalls. If you Prismari command after I cast talisman, I discard turn + balance. Then I flashback turn and balance. If you don't, I just turn + balance next turn. Note that you don't have the colours for kicked Tourach. WW 6-0, 38 total.
Last edited by Symbi; 11-17-2022 at 08:51 AM.
Disagreement.
Agree with Symbi. If Symbi plays out slowly and doesn't spend the starting G mana (Talisman -> suspend Footfalls -> pass), you can't win through instant Turn the Earth on Iona in response to Unburial Rites.
Objection! OTP, Rooster can cast balance leaving offer in hand. If Wrath keeps unburial rites, offer counters it and they will not have enough mana to flashback. If Wrath keeps anything else, offer counters flashback rites and then it is in exile. OTD Sol ring changes this. So this should be 3-3. Edit: Ignore this. Geier reach can discard offer and flashback rites.
Okay, DL looks right for my matchup. I was worried that paying to keep the Talisman might be good for you as you could theoretically get 4 Rhinos, but after paying for the Talisman, you can only do one thing and Turn the Earth gets forgotten.
WW looks right against Wrath of Pie. It costs 9 mana to cast Unburial Rites twice, which is theoretically doable, but the land gets Balanced away after the first attempt.
I thought Reeplcheep might have more play against you by using the shatter effect, but if they let you land the Talisman, you get saved by the fact that suspending doesn't use the stack, so you can suspend Footfalls and then cast Balance before Prismari Command can be cast.
With that completed, it looks like the cards joining the banlist will be:
An Offer You Can't Refuse
Autumn's Veil
Balance
City of Brass
Crashing Footfalls
Dark Deal
Devoted Druid
Force of Will
Induced Amnesia
Keldon Halberdier
Meddling Mage
Mirrorshell Crab
Overmaster
Reanimate
Snapback
Swift Reconfiguration
Talisman of Unity
The Rack
Turn the Earth
Walking Ballista
I'll make it official tomorrow in case any review is necessary (lots of decks are within one match result of joining or leaving the banlist), then open the round on the weekend.
Edit: The Brothers' War just came out, but I find it counter to the theme of a bannathon to be adding cards mid-season. Thoughts?
Last edited by silkster; 11-17-2022 at 12:43 AM.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
Sad I missed this one. I tend to only check this thread a couple times a week.
My vote is to make brothers war legal. More cards = more fun.
I think new sets should be legal as they come out
I am cool with both, but support silk's notion that allowing a new set as it comes out means adding cards to a bannathon, which doesn't comply with the idea of a bannathon.
Another reason to only allow cards that were legal at the start of a season is release dates tend to be all over the place. Often you get an online release a week earlier, or two, or a set is online only. All that stuff makes it harder to figure out when to allow a new set: paper release only? Do those differ per country? (Usually no, but it can happen.) The easiest and clearest way to approach this is simply allow all cards legal in paper magic at the start of the season and that's it.
The clearest way to allow a new set halfway through a season is to only allow it after the TO has explicitly announced a new set to be legal from round x onwards, and otherwise just stick to what was legal at the start of the season, minus the banned list of course. This way the TO controls it, and the players know what to expect: no announcement? No extra cards legal. Announcement? Then whatever the announcement says is legal.
When I was running things, I usually worked with the date for the paper launch for new sets, as stated by the official MtG website, from when the cards would become tournament legal in paper magic. But I'm not sure that was the best thing to do.
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
I think I actually beat Rooster OTD, but the method is somewhat complicated. The details on how are in my original post for this round.
Didn't read through it all in detail. Some of it says: Turn the Earth, then Balance to kill Keldon.
That draws, but don't you need to resolve both Talisman (for G) and Footfalls to win? In some lines it looked like you stopped after Balance, without answering how you get to the win. Or maybe it's answered much lower and just hard to find?
What if Rooster plays Balance with 0 cards in hand? I think you just barely win through flashback Turn the Earth (RG) -> Talisman (BU) -> Balance (W+talisman) -> Footfalls (talisman).
Why would Rooster balance?
If Symbi suspend, so does rooster, to have his creature arrives after the rhinos.
Then first strike beats 2 rhino, so the earth goes for 2 more.
Balance evens out, symbi can play two more. 3 rhinos do not beat one helleberder.
2-2?
It's possible that I missed something, but if I calculated correctly, all of the lines that balance to kill keldon do so with footfalls suspended. I also tried to ensure I had the mana for everything (noting that offer gives two treasures).
If Rooster doesn't balance, they either suspend halberdier (which I have already covered) or they do nothing and I do my OTP win. OTP I cast talisman, suspend footfalls, then balance with turn in hand and G floating. If rooster counters balance, I turn for balance (leaving 2 treasures), cast second balance (leaving 1 treasure) then I have enough for flashback turn + second footfalls to beat halberdier with 4 rhinos. If rooster counters talisman, I just cast turn on nothing, suspend footfalls, and balance. If rooster keeps halberdier, I wait, then turn for second footfalls. If rooster keeps offer, turn for second balance removes offer and footfalls resolves. If rooster keeps balance, they must save it until footfalls resolves, but then I have second balance before that.
You're right. You can always cast your second balance before CF resolves, so you win both.
I haven't had time to read the most recent posts carefully, but it doesn't look like it will change the bans, so let's go ahead and lock in those bans.
Since people seem in favour of Brothers' War, we might as well include it. I'm still not sure what I'm playing (I foolishly thought that Balance wouldn't be popular and had planned on playing a Balance deck this round, oops), so I'll open for submissions later. If you plan to send something in on Monday, you'll certainly be good.
4CB Foor/Ceiling Season Entry Form and the google sheet for scores.
Does this mean that Seething Song, Sneak Attack, Phyrexian Dragon Engine, Mishra, Claimed by Gix is legal this week?
At this rate we'll never see any goblins smashing.
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Reply With Quote