Here's 13th in a challenge and a 5-0 the next week. No Delvers, no green.Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
//Artifact
1 Scroll of Fate
//Creature (11)
3 Murktide Regent
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Thing in the Ice
2 Brazen Borrower
//Enchantment (4)
4 Dress Down
//Instant (19)
4 Stifle
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Slip Out the Back
1 Force of Negation
//Sorcery (6)
2 Expressive Iteration
4 Ponder
//Land (19)
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
60 Cards
//Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Torpor Orb
2 Brotherhood's End
2 Price of Progress
1 Maddening Hex
3 Pyroblast
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
This list, same player the only one who apparently can put up numbers with Dreadnought lately, has Kroxa.
//Creature (9)
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
1 Brazen Borrower
2 Murktide Regent
//Enchantment (4)
4 Dress Down
//Instant (22)
4 Stifle
1 Snuff Out
1 Force of Negation
4 Brainstorm
2 Slip Out the Back
1 Unholy Heat
1 Stubborn Denial
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
//Sorcery (6)
4 Ponder
2 Expressive Iteration
//Land (19)
4 Wasteland
4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
60 Cards
//Sideboard (15)
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Plague Engineer
1 Hydroblast
2 Brotherhood's End
1 Maddening Hex
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Torpor Orb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
Looks like the play is to drop the Uro and Minsc And Boo (Mi Booro, their couples name) and just play murktide yourself.
Murktide is good tempo, while Uro and Minsc are slow and mana-hungry. It looks like their plan is to go under UR Delver, rather than play slower stuff. Wasn't your green build struggling vs Delver? The above one should destroy it. It should have good matchups vs Delver, Initiative, Doomsday, random combo.
1 Torpor Orb SB looks correct. That card is still terrible to draw in multiples, and you already have 4x Dress Down main. Instead of adding more Torpors, they switched Meltdown to Brotherhood's End (kills x/3s). Smart use of SB space.
Mycosynth Gardens looks very promising as yet another way to combo with Dreadnought, and an uncounterable one at that. It also makes Urza’s Saga more worthwhile…
Turn 3 tap Urza’s Saga in response to its trigger for a mana, grab Dreadnought, and use that mana to turn Mycosynth Gardens into a Dreadnought.
More importantly, you can activate Gardens to copy Dreadnought in response to your opponent targeting your first Dreadnought with a removal spell.
With 4 Saga, the list can essentially run 8 Dreadnoughts and up to 12 combo pieces (Stifle, Dress Down, Mycosynth Gardens) that all have quite a bit of utility even without the combo.
The issue you're going to run into is the same one you ran into earlier this thread: you can't really run quad laser Dress Down and also make constructs. You end up having constructs in play and Dress Downs in hand that you are no longer allowed to cast.
What this does do however is let you go from 2 mana [EoT Dress Down] -> untap, play 3rd land -> Dreadnought -> if opponent ever goes after Nought, copy in response.
I saw this too, and because of the natural synergy with Saga my thought was to run something like a UG-post hybrid, leveraging Crop Rotation and/or Torpor Orb at the expense of Dress Down and some of the Blue/Red threats I was on. The issue I kept coming back to was "I just don't want to fold to wasteland" and I'm waiting for the full set before I try and figure it out.
Mycosynth Gardens looks very promising as yet another way to combo with Dreadnought, and an uncounterable one at that. It also makes Urza’s Saga more worthwhile…
Turn 3 tap Urza’s Saga in response to its trigger for a mana, grab Dreadnought, and use that mana to turn Mycosynth Gardens into a Dreadnought.
More importantly, you can activate Gardens to copy Dreadnought in response to your opponent targeting your first Dreadnought with a removal spell.
With 4 Saga, the list can essentially run 8 Dreadnoughts and up to 12 combo pieces (Stifle, Dress Down, Mycosynth Gardens) that all have quite a bit of utility even without the combo.
It looks strong. I bought it up in the Dreadstill thread too. But too many colorless lands is bad. You probably want
2-3 Urza's Saga
1-2 Mycosynth Gardens
The combo is great when it works. But if you go 4 Saga 4 Gardens to do the Turn 3 play, it means having 2 colorless lands early, which is bad for literally everything else other than making the 12/12.
There's no reason to hurt your mana when you already have enough Dreadnought enablers. It should be better to only use the Gardens combo only occasionally, rather than risk manascrew.
Last edited by FTW; 01-11-2023 at 06:44 PM.
I don't write here very often. But I play a lot of mtgo. Decided to brew a bit with Dreadnought and built the following list. I have only played 2 leagues with it this far. But 5-0ed both of them. Only changed 2 cards in between.
Maindeck:
4 Urza's Saga
1 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
4 Lotus Petal
3 Greater Good
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Endurance
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Dress Down
2 Stifle
Sideboard:
1 Hydroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Prismatic Ending
2 Force of Vigor
4 Force of Negation
If I don't reply here feel free to reach me on Discord instead. I'm quite active in the big UWx Control server (old miracles server).
I see that some of you mentioned Torpor Orb here, I might try one next time. Seems quite alright against the white initiative stompy deck, although I have already beaten it without any.
That's promising, very cool. How many times did you live the draw 12 or draw 6 dreams, or was it not a factor?
At happens very often, at least once each match this far. And it's great fun every time. As soon as you do it once it usually chains into another dreadnought if you want as well. So in the end you can usually pass the turn with like 3x force 3x blue, and another dreadnought for next turn.
I have stolen some quick wins of dress down (or stifle) into dreadnought (or double) but in at least half the wins I could draw my entire deck if I wanted to.
What is the typical play pattern where you play Greater Good?
Well preferably if you can play it + dreadnought the same turn, that's basically game over. But even just playing it the turn before a Urza's Saga goes off is quite good, there aren't all that much removal for a green 4cmc enchantment. Beyond that it really just depends on the match up and what your hand allows.
This hand was a weak 6 card keep that won for example (turn 1 saga, turn 2 GG):
Interesting strategy. I guess Greater Good is another way to tackle the fundamental card disadvantage problem and insulate Dreadnought against Swords/Ending blowouts. It works well in PreModern. I like that it works with the fair side of Uro too -> 1UG: Draw 7, discard 3, gain 3 life, +1 land. Then you also have plenty of escape fuel.
Greater Good seems clunky sometimes, but I guess you have Endurance to pitch it, Brainstorm to bury it, Uro to ramp to 4, and the SB to board it out for cheap interaction. Postboard it looks like a good payoff for Carpet mana letting you convert big mana into big cards.
UG lacks removal. Splashing white for Swords makes sense. Mana gets worse in 3 colors, but then Lotus Petal (and Saga-> Petal) helps avoid some manascrew, so you've already covered a weakness of splashing white.
Last edited by FTW; 01-17-2023 at 01:02 AM.
Yeah I have found the matchups against removal quite alright, Uro also lines up quite well against that. The fear of those Swords/Ending blowouts is also exactly the reason I didn't want 4 Stifle, they just invite for too many of those StifleNought openings that gets you blown out. Although it's still a powerful card. I hadn't seen the PreModern deck lists before, but they look quite similar! Great minds think alike. The first list I found of google now even had Hickory Woodlot which I have considered testing.
Yeah it's super sweet. I have even had a few times where I attack and then sac Uro in response to the attack trigger (like if I know it'll just get blocked by a Baleful Strix).
I have no idea how often it's correct to board it out. But probably a few matchups. That will just need more testing. Endurance has been nice both as a anti delver card, and to reset your own library mid combo. The fairly low green count is not great for consistently pitch casting it early against things like reanimator, but it has happened.
Swords is great. I also considered testing RUG (Bolt/Heat, Minsc, Fury, Pyroblast, Meltdown) but haven't had the time. I just went with the easiest most straight forward build for now.
I'm not saying the deck is broken or anything, but it's been good enough to have a lot of fun with at least. And drawing 12 cards is very fun.
I think the mana base can probably be improved a bit as well. I'll test 1 or 2 Boseiju next time as an additional out against Chalice of the Void.
Good point. Do you have a high enough green count to use Endurance & Force of Vigor on turn 0? If not, should you have other SB cards instead? (e.g. Return to Nature)
For example against Red Stompy you're probably cutting Stifle for Force of Vigor (and a nongreen card for Prismatic Ending), and it still may not have a green card to kill that turn 1 Chalice/Moon. Whereas Prismatic Ending & Return to Nature (or even Serenity) might be more consistent answers.
Boseiju's strong, but you also need a minimum number of blue sources, so finding space might be tricky. Cutting basic Forest could mean serious problems making Uro against Wasteland decks.
On the plus side, you do seem less weak to Chalice @ 1 than most Stiflenoughts. You've cut down on Stifles, and Saga + Dress Down makes the 12/12 without casting a 1 cmc spell. Or you can pivot into the other threats.
Yeah the green count isn't high enough for that reliably. That's why I added 2 surgical sideboard instead of Endurance #3 & #4.
Force of Vigor was mostly added as another 0 mana spell to cast after you draw 12+ or 24+ cards in one turn and want to interact / catch up on board quickly. In which case the green count is plenty good. But that might still be too narrow.
Yeah. Blood Moon is certainly very good against the deck, especially due to killing saga right away.
Yeah I'm not sure exactly how to tweak it yet. Will just have to test around a bit. The basic forest hasn't been great this far (not bad either though, but most of the time it could have just been any other land), but if I start adding green disenchant effects like Boseiju or Return to Nature then it would get better. 2nd hydroblast might also be good, the card has over performed quite a bit.
Then there are other great cards that I couldn't fit but that might be playable of course, flusterstorm, sylvan library, life from the loam. I don't know.
My meta has lots of reanimator, Sneak n show style and even Applejack type decks. Facing turn 1 fatties makes me sad. Is it a game 1 loss unless you have a StP or force for the entomb or other early enabler? I'd love to hear about how you would side and the game plan.
Here's a match of Nassif playing against me from stream earlier today. If anyone wants to see the Greater Good deck in action.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1712903566?t=5h58m45s
I liked how the list worked so well together, with cards filling several different roles. Nice job.
It is useless in multiples but Greater Good is such an amazing and fun piece of tech. I absolutely love it and it has awesome synegy with Uro. Allowing you to cash in Dreadnoughts for 9 net cards in response to removal is such a huge swing in your favor that I am going to make a 1 of Greater Good a staple in everyone of my green Dreadnought lists going forth.
Hello, I'm new to the forum and this is my first post so I take this opportunity to say hello to everyone.
This is my current list,
4 Phyrexian dreadnoght
3 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Lazav, the Multifarious
Protection/removals
4 Force of will
4 daze
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
research
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
1 Sylvan Library
Combo
4 stifle
4 dress down
Utility
2 life from the loam
Lands
1 Boseiju, Who Endures
4 wasteland
3 tropical island
3 undergrond sea
1 island
6 fetchland
LFTL interacts great with the deck allows you to recycle wasteland and boseiju, with lazav on the ground allows you to quickly reach uro or dreadnoght, provides cards for uro escape, is synergistic with brainstorm, and provides extra lands to put into play with uro's ability .
Thoughtseize it's the only card in the current meta (ur delver + initiative = 30+% meta) that could make room.
But in a more varied metagame its usefulness is indisputable
I am awaiting your impressions, although I have been playing magic since 1994 I do it only as a hobby and with a small circle of friends I therefore do not have the experience of competitive players.
Thank you all
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