'Mississippi River' (All In Creativity Technique Combo)

[Hajko]

Hi all,

As promised on Reddit, I've bought the deckand had a chance to give it a spin today.

Only 3 rounds with 2-1 result in the end.

2-1 vs maverick
2-1 vs ur delver (played against one and only Guillem Salvador)
1-2 vs ur delver

I've sideboard exactly like @ToasTer86 and found it sufficient. Although, I believe that it definitely need a bit of exploration (prolly will test out sky turtle, but will see...)

[Rationalist]

What do you think about: The sky turtle

Thoughts on Skyturtle:

Pros

• Better at removing hatebears against blue-decks since it gets around countermagic

• Better against Infect if deck becomes more popular (currently on upswing)

• Compared to Pyrokinesis, is often a better hit when combo chaining wrt critical mass of threats

• Has a secondary mode (this is actually not that useful but is technically non-0 utility so I thought I would list it)

Cons

• Requires Blue Mana rather than Red Card in order to serve primary purpose, is therefore less consistent (Red Card Count > Blue Mana Count)

• Makes demands of land sequencing that Pyrokinesis does not

I think it's a valid sideboard option that some lists have successfully placed with, but there is a real cost to running it and at least personally I'm not there yet. If you do choose to run it, however, since as of your last public sightning you were on 3x Mirrorshell Crab in the side, I'd consider whether the 1x Mountain should become a 1x Volcanic Island in such a list.

[Rationalist]

Hi all,

As promised on Reddit, I've bought the deckand had a chance to give it a spin today.

Excellent.

Only 3 rounds with 2-1 result in the end.

2-1 vs maverick
2-1 vs ur delver (played against one and only Guillem Salvador)
1-2 vs ur delver

I've sideboard exactly like @ToasTer86 and found it sufficient. Although, I believe that it definitely need a bit of exploration (prolly will test out sky turtle, but will see...)

I don't think we have any illusions here that these lists are fully optimized; if you test out various reconfigurations please don't hesitate to share your findings here.

[Rationalist]

The youtube channel 90s MTG has posted a few different Top 8 Mississippi River lists recently in their community tab over the past handful of days. This Simone Molaro list stood out to me so I wanted to discuss it a bit here:



Now I will confess that I'm not an enormous fan of the way this 75 is built in every detail, but there is something about it I find very interesting.

First the negative bits. I'm still not a fan of Fury and Nimble Obstructionist just seems like a worse stand-in for Mirrorshell Crab. I'm also highly skeptical of 0x Otawara in the 75, but obviously they could have specific meta expectations so that could be correct for this exact paper tournament for all I know. Also, more to the core of what this list is attempting, I feel like leaning this heavily into Emrakul + Maelstrom Wanderer leaves the deck more vulnerable to post-chain interaction since it will have a less overwhelming board presence if Emrakul is removed and this list is far more vulnerable to discard effects since it's on only 8x 5/6-Mana Starters (it is admirably sleek and focused, though).

One thing I did find interesting, however, was that they Top 8'd a large tournament with only 8x Starters on 5/6 Mana. [EDIT/CORRECTION: SEE POST #107 BELOW] While I still feel that's too low even in non-Black world, this might be a datapoint that the deck can afford to squeeze the number of starters down slightly while maintaining sufficient consistency, and the 2x Let the Galaxy Burn are currently a bit of an artifact of the 4x Archon of Emeria stock-initiative lists that aren't really out there anymore (at least as stock). Maybe it would be worth experimenting with 1x or 0x LtGB and incorporating a Boseiju or two into the maindeck since Deafening Silence is as popular as it is and Trinisphere is still more popular right now than usual.

Other spots where their list might outshine.

They are on 16x effective Red Sol Lands. That's a number to be envious of and a common trait I'm seeing in this (what I presume are) Italian lists that are Top 8ing.

Also here is a chance that 1x Chimera 3x Wanderer is closer to correct than 4x Wanderer, but there are tradeoffs there too, and I will confess that the higher Red Sol Land count seems the most relevant distinction here.

Conclusion:

I think I'm going to experiment with cutting the spell package down even a bit further and seeing if I can squeeze some Boseiju, Who Endures and some Tinder Farm as additional Red Sol Land for consistency and to power them into the list.

[Rationalist]

Also, one last thought in this small flurry of posts tonight ...

If this deck is now more "on the radar": How does the mirror ... work?

I've honestly never played it or tested it, and demonstrating would just start your opponent's chain unless they already exhausted their Techniques ...

[FTW]

Emrakul seems to help the mirror, because you get to take an extra turn and annihilate their blockers, so it doesn't matter what you cast for them (assuming they run fewer Emrakuls). Maybe that's the mirror breaker?

8 starters sounds low but maybe you can squeeze in room for maindeck Boseiju or Otawara by cutting down to 10-11 starters.

Mirrorshell Crab > Obstructionist

Pyrokinesis > Fury

[Rationalist]

Oooh, I'm dumb. The image above has less than 60 maindeck cards. The image I copied cut off a column to the right. They DID have more than 8 normal starters.

[rufus]

Also, one last thought in this small flurry of posts tonight ...

If this deck is now more "on the radar": How does the mirror ... work?

I've honestly never played it or tested it, and demonstrating would just start your opponent's chain unless they already exhausted their Techniques ...

You can chose not to demonstrate. The newly spoiled Etali, Primal Conqueror would be a little funny in the mirror too (but probably doesn't really help much.)

[Rationalist]

You can chose not to demonstrate. The newly spoiled Etali, Primal Conqueror would be a little funny in the mirror too (but probably doesn't really help much.)

Should you though? If you don't hit a CMC 8+ you'll get a selection of 4/5 random creatures and deplete your deck of Techniques. The opponent can then combo chain on their turn with demonstrates and go over the top.

Naively, I actually think Aeve might be worth bringing in post-board. Just go bigger.

[FTW]

I think, if you have more Emrakuls than opponent's build, then yes you want to Demonstrate in the mirror.

If you hit Emrakul and opponent doesn't, it doesn't matter that you started a chain for them because you'll get an extra turn and annihilate before they get a turn. If you hit 2 Emrakuls then you get 2 turns (more annihilating) and put Creative Techniques back in library.

If you both hit Emrakul, I *think* because theirs resolved first that you get your extra turns first so you still get to annihilate and maybe put back Creative Technique before they get a turn.

If they have multiple Aeves, it's a good counter to Emrakul (more bodies to annihilate) so that may alter the decision path, since storm counts both players' chains.

[Rationalist]

Well this was unexpected ...

[Eisenkarl]

Hi, I will give Marks list a spin at our monthly tournament on Sunday. The deck ist really fun to play and feels quite good at the moment. I am usually on painter but want to try something new. I think the deck is still under the radar. I will give you a short tournament report on Sunday/Monday.

Cheers Olli

[ToasTer86]

Well this was unexpected ...

Man the deck is really picking up speed. To be featured on this channel means something.!

[Rationalist]

Hi, I will give Marks list a spin at our monthly tournament on Sunday. The deck ist really fun to play and feels quite good at the moment. I am usually on painter but want to try something new. I think the deck is still under the radar. I will give you a short tournament report on Sunday/Monday.

Cheers Olli

That sounds excellent! Look forward to hearing your results whether you succeed or fall short, and most importantly any insights you gain from either.

[inked]

Is there a Throes of Chaos build that could use Imoti which if it resolves and isn't stuck in the bottom of the stack as simply a 5 CMC starter to hit a Throes line, then opens cards up like Mirrorshell Crab to be less bricks (as they become 7 CMC cascades with Imoti on the field)? Or is Imoti just bad? Obviously it's bad/unplayable without a Throes/Trickery build, but if you're committed to that? Would Imoti ever resolve early enough that Crab cascading becomes good? Other cards discussed in the thread as potential SB cards like Commandeer also work as starters with a resolved Imoti. Would become a pretty drastic deck building change I'd think since you're wanting blue for Commandeer, but can't run Keruga companion with Tibalt's Trickery.

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Maelstrom Wanderer
2 Mirrorshell Crab
4 Etherium-Horn Sorcerer
4 Sakashima's Protege
3 Imoti, Celebrant of Bounty

2 Commandeer
4 Creative Technique
2 Throes of Chaos
2 Tibalt's Trickery

4 Crystal Vein
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Dwarven Ruins
4 Havenwood Battleground
4 Svyelunite Temple
4 Hickory Woodlot

4 Sandstone Needle

4 Saprazzan Skerry
1 Otawara, Soaring City

is this terrible? Is it good? I have no idea and it's too complex for my brain to think if it fizzles too much. There is also the potential fear that it doesn't create a large enough board presence after comboing without the red base.

Fizzle lines would be like Imoti -> Throes -> Trickery -> Commandeer. That said you could Throes the following turn with Imoti in play, so if the second Trickery hits Commandeer at least Commandeer now cascades. Ditto Crab. Imoti -> Trickery and choose not to cast, but have Commandeer in hand might be a fizzle, but then restarts with Imoti in play.

I am 98% sure this is just worse than almost every post in the thread, but it's been on my mind so I thought I'd share. It's one saving grace is it has interaction against unwinnable cards (also the landbase needs reworking I used cards I have access to).

[Eisenkarl]

That sounds excellent! Look forward to hearing your results whether you succeed or fall short, and most importantly any insights you gain from either.

Hi @ll,

we had our monthly Legacy tournament here in North Rhine-Westphalia State, Germany with 70 Players. I played this list:

Maindeck:
4 Boarding Party
4 Maelstrom Wanderer
3 Aurora Phoenix
2 Sweet-Gum Recluse
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Creative Technique
2 Let the Galaxy Burn
4 Gemstone Caverns
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Saprazzan Skerry
4 Hickory Woodlot
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Dwarven Ruins
4 Otawara, Soaring City
3 Crystal Vein
3 Sulfur Vent
1 Havenwood Battleground
1 Mountain
Σ 60

Sideboard:
4 Throes of Chaos
4 Pyrokinesis
3 Mirrorshell Crab
2 Tibalt's Trickery
1 Maddening Hex
1 Aeve, Progenitor Ooze
Σ 15


Round 1: 1-2 vs Mono W Dreadnought
Combo win Game 1, Game 2 I combo off into Crab and die to beatdown, Game 3 Thorn and two early Dreadnoughts stop me from winning

Round 2: 2-0 vs UR Control
Two easy Combo wins

Round 3: 2-0 vs Painter
Game 1 I don´t see much of my opponents deck and I think he is on Mono Red Stompy and board in fast combo with Throes and Trickery because of trinisphere. Game 2 I see he´s on Painter. He destroys one of my lands with blast to buy some time. He plays Enigneer to put ensnaring bridge in the bin. When I go into combo, goblin engineer could switch Painter for Bridge, so my plan is to put as much as possible onto the table and wait for Otawara. Then my oponent ofers the shake hands to me, he made a mistake and attacked with engineer in his turn.

Round 4: 1-2 vs Colorless Post
Game 1 Combo win by me with Emrakul hit, Game 2 I think he hits Warping Wail and counters my Technique and kills me with Ugin, Game 3 Technique does not hit for lethal and he plays all is dust, I can´t find any combo piece and he finds Trinisphere

Round 5: 2-1 vs Mirror Match
A friend of mine build Mississippi River as well (different list) and I didn´t know before we met at the venue. Game 1 + 2 The starter won the match. (I couldn´t find Cavern or fast Combo). Game 3 was crazy. I mulliganed for the fast combo but couldn´t find it. However i can combo first he counters with crab. Then I combo again but only find Wanderer and Crab if remember correctly. He plays CT and hits CT into Crab I can attack for lethal next turn.

Round 6: 2-1 vs 4c Control
Game 1 Combo Win, Game 2 he hits a counter with CT and has FOW to stop my combo and kills me with Minsc. Game 3 I play CT he counters with flusterstorm but I can pay for the copy, he plays surgical on CT but I hit Wanderer with the copy and some creatures thats enough

Round 7 1-2 vs Death Shadow
Game 1 Combo Win, Game 2 he finds Hydroblast in CT and has a second counter, Game 3 he has double FOW and I can´t find another enabler in 3 turns

Overall I finished 24 th place. Last game was win and in for prizes. Deck feels quite good and all people had a lot of fun and smiled about the crazy stuff we are doing with this deck I think I need more matches to learn the right mulligans.
The only change to the Maindeck I will do is to put a second Emrakul in the deck, because a lot of times I had Emrakul on my hand.

That´s it for today.

Keep being creative.

Cheers Olli

[Rationalist]

Overall I finished 24 th place. Last game was win and in for prizes. Deck feels quite good and all people had a lot of fun and smiled about the crazy stuff we are doing with this deck I think I need more matches to learn the right mulligans.

Cheers Olli

Thanks for the report.

I'd be curious to know the logic behind bringing in Mirrorshell Crab vs. Mono-W Painter. Was there a card I'm not thinking of you were particularly afraid of?

Also, by the sounds of it I'm assuming you didn't demonstrate the chain-starter vs. Post since you say the combo was stopped by 1x Warping Wail. Is this accurate or is there something I'm missing here.

Is there a Throes of Chaos build that could use Imoti which if it resolves and isn't stuck in the bottom of the stack as simply a 5 CMC starter to hit a Throes line, then opens cards up like Mirrorshell Crab to be less bricks (as they become 7 CMC cascades with Imoti on the field)? Or is Imoti just bad?

I'm pretty sure Imoti is just bad. He's very hard to cast, turns on lightning bolt and red blast, does nothing vs Karakas, uses up depletion counters, is slow, exposes creative technique to countermagic just by being in the deck when it gets hit off the initial copy, even worse gets hit himself off of Cascade to brick the entire combo with a Cascade starter just by being in the deck, is air that doesn't turn on the combo when you need a starter, all to ... be a Fow-able piece of insulation against one copy of Fow when he's in your hand that some countermagic (flusterstorm / mindbreak trap) just gets around anyways? I don't understand why you'd want to force them to force him just so you can combo the next turn with protection against their Fow when you could just play combo that turn instead, let that soak up their countermagic (twice as much re: FoW) and then just combo again the next turn.

I'm having trouble seeing what he does that would be any good.

Obviously it's bad/unplayable without a Throes/Trickery build, but if you're committed to that?

That seems like it makes him worse, right? Now he still has all the faults above but now is even more of a risk of bricking the combo since you need to "cascade up" with Trickery additionally, both and the start of the combo and sporatically during it, and now he also doesn't protect your combo-starter from FoW at all.

I don't see how Throes/Trickery makes him better. Unless there's something I'm not seeing here it seems like it makes him even worse.

(list)

is this terrible? Is it good? I have no idea and it's too complex for my brain to think if it fizzles too much.

Respectfully I think it's terrible. Let's focus on what you're trying to do, though, at a basic level. It seems like you want a Commandeer version of the deck? That might well be possible, but you would not want Imoti (since I would argue he's horrible all-around), you would not want maindeck Mirrorshell Crabs (since you'd be throwing more bricks for technique on top of the bricks for technique you're already trying to add), and you want not want to be on Throes/Chaos (since Throes/Chaos exacerbates any potential bricks in the deck).

A Commandeer version of the deck, to the degree that would be any good, would presumably want to run Keruga companion for the ability to generate a blue card in hand for (3), the quadruple-cascade Chimera to insulate against the bricking of Commandeer, and want to use the Flash cascaders to try to squeeze value off of the risk of hitting Commandeer by comboing while they have a spell on the stack. It's a very large ask and I doubt the juice is worth the squeeze, but if that's the direction you want to explore that's the way I'd start that exploration.

[Rationalist]

[Eisenkarl]

Thanks for the report.

I'd be curious to know the logic behind bringing in Mirrorshell Crab vs. Mono-W Painter. Was there a card I'm not thinking of you were particularly afraid of?

Also, by the sounds of it I'm assuming you didn't demonstrate the chain-starter vs. Post since you say the combo was stopped by 1x Warping Wail. Is this accurate or is there something I'm missing here.

Hi,

I knew my opponent from other tournaments, after Game 1 I thought he is on his UW artifact pile and was afraid of FOW.

Vs Post I demonstrated the CT and didn´t expect that he plays Warping Wail out of the sideboard ... lessons learned ...

Regards Olli

[Rationalist]

Hi,

I knew my opponent from other tournaments, after Game 1 I thought he is on his UW artifact pile and was afraid of FOW.

Vs Post I demonstrated the CT and didn´t expect that he plays Warping Wail out of the sideboard ... lessons learned ...

Regards Olli

Hi Olli.

Thanks for the clarification.

Demonstrated CT should actually get around a Warping Wail, though, right? If you demonstrate, he only counters one of the copies so you should still combo off.

Also, in general, I don't think you need to bring in Mirrorshell Crab to fight FoW. The deck is designed to not need to fight FoW. If you demonstrate, FoW doesn't stop the combo. That's the whole point of the deck.