Black Aggro Belcher

[ntropy]

Hey, I've got sick of trying to deal with Discord and Facebook groups and I'm just coming back here, so this is what I've been working on lately. I've topped a few 1ks with it and I'm curious if anyone has any thoughts.

I've felt that the printing of the uncommon MDFC's was a mistake, and when Cecil was printed in FF I built this in an attempt to take advantage of them. Since then we've got Mai, Scornful Striker added to our toolbox as well.
None of these cards should be too surprising, it's sort of the standard collection of Legacy accelerants and Mono Black Hate-bears. Rather than center the deck around the Helm Combo though, I've tried to set it up with a Plan A of Dark Ritual/Thoughtseize/Threats and then a plan B (Charbelcher) that comes out of nowhere as your opponent starts to stabilize. Of course you can roll high and just combo them in an early turn if that's appropriate, but there are no tutors to reliably set up a Belcher line. The cost of including the Belcher plan is mostly lack of Wasteland, and to a lesser extent the damage your manabase does to you. The "package" is only 3 cards, so it takes up very little space in this list. The knobs I've been turning to tune have been number of ritual effects vs the number of removal spells vs the number of discard effects. I cut Cabal Rituals to add Mai, and after a 5th place finish I decided I could trim 1 Mai and 1 Hymn to Tourach to move the full set of Sheoldred's Edicts into the main. I've tried some Long Goodbyes instead of Edicts, and while it's nice to blast Tamiyo with no fear of Daze, Murktide Regent remains a problem. I'm currently working without Nethergoyfs or Stalactite Stalkers, mine are out being signed by the artists, but they are both on my radar, and my first good finish with this deck had 4x Nethergoyf (in the Mai spot.)

4 Agadeem's Awakening
4 Barrowgoyf
4 Boggart Trawler
3 Cecil, Dark Knight
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Dauthi Voidwalker
4 Fatal Push
4 Fell the Profane
3 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mai, Scornful Striker
4 Orcish Bowmasters
4 Sheoldred's Edict
4 Thoughtseize

SIDEBOARD:
3 Duress
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Opposition Agent
3 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
3 Tourach, Dread Cantor

I like this sideboard set-up, I was on 2x Soul-Guide Lantern, 3x Grafdigger's Cage pre-Entomb ban, but those decks are back to being turn 1 decks, so I'm back on Faeries. There's a lot of Phelia/Breakfast/UW control/D+T in my meta, so Tourach is a good trump for those decks. Duress helps vs the combo decks and ramp decks, same with Agent, and Sheoldred comes in when their removal won't answer her. I almost always leave 2 Charbelchers in, I most often trim discard or removal to bring in my sideboard stuff.

Try it out, terrorize your friends, tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm awesome, whatever.

[mistercakes]

there's no img tags on the cards, could you maybe put a link to a moxfield decklist so i cover do some quick looks over? i haven't touched legacy for a while now but would still love to give some feedback :)

[ntropy]

dang, I forgot about putting the tags in. here: https://moxfield.com/decks/kLQvDcYCLk6wqF_ms5Ed6w

[PirateKing]

fyi it's the CARDS tag that makes them link

your list above:
4 Agadeem's Awakening
4 Barrowgoyf
4 Boggart Trawler
3 Cecil, Dark Knight
4 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Dauthi Voidwalker
4 Fatal Push
4 Fell the Profane
3 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lotus Petal
3 Mai, Scornful Striker
4 Orcish Bowmasters
4 Sheoldred's Edict
4 Thoughtseize

SIDEBOARD:
3 Duress
2 Faerie Macabre
4 Opposition Agent
3 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
3 Tourach, Dread Cantor

[ntropy]

Thanks PirateKing, It's been awhile.

[mistercakes]

deck looks good. i'm no expert in the format these days. few things that could be interesting here, especially with the high black card count. i also like 1 inquisition over 1 hymn. i'll have to dig through cards that have been released in the last few years to see if there's anything niche that i'm overlooking.


Contagion
Unmask
Inquisition of Kozilek

[Lexi]

I think dismember might be worth considering in the 75 as a response to a turn 1 magus of the moon when going second. Maybe replacing some of the pushes or edicts in the main?

[mistercakes]

I think dismember might be worth considering in the 75 as a response to a turn 1 magus of the moon when going second. Maybe replacing some of the pushes or edicts in the main?

i'm out of the loop with legacy, but what are your pain points right now?

[ntropy]

-on Dismember I try to rely on Chrome Mox and Lotus Petal doing enough vs Magus of the Moon, but if I start to see more red decks, that is a good call.

-I agree that Hymn to Tourach is one of the weaker cards in the deck, maybe I'll try an Inquisition of Kozilek or Duress in that spot. Unmask seems like too much card disadvantage, I don't really have a catch-up mechanism, and often what I'm clearing the way for is not a game ending combo, but a lock piece that will take a few turns to close the game, so I can't just dump everything into one sequence of spells.

-I called out no Wasteland as a cost of running this version of the deck, the other cost is no Snuff Out. Murktide Regent can be a problem if you can't leverage a Sheoldred's Edict or get to 4 mana for a Fell the Profane.

-the most recent time I played it I wished I had Nethergoyfs, I've been playing them in a black/red burn list and I've really got to like their recursive nature. Getting card types in the yard is a little awkward, since I don't have any lands, but a few extra 1-drops might be nice.

-I'm unimpressed by Sheoldred, the Apocalypse in the board, but not sure what else to put there. Maybe Plague Engineer to help vs the Ocelot Prides and opposing Orcish Bowmasters of the world.

-I'm also a little lower on Mai, Scornful Striker than I was at first. She may belong in the sideboard to make room for more 1-drops.

Thanks for your replies!

[FTW]

I like the overall strategy.

Since you have only 16 permanent mana sources though, and 0 basics, I think the curve should be lower than typical monoblack aggro. Mana is a precious resource. More at 1cmc? Then you can save Lotus Petal and Dark Ritual for big hitters like Barrowgoyf and Belcher, instead of using them to cast fair 2cmc things.

4x Nethergoyf, best black 1-mana creature.

With 4 Nethergoyf 4 Barrowgoyf 0 fetchlands, is maindeck Dauthi Voidwalker still wise? You want opponent to have many card types in graveyard. Targeted grave hate may be better.

Have you considered some copies of Death's Shadow? There's already so much life loss between Cecil, MDFC lands, and Mai.

Have you considered Beseech the Mirror as a way to tutor & cast Belcher when you're ready for it? When you don't want Belcher then Beseech can get Barrowgoyf or pitch to Chrome Mox, 2 modes Belcher doesn't have. Beseech can also get SB Sheoldred, so you only need 1 copy instead of 3. (boarding in multiple Sheoldred seems bad if you draw them too early)
You could go down to a split like
2-3 Beseech the Mirror
2 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Sheoldred (SB)


Possible deck list

//Mana: 24
4 Agadeem's Awakening
4 Boggart Trawler
4 Fell the Profane
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

//Creatures: 20
4 Nethergoyf
3 Cecil, Dark Knight
3 Death's Shadow
4 Orcish Bowmasters
2 Mai, Scornful Striker
4 Barrowgoyf

//Spells: 12
4 Thoughtseize
4 Fatal Push
2 Sheoldred's Edict
2 Mishra's Bauble

//Combo: 4
2 Beseech the Mirror
2 Goblin Charbelcher

//SB: 15
1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
1 Mai, Scornful Striker
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Sheoldred's Edict
3 Duress
4 Opposition Agent

[FTW]

Are you still trying this strategy?

Black Belcher looks more appealing post-ban. You could even go harder on the combo plan in game 1, then board into beatdown.

I've been testing out a few versions. I started with different configurations. This one has been running the best for game 1s.

Mono B Belcher - Explosive Combo version

//Mana Sources: 34
4 Agadeem's Awakening
4 Boggart Trawler
4 Fell the Profane
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

//Protection: 8
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy

//Belcher: 7
4 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Beseech the Mirror

//OOPS, its Oops after all: 11
4 Balustrade Spy
3 Narcomoeba
2 Poxwalkers
1 Dread Return
1 Thassa's Oracle


It still gets a lot of turn 1s and protected turn 2s. Good mulligans with 11 business (4 Spy + 4 Belcher + 3 Beseech)! Beseech almost always gets Spy, with Belcher as a backup plan.

The Oops package is kept small and compact. Instead of trying to protect it (Memory's Journey, Jack-o-Lantern, Pacts), you can Belch around any MD hate and run a transformational SB, boarding into one of 2 plans.

Plan 1 - Storm
-11 Oops cards
+4 LED
+2 Opal
+2 Infernal Tutor
+ Beseech
+ Tendrils
+ Gaea's Will

Plan 2 - Beatdown
-11 Oops cards
-2 ESG
-1 Beseech
-1 Belcher
+15 creatures


Mono B Belcher - Storm version


//Mana Sources: 40
4 Agadeem's Awakening
4 Boggart Trawler
4 Fell the Profane
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Mox Opal
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

//Protection: 8
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy

//Combo: 12
4 Beseech the Mirror
4 Goblin Charbelcher
2 Infernal Tutor
1 Gaea's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony


This Belcher/storm version goes off consistently turns 1-3. With protection turn 2-3. Mulligan aggressively to get a hand with initial black mana (12 lands + 4 Mox = 16) + wincon/tutor (10). Being short 1-2 mana is fine, the deck is 2/3 mana. If you're not topdecking mana, you're drawing discard or redundant business to power through interaction.

With 2 rituals or LED there's usually enough gas to Beseech for Gaea's Will and get lethal Tendrils. Otherwise Beseech gets Belcher. With Infernal Tutor+LED hands I had a few Tendrilsx15. Infernal Tutor almost always gets Beseech, but can get Belcher or mana.

Compared to the other build, this one can more reliably turn 1 Belch (LED & Mox Opals). It can also more reliably pass with Belcher on 1-2 lands and count on topdecking mana. The deck is 2/3 mana, and there are fewer blanks like Narcomoeba. But I did have unlucky games where I just drew 3 discard spells in a row... It's a risk.

I started with Storm as the main plan and Oops as a SB juke. The idea was that they don't get to see your whole decklist after game 1, they expect the Belcher juke but not the Oops juke, and you might catch them game 2 without Leylines. But after a lot of testing the other version is faster and more explosive, just a better chance of winning game 1.

For game 2 there's a bigger risk Gaea's Will is dead. I tried adding Gaea's Will to the other build to have 3 plans game 1 (e.g. -2 Belcher, +Will +Tendrils), but it was worse. More cards that are bad topdecks and bad mulligans. Also the storm plan is just worse with the deck full of Oops creatures instead of LEDs, Opals, Infernal Tutor. I tested replacing Gaea's Will with Song of Creation or Necrodominance as another out. Necrodom was bad and got cut. Song works but doesn't win as fast as Gaea's Will does in the same scenarios, so you do feel the loss of Will in some games.

If opponent might bring in combo hate & grave hate, pivoting to beatdown may be safer than Storm. The SB storm plan is much worse if you can't count on Gaea's Will.

Mono B Belcher - Beatdown version

//Mana Sources: 32
4 Agadeem's Awakening
4 Boggart Trawler
4 Fell the Profane
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lotus Petal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual

//Protection: 8
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy

//Creatures: 15
4 Dauthi Voidwalker
3 Orcish Bowmasters
4 Rotting Regisaur
4 Barrowgoyf

//Belcher: 5
2 Beseech the Mirror
3 Goblin Charbelcher


There's still a Belcher package. You just can't activate as early, so you do need opponent to be distracted by the creatures. Voidwalker and Bowmasters provide some interaction.

I haven't yet decided which 2 of these 3 decks work best together. Still testing them all.

If SB space is needed for actual interaction against faster decks, then there is one more juke option making wincons out of hate pieces...


//SB: Stompy Juke
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
3 Opposition Agent


This last version lets you run Leyline as hate while also representing 2 different combo kills with 4-mana cards (each tutorable with Beseech & Karn).