[LCI] Pirates, Vampires and Dinos, oh my! The Lost Caverns of Ixalan spoliers

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Does a Shark Typhoon in the graveyard count as a permanent with an activated ability as a condition to transform the Enigma Jewel? Cycling can only be activated by a card in hand, but does it still have an activated ability in other zones?

Yes
Think Zirda. But also, it doesn't say permanents. It just says "non lands". You could use Lightning Storm

[PirateKing]

Yes
Think Zirda. But also, it doesn't say permanents. It just says "non lands". You could use Lightning Storm

Okay I'm getting on board with this idea. To be clear though, you wouldn't be able to just 1UX and make an X\X every turn, the cost on cycle is still "discard this card" which couldn't be paid by Locus of Enlightenment, right?

[FTW]

Okay I'm getting on board with this idea. To be clear though, you wouldn't be able to just 1UX and make an X\X every turn, the cost on cycle is still "discard this card" which couldn't be paid by Locus of Enlightenment, right?

Cycling can only be activated from the hand, not the battlefield or other zones. Just as if you cast Shark Typhoon you wouldn't be able to activate the ability to make X/X sharks.

But Shark Typhoon in graveyard does count towards the 4 cards you need, which helps pay the cost even if the ability isn't useful to take. Nonpermanents like Lorien Revealed would also count.

What I don't know is how stealing planeswalker abilities work. Can you activate a + ability to give it counters, then also activate the - ability once it has counters? Could you activate each PW ability once per turn, in other words using both the + and - ability (both copied)? Could you take 2 copies of the same legendary planeswalker and then activate each + and - ability twice?

I've never actually flipped Jewel in Standstill yet. I just use it for the mana boost so far. There were a few game states though where I was curious what would happen if I took 2 planeswalkers with it (eg Comet + Teferi), especially if you roll 6 with Comet's ability.

[Zoid]

No hue-man but still decent.
Not sure if he's better than just running hate though.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Okay I'm getting on board with this idea. To be clear though, you wouldn't be able to just 1UX and make an X\X every turn, the cost on cycle is still "discard this card" which couldn't be paid by Locus of Enlightenment, right?

Right, you still have to pay the costs and the abilities still need to be in the correct zone: you can't discard it to cycle. You can't do lightning storm counters because it's not on the stack.
You can do loyalty abilities but you have to pay their costs. Just like Grist under cauldron.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Cycling can only be activated from the hand, not the battlefield or other zones. Just as if you cast Shark Typhoon you wouldn't be able to activate the ability to make X/X sharks.

But Shark Typhoon in graveyard does count towards the 4 cards you need, which helps pay the cost even if the ability isn't useful to take. Nonpermanents like Lorien Revealed would also count.

What I don't know is how stealing planeswalker abilities work. Can you activate a + ability to give it counters, then also activate the - ability once it has counters? Could you activate each PW ability once per turn, in other words using both the + and - ability (both copied)? Could you take 2 copies of the same legendary planeswalker and then activate each + and - ability twice?

I've never actually flipped Jewel in Standstill yet. I just use it for the mana boost so far. There were a few game states though where I was curious what would happen if I took 2 planeswalkers with it (eg Comet + Teferi), especially if you roll 6 with Comet's ability.

The adding or removing counters is a cost so it won't be doubled even if the ability is
So: you craft into a jace.
You can add two counters to fatesteal. Then you'll fatesteal again. The artifact stays at 2 counters.
You brainstorm, and then get a chance to crack fetch and brainstorm again.
You can't bounce because it didn't enter with any loyalty
Can can't activate a hundred times because loyalty abilities can only be activated once per object per turn

[FTW]

Interesting. I was wondering if the "once per turn" restriction for Planeswalker Loyalty activations was tied to Planeswalker cards or Loyalty Abilities. It appears to be tied to Loyalty Abilities, even on non-Planeswalker cards (rule 606.3).

So if you Craft a Planeswalker, you can only choose one of its abilities to use that turn (copied). You can't +2 Fateseal copied then -1 bounce (copied) in the same turn. Though you could -1 next turn.

That also means there is no advantage to Crafting 2x Jace (can still only use one loyalty ability). If you Craft 2 different walkers (Jace + Teferi), you only get one loyalty ability from the two (still marginally better than just crafting one).

What gets interesting is if you Craft Jace & Comet, you can activate Comet's 0: roll 2 6 sided dice. If either roll is a 6, you get to activate 2 Jace abilities (both copied). Or you can roll 4 more dice and try to get another 6!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Interesting. I was wondering if the "once per turn" restriction for Planeswalker Loyalty activations was tied to Planeswalker cards or Loyalty Abilities. It appears to be tied to Loyalty Abilities, even on non-Planeswalker cards (rule 606.3).

Expirment Kraj changed it. I know it's different now (I think you had to be a 'walker before)

So if you Craft a Planeswalker, you can only choose one of its abilities to use that turn (copied). You can't +2 Fateseal copied then -1 bounce (copied) in the same turn. Though you could -1 next turn.

Exactly

That also means there is no advantage to Crafting 2x Jace (can still only use one loyalty ability). If you Craft 2 different walkers (Jace + Teferi), you only get one loyalty ability from the two (still marginally better than just crafting one).

I wouldn't say no advantage, you might only have a gy full of jace, but yes.

[PirateKing]

So followup question on Comet, Stellar Pup then: When crafted into Locus of Enlightenment, what abilities does it see? If it's the whole text of Comet then activating once, getting two rolls and spiking 6's gets wild combined with other crafted Planeswalkers. But looking at the card, you could argue that the activated ability of Comet is just "0: Roll a six-sided die." Like if you craft with Tavern Scoundrel you can flip a coin, but nothing on the Locus of Enlightenment itself would care about the result of that flip.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

From gatherer:
In some unusual cases, Comet may gain loyalty abilities other than the one he normally has. In those cases, the effect of rolling a 6 applies only to his normal ability.

[rufus]

Tarrian's Soulcleaver

Legendary Artifact — Equipment

Equipped creature has vigilance.

Whenever another artifact or creature is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on equipped creature.

Equip

Seems like it might find some niche play as a 1-of in decks with Urza's Saga and Walking Ballista.

[FTW]

From gatherer:
In some unusual cases, Comet may gain loyalty abilities other than the one he normally has. In those cases, the effect of rolling a 6 applies only to his normal ability.

If Comet is Crafted with Locus and you roll a 6, then can you still activate the same ability 2 more times (copied)? Or does Locus stop you, since Locus says you can only use each ability once? Which rule takes priority?

I'm just a Legacy player trying to break new cards, and here comes WOTC being careful with rules to avoid breaking cards.

Edit: Comet's ability is a 0, so you don't need loyalty counters to use it. Even if you roll a - and remove all counters, Locus won't die and you don't need counters to keep activating.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'm going to say you can. Just like how normally you can only activate a loyalty ability once the restriction on the Jewel isn't a "can't"
So if you hit a six, you can activate the ability twice more, and get two triggers for a total of 4 more resolutions

[FTW]

If so, seems good.

The best use case might be in Karn Forge: Craft The One Ring with an untap effect (Basalt Monolith).

You exile the previous Ring with burden counters, and Locus doesn't have the life loss ability, so now you lose 0 life per turn.
Tap: Add 3
3: 2 Untaps
Between untaps, tap: +1 counter, draw 1 / +1 counter, draw 2
Locus untaps again

Then on opponent's turn..
Tap: Add 3
3: 2 untaps
Between untaps, tap: +1 counter, draw 3 / +1 counter, draw 4
Locus untaps again
Lose 0 life

With Voltaic Keys or Paradox Engine this gets even more insane. The bottleneck is what to do with extra activations and cards. Karn -> Aetherflux Reservoir storm kill? Phyrexian Processor making a whole lot of X/Xs?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Are there any abilities that make mana that aren't mana abilties? Like DRS's?
I don't want to look it up, where is doubling cube in this?

[FTW]

I think almost all are mana abilties by definition. Doubling Cube might not be, but you still need another mana source and only get to use it once. Is that worth the variance of playing Doubling Cube in your Forge deck?

Seems like it might find some niche play as a 1-of in decks with Urza's Saga and Walking Ballista.

Seems funny with Arcbound Ravager.

Isn't there some version of Affinity with 4 Ravager 4 Steel Overseer 4 Saga? This might be a nice 1-of, especially with Ballistas in the deck. Ballista seems maindeckable because it picks off Bowmasters.

[Reeplcheep]

The exceptions are abilities with targets (DRS), loyalty abilities (Chandra, torch of defiance) and trigger abilities not triggered by adding mana (burning rite shaman).

Doubling cube and utopia sprawl are mana abilities.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

The dinosaurs sure look like shit. It would have been nice if they'd gotten some actual palaeoartists to design them. Instead, we're stuck with this crap that's all vibes and no actual dinosaur.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

They threw the paleontologists a bone by adding some feathers

[Zoid]

The paleontologists are in the Jurassic World cards :)

The best cards is objectively this happy Pepe: