What about the ethereal forager? seems good in this deck as well, instead of murktide.Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
Unfortunately i dont have murks (but got katherines and whales) :) those will have to do for now!
I really like it, I think it deserves a test
Sailors Bane over forger imo. I counted 26 support cards.
Or the new whale. What's a 4/4 to a 7/5
if we stay uw the first choice is the regent (it is the easiest to play) the second is St. Catherine because she can easily play in turn 3 the third possibility is to also play green and play uro. all the others can be tested but in general they are worse (because they put little pressure/because they don't gain an advantage/because they go down a round later etc..etc..)
The problem is not if it gets answered, but paying the mana.
Stifle + Nulldrifter = 4 lands
Dress Down + Nulldrfiter = 3 lands
Thrull + Nulldrifter = 3 lands
4 lands is not easy with 18 lands, Wasteland, Daze, etc.
Stifle is also the worst one with Dreadnought. Maybe Stifle should be 3 copies. See this Ark4n Challenge Top 8 list with 3 Stifle: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=55839&d=615613&f=LE
This seems like a good starting point for UW
//Lands: 18
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
3 Island
1 Plains
//Threats: 10
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
2 Murktide Regent
//Enablers: 10
3 Stifle
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Dress Down
//Core UW Spells: 16
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
Total = 54 cards main
Those are the best threats and spells. Can't go lower than 18 lands or 10 enablers. Leaves room for 6 more.
Competing for those last 6 slots:
4 Daze
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Lorien Revealed
1 Stifle
1 Doorkeeper Thrull
1 Murktide Regent
1 Otawara, Soaring City
1 blue fetch/dual
4 Daze + 2 Borrower matches past discussion.
Maybe 3 Daze + 1 Borrower + 1 Otawara + 1 Thrull
For the sideboard this looks good
//Side: 15
2 Force of Negation
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unlicensed Hearse
2 Null Rod
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Ugin's Binding
Unlicensed Hearse is proven strong in Dreadnought. You can Crew with evoke Nulldrifter, even if you don't keep the creature.
Ugin's Binding has potential with Nulldrifter in slower grindy matches.
Dress+ nulldrifther 3 Land?
Why not +1 dress and +1 stifle
Turn 2 Dress Down/Thrull end of turn
Turn 3 Nulldrifter
3 lands needed.
Stifle+Nulldrifter needs 4 lands & Turn 4 or later.
in some matchups you want both null rod and grave hate, doesnt unlicensed hearse make a bad gravehate choice because of that?
Dress down Need sacrifie It at the end of turn;-)
If you play regent and nulldrifther
slip out the back Is possibile Better that
Dress down.
If you cast it on your op's end step it won't sacrifice until the next endstep at the end of your turn
In what matches? If it's a common problem, Containment Priest should work over Hearse. It also answers any cheatyface Eldrazi stuff.
These recent lists all ran Null Rod with Hearse:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=56016&d=617310&f=LE
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=55839&d=615613&f=LE
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=55657&d=614220&f=LE
Slip Out the Back+Nulldrifter is also 4 lands & turn 4.
If you don't know how to do Turn 2 Dress Down Turn 3 Nulldrifter, you're missing good lines to the deck!
Truly? this is new to me I thought it couldn't be done....but thinking about it for a moment (I'm a noob ;-)) then it's a really strong play.
4 dress;-) stable
stuff like painter or storm to name a couple
Hmm for both those matches there are enough tools already: 2 Surgical, 2 Force of Negation, 2 Null Rod, Flusterstorm. Also blue blasts & Prismatic Ending vs Painter. Plus maindeck Force, Daze, Stifle. Don't need to bring in 15 cards. We can attack such combo decks on enough angles without needing 4x grave hate.
Same with Cephalid Breakfast. We don't need Hearse. 2 Surgical, 2 Force of Negation, Null Rod, Flusterstorm, 4 Force of Will, 3 Stifle, 4 Dress Down, 3-4 Thrull... They are not getting anywhere with Thassa's Oracle or Stoneforge.
These matchups are easy wins. Don't need overkill hate.
Fair midrange matchups are harder. That's also where Hearse shines, slowly eating away at graveyard resources and threatening to 1-shot them.
great explanation, thank you for that :))
Top 4 Legacy Challenge June 1st 2024: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=56138&d=618212&f=LE
Bant Pre-MH3 Nought
//Lands: 19
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Meticulous Archive
1 Island
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Murktide Regent
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stifle
4 Daze
1 Life from the Loam
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Sideboard: 15
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Force of Negation
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Null Rod
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unlicensed Hearse
2 Veil of Summer
For UW with Nulldrifter, we get about the same shell but cleaner mana.
//Lands: 19
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Otawara, Soaring City
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Nulldrifter
2 Murktide Regent
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stifle
4 Daze
1 Ugin's Binding
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Sideboard: 15
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
2 Force of Negation
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unlicensed Hearse
1 Null Rod
1 Wrath of the Skies
1 Flusterstorm
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Back to Basics
Exact numbers on Narset, Null Rod & B2B will depend on the meta. Starting as 1-ofs for now.
Teferi, Time Raveler might be better for removing noncreatures than bounce like Brazen Borrower.
Wrath of the Skies looks worth testing.
For WW it kills: Artifact lands, Urza's Saga, Constructs, Chalice of the Void, Moxes, Petals, Baubles, Orc armies, Rhinos, random tokens
For 1WW it kills all those plus: Delver, DRC, Vexing Bauble, Vial, Mother of Runes, Elvish Reclaimer, Elves, Stalactite Stalker, Exploration, Needle, random artifact trinkets, 1-mana flip walkers
For 2WW it kills those plus: Beanstalk, Bowmaster, Questing Druid, Thalia, Animate Dead, Stoneforge, Patchwork Automaton, Painter's Servant, Goblin Engineer, many Goblins, many things
Nulldrifter & Murktide are both safe from it!
Last edited by FTW; 06-03-2024 at 04:35 AM.
as we are playing like a tempo deck, ist hullbreacher better then narset?
atm im thinking about ratchet bomb/powder keg, instead of wrath.
is prismatic ending worth in the uw shell even with access to only 2 colors?
Good questions.
Narset is for midrange/control matchups like Beans. Narset shuts off their draw engine and is harder to answer, while they have a ton of answers for Hullbreacher. We are not really speed-running those matches, just trying to not get blown out by all their removal. Narset replaces itself so you always trade positively, which helps in that fight. Hullbreacher often just trades 1-for-1 with a 1-mana removal.
Powder Keg was great pre-MH3. Tough to evaluate it vs Wrath post-MH3. Powder Keg does the job well but misses enchantments. I like that Wrath is "X or less" instead of "equal to X". Wrath answers artifact lands, Urza's Saga, constructs, and cheap artifacts all at once. Deserves testing.
Ratchet Bomb hits more permanents but misses Artifact lands and Urza's Saga. Blue artifacts look to be strong post-MH3. But it's hard to predict the new meta.
Prismatic Ending is worse with 2 colors. The deck needs noncreature removal though. March of Otherworldly Light is underwhelming too. Maybe the slot is better as another Wrath of the Skies, Ratchet Bomb, Powder Keg, or Serenity. Needs testing.
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