Protection From Everything (Almost) All the Time in a colorless shell

[Daniel Worobec]

Protection From Everything (Almost) All the Time in a colorless shell



I think I am onto something.

The One Ring has made some impact on Legacy colorless deck designs. The first ability that gives you protection from everything can be very effective. I do believe that by making some very small modifications to existing decks (as listed below) you can sustain being protected from everything.

Some of the things colorless decks have in common are big mana, Karn, the Great Creator, Urza’s Saga and now The One Ring. I believe that by adding a single Obelisk of Undoing to the main deck and The Stasis Coffin to the sideboard can have a significant impact on protecting yourself. Obelisk of Undoing can be used to bounce The One Ring to your hand to cast again to have constant use of the protection from everything ability and can also reset the burden counters so they don’t kill you in the long game. Being able to fetch with Urza’s Saga and with card advantage from things like Mystic Forge, Obelisk of Undoing can be found relatively easy while only having as a one of in the deck (and maybe one in the sideboard for Karn, the Great Creator). Though the amount of mana to loop The One Ring with Obelisk of Undoing is expensive, usually you can produce enough mana to sustain the combo after a couple of turns in the right deck. You usually only really need protection from everything after a couple of turns when you are at a lower amount of life and your opponent has built up a significant board. If your fast combo fails to win the game after the first couple of turns or if you need more time to win with your combo, you can protect yourself long enough till you are ready. Obelisk of Undoing can also be used to bounce your own Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for unlimited turns if you get enough mana.

Since so many of these style decks use Karn, the Great Creator, adding a single The Stasis Coffin to your sideboard may be of an advantage. Karn, the Great Creator can be used to wish for and reoccur The Stasis Coffin. By itself it may not be too effective, however when used with the availability of four The One Ring in the main deck and the ability to reoccur The One Ring with Obelisk of Undoing, you may be able to sustain a protection from everything often.

Reoccurring protection from everything may also keep you alive long enough to establish a Karn, the Great Creator and Mycosynth Lattice lock.

As for protecting the combo I see that most decks have multiple Defense Grids in the main deck already. And if you are going to be sustaining protection from everything for multiple turns, over time you may have multiple Defense Grids on the battlefield to protect your combo as your opponent builds up their mana availability. Hope of Ghirapur can also be used in addition to Defense Grid. Hope of Ghirapur can be used as protection against an opponent’s interaction for a turn, in some circumstances as a Time Walk from your opponent casting things during their turn, can be fetched with Urza’s Saga, can be wished for by Karn, the Great Creator and can be a blocker if necessary in such cases of Dark Depths.

Below are listed some successful deck lists that can benefit from having one Obelisk of Undoing added to the main deck and one The Stasis Coffin added to the sideboard. Again these are some very small alterations that I believe can have a large impact as described above.

Deck by Xerk, 3rd place 5-0
Legacy Challenge 32, 2023/07/01
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5709226#paper

Main Deck:
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Manifold Key
1x Mishra’s Research Desk
4x Voltaic Key
4x Defense Grid
4x Grim Monolith
4x Basalt Monolith
3x Mystic Forge
4x The One Ring
3x Paradox Engine
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
2x Crystal Vein
1x Inventors’ Fair
1x Swamp
4x Urza’s Saga

Sideboard:
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Walking Ballista
3x Dismember
1x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Leyline of the Void
1x Mystic Forge
1x Paradox Engine
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1x Mycosynth Lattice

Deck by Cherryxman, 5th place 5-0
Legacy Challenge 32 2023-07-01
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5709219#paper

Main Deck:
1x Walking Ballista
4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Echo of Eons
3x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Manifold Key
4x Defense Grid
4x Grim Monolith
4x Mystic Forge
3x The One Ring
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
3x Crystal Vein
4x Urza’s Saga

Sideboard:
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Mesmeric Orb
3x Dismember
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
4x Leyline of the Void
1x The One Ring
1x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1x Mycosynth Lattice

Deck by ChrisMCNasty, 6-3
$10L Legacy – SCG CON Baltimore – Saturday – 9:00 am, June 17, 2023
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5681172#paper

Main Deck:
2x Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x Karn, the Great Creator
2x Ugin, the Ineffable
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2x All Is Dust
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
2x Manifold Key
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Voltaic Key
4x Grim Monolith
1x The Stone Brain
1x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Trinisphere
2x The One Ring
2x Thran Dynamo
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
1x Karakas
3x Urza’s Saga
3x Vesuva
2x Wasteland

Sideboard:
1x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x The Stone Brain
3x Warping Wail
1x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Faerie Macabre
1x The One Ring
1x Golos, Tireless Pilgrim
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

[FTW]

Thanks for starting this thread. I was looking for one.

The One Ring looks powerful in a colorless shell.

Thraben U did a recent video on it. But his build failed, often struggling to hit 4 mana (getting blown out by mana denial) or running out of gas (getting blown out by disruption on the 1-2 payoffs in hand). I think it needs a bit more mana and gas to get over the top. LED + Echo could help. He also had only 8 Sol Lands. It seemed too low. Crystal Vein seems important.

To make room for all the mana and engine pieces, there isn't much room for other cute stuff.


//Minimum Mana: 28
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Inventors' Fair

4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Grim Monolith

//Untaps: 11
4 Voltaic Key
4 Manifold Key
3 Paradox Engine

//Payoffs: 11
4 The One Ring
4 Karn, the Great Creator
3 Mystic Forge

//Karnboard: 5
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mystic Forge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship


That leaves only 10 slots left main. Could cut 1 Ring (Karnboard) and/or 1 land to make 2 more slots.

For those remaining slots I would prioritize:
4 Defense Grid -> protection
Echo of Eons + Lion's Eye Diamond -> mana + gas

Basalt Monolith is cute but fights for space with gas.

Emrakul is win-more unless you face a lot of Painter. Ballista will do.

The Obelisk of Undoing + Stasis Coffin is cool tech, but again, it fights for space in a tight list. They don't do much on their own unless you already have gas out. Is there room? Is that space better used on mana or gas? Remember you can regain protection from everything by drawing into a 2nd One Ring (untaps, Karn, Echo). Stasis Coffin costs more (5 mana) than just casting a Ring out of the wishboard (4 mana). Mana is often the bottleneck when you're not in a win-more state, so the 6 mana for Obelisk or 5 mana for Coffin could be tougher than just digging into another Ring.

Hope of Ghirapur looks good though. Edit: Although it lines up badly against a Bowmasters meta.

[Daniel Worobec]

Thanks for starting this thread. I was looking for one.

The One Ring looks powerful in a colorless shell.

Thraben U did a recent video on it. But his build failed, often struggling to hit 4 mana (getting blown out by mana denial) or running out of gas (getting blown out by disruption on the 1-2 payoffs in hand). I think it needs a bit more mana and gas to get over the top. LED + Echo could help. He also had only 8 Sol Lands. It seemed too low. Crystal Vein seems important.

To make room for all the mana and engine pieces, there isn't much room for other cute stuff.


//Minimum Mana: 28
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Inventors' Fair

4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Grim Monolith

//Untaps: 11
4 Voltaic Key
4 Manifold Key
3 Paradox Engine

//Payoffs: 11
4 The One Ring
4 Karn, the Great Creator
3 Mystic Forge

//Karnboard: 5
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mystic Forge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship


That leaves only 10 slots left main. Could cut 1 Ring (Karnboard) and/or 1 land to make 2 more slots.

For those remaining slots I would prioritize:
4 Defense Grid -> protection
Echo of Eons + Lion's Eye Diamond -> mana + gas

Basalt Monolith is cute but fights for space with gas.

Emrakul is win-more unless you face a lot of Painter. Ballista will do.

The Obelisk of Undoing + Stasis Coffin is cool tech, but again, it fights for space in a tight list. They don't do much on their own unless you already have gas out. Is there room? Is that space better used on mana or gas? Remember you can regain protection from everything by drawing into a 2nd One Ring (untaps, Karn, Echo). Stasis Coffin costs more (5 mana) than just casting a Ring out of the wishboard (4 mana). Mana is often the bottleneck when you're not in a win-more state, so the 6 mana for Obelisk or 5 mana for Coffin could be tougher than just digging into another Ring.

Hope of Ghirapur looks good though. Edit: Although it lines up badly against a Bowmasters meta.

Thank you for responding FTW, it is always good to read your feedback.

Despite the research Thraben U did, initial results (however small or short) of the style of deck in question taking 3rd and 5th place in a Legacy Challenge and KILLAH_SUV placing 7-2 in a Legacy Showcase Challenge in the past two weeks does prove that having The One Ring in a colorless shell does hold water and deserves further consideration.

The intention of making small alterations of one Obelisk of Undoing in the main deck and a The Stasis Coffin in the side board is to suggest that this style of deck and variations of can prolong the use of the player having, "Protection from Everything" with minimal changes.

[Vacrix]

How about a build w a green stax package for Root Maze and Amulet of Vigor? The Mycosynth Gardens can produce extra untap triggers when you drop The One Ring, ie. draw 1 + 2, and The One Ring can feed Life from the Loam. I feel like it could conserve space much better than by maxing out on Voltaic Keys. Amulet + Root Maze + TMG is close enough to what you're doing already except this way the opponent is also developing at a crawl.

I'm thinking of something closer to a homogenization of Turbo Eldrazi and Loam pieces.

Minamo, School at the Water's Edge can untap Ring in a different shell, iirc turbo Eldrazi had a UG build at some point, tho I think a purely green manabase would be more stable.

EDIT:
w out splashing green.. Orb of Dreams + Amulet of Vigor + The Mycosynth Gardens in the current lists, w 12post lands

[thefreakaccident]

I'm thinking of something closer to a homogenization of Turbo Eldrazi and Loam pieces.

Honestly, I was thinking the same. The ring lends towards this and Legacy's pre-existing stompy manabases, but any big mana deck can go this route really.

I wonder what "The Best" One ring deck will turn out to be. Going green also grants you a solid green sun's package and the initiative. Getting the initiative and then gaining protection is nutter butters.

Lol, you could run Esperzoa in Sea Stompy with the one ring.

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/C...verseid=489722

[Vacrix]

Worth noting, The Peregrine Dynamo can produce another activation, and or a Minamo activation w out another U input.

Construct is a great tribe. You can pivot to TPD post combat to produce an additional Ring activation. Not sure what else to copy w it tho except Karakas, which can conveinently target TPD which has haste. But that seems pretty good.

I could see this list being more like Forge Bots + DNT w a splash of parts for The One Ring synergies, as opposed to a more dedicated Ring engine build.

Minamo, School at the Water's Edge
Karakas
The Peregrine Dynamo
The One Ring


Pyre of Heroes

Construct tribe
----

0mv
--
Hangarback Walker
Walking Ballista
Memnite
Phyrexian Walker

1mv
--
Bomat Courier
Haywire Mite


2mv
--
Patchwork Automaton
Lupine Prototype

Tiller Engine
Containment Construct

Walking Atlas
Corridor Monitor
Voltaic Servant


3mv
--
Metalworker
Rug of Smothering

[FTW]

If you go blue instead, what about a copy effect like Copy Artifact or Mechanized Production or Saheeli Rai to make more One Ring ETB triggers? Emry can also cast The Ring from graveyard if countered or discarded.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Did you cast it when you copy it?

[FTW]

Did you cast it when you copy it?

Oh right, I missed the cast clause. But it would work with Emry and a sacrifice outlet (or 2nd copy to Legend rule). Or a bounce effect like Esperzoa.

[Zoid]

Oh right, I missed the cast clause. But it would work with Emry and a sacrifice outlet (or 2nd copy to Legend rule). Or a bounce effect like Esperzoa.

Krark-Clan Ironworks?
Also helps you accelerate in into the ring in the first place.

[Daniel Worobec]

Worth noting, The Peregrine Dynamo can produce another activation, and or a Minamo activation w out another U input.

Construct is a great tribe. You can pivot to TPD post combat to produce an additional Ring activation. Not sure what else to copy w it tho except Karakas, which can conveinently target TPD which has haste. But that seems pretty good.

I could see this list being more like Forge Bots + DNT w a splash of parts for The One Ring synergies, as opposed to a more dedicated Ring engine build.

Minamo, School at the Water's Edge
Karakas
The Peregrine Dynamo
The One Ring


Pyre of Heroes

Construct tribe
----

0mv
--
Hangarback Walker
Walking Ballista
Memnite
Phyrexian Walker

1mv
--
Bomat Courier
Haywire Mite


2mv
--
Patchwork Automaton
Lupine Prototype

Tiller Engine
Containment Construct

Walking Atlas
Corridor Monitor
Voltaic Servant


3mv
--
Metalworker
Rug of Smothering

Vacrix I appreciate you and anyone taking an interest in Forge Bots. I have looked over your recommendations and I am having trouble interpreting the data you provided.

Would you like to clarify?

[FTW]

Stasis Coffin seems really useful for being able to interact at instant speed. You can literally wait until opponent is about to kill you, then activate to avoid death, then keep spamming multiple turns of protection from everything until you can assemble either a win condition or a loop.

Opponent playing instants in between is the one thing that would ruin your fun, so maybe you need to pillowfort up to prevent that.

PillowFort version

//Lands: 16
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Inventors' Fair

//Other Mana: 22
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Manifold Key
4 Grim Monolith
3 Basalt Monolith

//Pillowfort: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Defense Grid
3 The Stasis Coffin

//Card Engines: 11
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 The One Ring
3 Mystic Forge

//Sideboard: 15
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Walking Ballista
1 The Peregrine Dynamo
1 Mystic Forge
3 Dismember
4 Leyline of the Void


Between The One Ring, Coffin, Karn recurring Coffin, and Peregrine Dynamo copying abilities, you should be able to spam many turns of protection until you can assemble enough resources to win (Lattice, Flagship, Ballista).

Grid and Chalice should stop things like counters and Bolts from interrupting your fun.

You could squeeze in room for 1 Obelisk of Undoing. It seems mana-intensive though compared to the other lines.

[Daniel Worobec]

Stasis Coffin seems really useful for being able to interact at instant speed. You can literally wait until opponent is about to kill you, then activate to avoid death, then keep spamming multiple turns of protection from everything until you can assemble either a win condition or a loop.

Opponent playing instants in between is the one thing that would ruin your fun, so maybe you need to pillowfort up to prevent that.

PillowFort version

//Lands: 16
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Crystal Vein
1 Inventors' Fair

//Other Mana: 22
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Manifold Key
4 Grim Monolith
3 Basalt Monolith

//Pillowfort: 11
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Defense Grid
3 The Stasis Coffin

//Card Engines: 11
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 The One Ring
3 Mystic Forge

//Sideboard: 15
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
1 Walking Ballista
1 The Peregrine Dynamo
1 Mystic Forge
3 Dismember
4 Leyline of the Void


Between The One Ring, Coffin, Karn recurring Coffin, and Peregrine Dynamo copying abilities, you should be able to spam many turns of protection until you can assemble enough resources to win (Lattice, Flagship, Ballista).

Grid and Chalice should stop things like counters and Bolts from interrupting your fun.

You could squeeze in room for 1 Obelisk of Undoing. It seems mana-intensive though compared to the other lines.

FTW this is looks interesting. How do you think about adding Paradox Engine to the main and/or sideboard?

With The Peregrine Dynamo, it can copy the protection effect however it has the same duration as the original copy. Am I missing something?

[FTW]

FTW this is looks interesting. How do you think about adding Paradox Engine to the main and/or sideboard?

With The Peregrine Dynamo, it can copy the protection effect however it has the same duration as the original copy. Am I missing something?

Good point. Copying the protection effect is not useful.

It can still copy:
-The One Ring's card draw
-Inventors' Fair's tutor or life gain
-Karn's -2 (get 2 cards) or +1 (animate 2 things)

Maybe that's not good enough without also being able to add more protection turns. That slot could be Obelisk then.

Paradox Engine combos with Mystic Forge and The One Ring to draw a lot, but it doesn't help the protection lines either. It might be win-more. You'd only get it when you don't need a defensive card to stay alive and can afford an expensive artifact. How many of those times would you just get Lattice instead?

[Daniel Worobec]

Good point. Copying the protection effect is not useful.

It can still copy:
-The One Ring's card draw
-Inventors' Fair's tutor or life gain
-Karn's -2 (get 2 cards) or +1 (animate 2 things)

Maybe that's not good enough without also being able to add more protection turns. That slot could be Obelisk then.

Paradox Engine combos with Mystic Forge and The One Ring to draw a lot, but it doesn't help the protection lines either. It might be win-more. You'd only get it when you don't need a defensive card to stay alive and can afford an expensive artifact. How many of those times would you just get Lattice instead?

Your Pillowfort deck reminds me of the fortified structures built centuries ago. The can take a beating but without having a strong way to defeat the opponent, eventually your fort will fall. Paradox Engine lets you create lots of mana with other artifacts and enables massive card advantage combinations. Construct tokens and Karn, the Great Creator animations may not be enough to win the game with. Having a Paradox Engine in your sideboard can enable a game winning combo engine with a win such as the Walking Ballista in the sideboard.

Adding The Stasis Coffin to the sideboard can allow Karn to get and reoccur it.

Obelisk of Undoing can be added to the main by taking out a Mystic Forge. You only need one Forge and the deck stalls enough to allow you time to get one. Obelisk is also defensive and can both protect Karn and reset the counters on them.

[FTW]

If you have a Karn -2 activation and a lot of mana (to get & cast Paradox Engine), doesn't Mycosynth Lattice already win the game? Just get Lattice instead of Paradox?

Even when you can't risk attacking with the 6/6, Lattice locks the opponent out, then you get Skysovereign and win in the air. You could try to "combo off" with Paradox Engine into large Ballista, but most Karn decks already win after resolving Lattice.

Lattice does fail when Karn/you loses to opponent's board state. But in those cases you're getting Bridge or Protection from Everything, not Paradox Engine. You'd only consider Engine when you have big mana and don't need help staying alive, and that's where Lattice already shines.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

If you have a Karn -2 activation and a lot of mana (to get & cast Paradox Engine), doesn't Mycosynth Lattice already win the game? Just get Lattice instead of Paradox?

Even when you can't risk attacking with the 6/6, Lattice locks the opponent out, then you get Skysovereign and win in the air. You could try to "combo off" with Paradox Engine into large Ballista, but most Karn decks already win after resolving Lattice.

Lattice does fail when Karn/you loses to opponent's board state. But in those cases you're getting Bridge or Protection from Everything, not Paradox Engine. You'd only consider Engine when you have big mana and don't need help staying alive, and that's where Lattice already shines.

Lattice wins when your ahead, Engine wins when you're behind. The math is basically "Will my Op get a chance to attack karn?"

Also Engine is the "have a lot of mana" part of the equation.

[FTW]

Engine costs 5, only 1 less than Lattice. Engine + another spell to untap is 6. Both need a lot of mana.

If you're behind, don't you need Bridge or The One Ring/Stasis Coffin? If Engine doesn't get you to 40+ mana that turn you just lose.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Your deck is constructed in such a way that it will get you the 30 mana. That's the point

[FTW]

Your deck is constructed in such a way that it will get you the 30 mana. That's the point

A lot of the winning Karn Forge decks don't run Paradox Engine in the board.

The only ones that do are on the 8Key plan (which mine & 2/3 OP lists are not). The 8key lists are laser-focused on big mana and the Paradox Engine combo to combo finish.

Other lists with fewer Keys and more interaction won't combo out as much mana, and don't need it to secure a winning position. Many Karn decks run 0 Engines and still win with Lattice + artifact threat instead of a combo finish.

Skysovereign, Argentum Masticore, and Cityscape Leveler are common finishers. Maybe Skysovereign is suboptimal.