One of the things I've learned about this deck is that it doesn't conform to conventions, it's one part prison, it's one part aggro, it's one part aggro-control, it's one part combo and each part takes precedence over the other in the given order.
This deck does board out Thoughtcast for its SB bombs, because its SB bombs must be cast on the first turn in order to be effective, Force of Will must be kept in the deck on the draw to prevent the opponent's threats, and with the exception of combo, where Miscalculation is better than Thoughtcast, the deck can't afford to reduce its threats. Other European AfFOWnity players have agreed with me on the subject, so I'm confidant I'm right.
Yes, I mulligan for Chalice of the Void, this is a deck that should be aggressive with its mulligans, and yes, I expect to be able to cast more than one Chalice of the Void in a game, there are 4 of them.
Chalice of the Void at 2 does not ruin this deck, it has 8 cards it counters, Cloud of Faeries Cycles, 8 of which will be cast before Chalice of the Void at 2 or the deck will just entrust that Chalice of the Void at 2 does more damage to them than it does to you.
It's not out of line to call this deck aggro-prison, because this deck is more or less a combination of Faerie Stompy and Affinity.
Who is SBing in bombs against decks with Force of Will and Duress? Who is SBing in artifacts for blue cards and blue cards for artifacts? Are you certain you know what you're doing with this deck? It just seems like you have a lot of preconceived notions for this deck that aren't applicable after thorough testing.
Thoughtcast is the definition of inconsistency in this deck, you have 8 blue sources, 4 of which require another blue card, to cast it, and it can't be cast until turn three plus, where as Brainstorm can be cast on turn one.
This Deck really is not a Prison deck. It also is not aggro-control or combo. It is aggro. It runs cheap and evasive or undercosted beaters, and disruption, Like Sui-black, and has an overall synergy in the deck like Goblins.
Somber Hoverguard and Thoughtcast are two of the top five strongest cards in this deck, despite their disadvantage of needing blue mana. Since you say Thoughtcast can only be cast on turn three+ because of it's mana cost, I assume you never get four artifacts into play on the first two turns, so you must be doing something wrong, obviously. When I play this deck, I normally play Thoughtcast on turn two if it's in my opening hand, unless I need the mana to play threats I already have in my hand, at which point I wouldn't want to hold back mana for miscalculation either. Thoughtcast also is a much better topdeck than Miscalculation, which btw. is not a hard counter. I'm, also a bit confused about you saying that Thoughtcast is bad because of it's casting cost, but on the other hand playing Keeneye Aven over Somber Hoverguard. It's a nice thing that Keeneye Aven cycles, but I would cycle it almost every time I saw it, hoping to draw a good card. Somber hoverguard is good, because you can play him in the first three turns, along with other threats. If this deck always had four mana free to play threats with, I'd rather play Juggernaut. But it doesn't. Somber Hoverguard is even better than the Aven if you only have two artifacts in play, because 3/2 is a much bigger threat than 2/3.
I can understand that you replaced Wastelands with Cities after you replaced cards with CMC 1 with cards that cost 2 or 4 mana, but since I think that was a wrong exchange, I think taking out the Wastelands is wrong too. Wastelands are really good in this deck, because this deck doesn't really care if mana has a color, and just like Goblins, this deck can bring its threats into play without needing a lot of lands. With this deck, it's not even a bad idea to use the wasteland on your first turn if your on the draw and your opponent starts with a dual. Wasteland sets the opponen back one turn without hurting you much, it's just amazing. Oh, and you can also waste black duals to prevent them from casting Deed. Also, while playing Chalice at 1 on your first turn is really good, losing your land on your second turn because you want to play another one is not. There is no reason to turn this deck into a more brown version of Fairy Stompy by making it die to its own manabase. Unlike Fairy Stompy, this deck can win without first turn Chalice one. Chalie for two is also possible without Cities, and against Stax or Fairy Stompy, even Chalice at three happens from time to time.
Also, I don't think this is a combination of Fairy Stompy and Affinity, or at least shouldn't be seen as such. This deck plays 16-20 cards also played by Fairy Stompy, 4-8 of which are mana sources and 4 of which are played by nearly every blue deck. Fairy Stompy is all about evasive beaters with equipment, this deck is more focused on undercosted beaters, with the evasion+equipment plan as a backup against other aggro decks. This deck wins about as much games with Myr Enforcer or Ravager as it does with Thopter+Plating.
Well I was gonna post the Primer and opening post for this deck but a terrible choppy version was done instead. From the Mana Drain...
Its proven itself to me in 4 out of 4 tournaments. Bringing me a 3rd place finish at my a large local tournament run by Dragon's Lair, then going 3-1, 3-1, 3-1. I've played many tournaments with affinity before, with many different builds in each format the evil machine arrived in. This is the perfect version imho.
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Seat of Synod
3 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Thoughtcast
4 Force of Will
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Somber Hovergaurd
SB
2 Powder Keg
3 Echoing Truth
3 Mana Leak
3 Pithing Needle
2 Umezawas Jitte
2 Tormods Crypt
Its one of the European creations played at Iserlohn. http://www.germagic.de/dc/event.php?...y+Februar+2007
Ive played against alot of decks and the aggro control match is definitly the best. Swords to Plowshares is a laugh. Modular and Plating make everything a lethal creature. Since you play Chalice maindeck you skip your one drops, a fine thing to do with the affininity mechanic. This is the first thing I underestimated when sleeving the deck. Dropping Chalice for 1 off Ancient Tomb or Chrome Mox is powerfull enough to straight up win games against thresh decks. It makes sure you dont see swords at all, and it gives you some fighting power against combo decks like Solidarity. They cant usually wish and bounce chalice before dying to the machines turn 3/4.
No Vial and no Disciple seem scary but the benefit of Chalice of the Void cannot be ignored. The decks only real bad matches were combo decks, which we just worked out. Speaking of combo, now featuring Force of Will has your opponent thinking twice whenever there are 2 cards in your hand. Force is additional combo hate and helps assure you a turn 3/4 kill much more reliably. Berserk and Fling are cool but they dont stop Wrath, Confinement, or TES from comboing. The blue card ratio is tight and very comparable to Faerie Stompy. 16 blue cards and only 8 blue mana sources. You just need to manage them wisely which is the hardest part of playing the deck. Knowing when to imprint Force instead of keeping it, knowing when to play Thoughtcast to draw into threats when Force is in your hand. Hell even when to cycle Cloud of Faeries is important to you.
The decks strengths are in its straight aggro plan with 8 great back up cards. (FoW/CotV) You rely on a decks inability to deal with quick clock + disruption. So far in my testing these were my matchup results..
Wombat (white control) +
Your really fast, WoG is really slow. It cant stop you just like in the days of standard. Swords is terrible against you and Force is the final nail in the coffin.
Madness +
They're counterspells are useless and your large count of flyers combined with plating win the game. The only card to be carefull of is Jitte which you can avoid by blocking and saccing to Rav or playing your own post board.
Survival +
Survival is slow as balls. You shut down Rootwalla and BoP with Chalice and Force the key card. Flying for the win.
This is where I mention only the early game matters in most matchups.
Affinity =
Theyre fast so they match your fat dudes early. It comes down to who has a flyer with plating which is usually you since you play more but they have Disciple who really decides who wins the affinity match. You can force him or Chalice for one. Vial can be detrimental to the match or not matter at all.
White Weenie +/=
Traditional White Weenie and Angel Stompy are easy matches since they follow the aggro/control role you tool. Swords sucks against you and Mother of Runes doesnt grant pro brown. If they're playing Death and Taxes that changes things since they have Mangara Lock and Aether Vial. Both great cards against you. Kataki is the only huge threat to worry about from a white deck.
TES +
This matchup really depends on who goes first but you have 12 awsome cards against them. You have Chalice, which is sometimes better to drop @ 0 as long as it wont effect you, and you have Wasteland which is awsome against them with clocks. Force is very key, especially when its a surprise factor. On that note, most people playing against you will never see the first Force coming. If TES goes first and pushes for a very early combo they can get the win, its difficult and playing Force kind of makes them play by opening with Xantid Swarm, giving you more time to play shit like Chalice.
Solidarity +
This is way better than the matchup with Vial Affinity which was good to begin with. The key to that matchup was finding 2 ways to win. Trying with combat then instant speed via Shrapnal Blast or Disciple. Now you have Force and Chalice to help instead. Force makes them always try to combo with they're own counter back up, playing slower and giving you more time to win via quick beaters. Chalice is almost always an auto win since your clock is so fast, they cant possibly bounce it and combo. The red versions just get better for you since they have Wasteland targets and Rack and Ruin instead of Rebuild.
Goblins -
This matchup is bad just like it was as Vial Affinity, only now you have Cloud of Faeries which are terrible against fanatics. The only games you can win are ones where you open with a quick CotV@1 to shut down vial. Luckly lackey isnt a problem since you have a million turn one answers, even thopter. The green splash is what really makes things bad because Tin Street Hooligan is Viridian Shaman on crack.
Deadguy/Red Death =
This seems like it would be easy but your mana base is very tight. Vindicate and Sinkhole can ruin you if you have no Darksteel Citadel. Remember its worth when trying to decide on keeping a hand. Chrome Mox is very important and should almost always imprint a card before it gets Duressed or Hymned. Chalice is important and also determines the outcome of the game altho not as much as goblins since theres no vial to stop, just shit like Lightning Bolt/StP and Duress. Watch your ife total when using Ancient Tomb mana, consider dropping Chalice for 2 as it hits most win conditions and nasty cards.
Thresh +
This matchup is easy as pie. Chalice is your best friend, resolve it and enter win phase. Swords is terrible against you even without the chalice thanks to Modular, your high creature count, and Plating. Next to chalice, plating is your best card. It makes everything to hard to handle and as big as their men. Try to save force for letting it resolve, nothing in their deck matters to you so always use to FoW to get through counterwalls. In the early game dont play around Daze unless trying to resolve plating or chalice. Setting thresh back a land drop is a game winner and they wont figure that out unless they remember me saying it here.. Daze combined with your Wastelands are the reason they have a bad matchup against goblins. Add affinity for artifacts and watch them burn.
My matchup analysis is based of my personal testing. Pick this deck up, its amazing. The only thing I changed from the original list was -1 Jitte +1 Wasteland. I wasnt comfortable with only 15 land and waste is always a great 4 of. I moved it to the sb.
So far the only other changes Id make are incorperating Ninja of the Deep Hours or Trinket Mage in the Cloud of Faeries slot. I like them alot since they play so many roles in the deck so im not sold on though. Go build the deck! Discuss!
Now playing real formats.
this looks pretty solid IMO... I would make some suggestions for some possible changes that the official build can undergo, and those are:
-4 Somber Hovergaurd
+4 serindib efreet
-4 cloud of faeries
+4 trinket mage ( he can fetch out lands, plating, challice, and thopter if needed)... I would also try and add some more blue mana pros, looks a little low for me..
just some ideas from team funk... good luck with the deck!
Paragraphs, man, paragraphs.Originally Posted by Locutus
The European build was ingenious, but it wasn't perfect, Wasteland makes the deck inconsistent and that is something it can't afford, and additional 2 mana lands were included in the deck because they're consistent and they resolves Chalice of the Void and the rest of its threats faster, as well as having additional synergy with Cloud of Faeries.
Edit: If I wanted to slow control down I would SB out Ornithopter and SB in Winter Orb, where those eight 2 mana lands give me an unfair advantage against them.
The clear illogical statement in the bounds of that that counter argument is that 2 mana lands are based on the cards I replaced Somber Hoverguard and Thoughtcast with, and that is not true, because even with Somber Hoverguard and Thoughtcast, I would still use 2 mana lands.
Having to sacrifice City of Traitors isn't a significant draw back, even when City of Traitors goes to the discard pile, it generated a total of two additional colorless mana before it did, which is a significant net gain.
This deck IS prison, this deck IS aggro, this deck IS control, this deck IS combo, this deck has all of the elements of those archetypes to some degree, from MD Chalice of the Void to SB Winter Orb, Myr Enforcer and Frogmite, Force of Will and either MD Miscalcuation or SB Mana Leak and Thoughtcast to Arcbound Ravager sacrificing the board and itself to an Ornithopter or an Ornithopter equipped with Cranial Plating. Calling AfFOWnity just aggro is horrid misuse of nomenclature.
Thoughtcast's casting cost has nothing to do with it, the deck has disruption and threats it needs to cast on the first two turns of the game, and after those first two turns Thoughtcast becomes an option, but the problem is that it either requires blue mana or that when the deck does cast it, it could just cast a Fact or Fiction etc.
Yes, I am aware Miscalculation is not a hard counter, neither is Mana Leak, and Miscalculation is just a better MD card in this deck than Mana Leak.
Keeneye Aven is a better creature than Somber Hoverguard, there, I said it, that 3 power isn't as significant as that 3 toughness that keeps Keeneye Aven out of the range of Fire/Ice, Magma Jet, Seal of Fire, Pyroclasm, Gempalm Incinerator and all of the other removal cards in the format. All that slot is, is a platform for Cranial Plating, and Cranial Plating is with out a doubt this deck's best game plan.
Regardless, I'm using Serendib Efreet in that slot, because turn one or turn two Serendib Efreet is too good to pass up, and I'd rather use a 3/4 instead of a 3/2 any day.
The deck is more or less a combination of Faerie Stompy and Affinity, the game plans are almost identical, except AfFOWnity gets undercosted beaters and Ravager to fuck around with.
Back to something relevant,
Have people considered cutting the Darksteel Citidal slots for a land with another effect? After moving to eight 2 mana lands and removing 8 of the Affinity cards, it isn't critical enough to remain immutable, and I was thinking about replacing them with Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Mishra's Factory, Blinkmoth Nexus etc.
Blinkmoth Nexus has the advantage of being another evasive threat for Ravager and Plating, while Mishra's Factory can block, kill and survive against Goblins. Manlands also encourage Standstill, and Mishra's Factory is a more respectable clock than Blinkmoth Nexus in this case.
This build could be interesting for testing purposes,
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Chrome Mox
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Ornithopter
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating.
Where the deck can just cast turn one Serendib or go, Factory, Chrome Mox, Standstill and be at 3 cards to slip in 4 to 8 damage against the opponent.
Go ahead, write an opening post an I will cut it into the opening post, i just did something quick to get the forum started.
A well time article on SCG,
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/14049.html
advocating the importance of 2 Mana Lands and Mana Leak (Miscalculation)
I've had a lot of success with just using Force of Will, Miscalculation, Serendib Efreet and Trinket Mage and replacing the Darksteel Citadels with Islands, Trinket Mage seems to be a combination of Thoughtcast and Cloud of Faeries, as the deck gets a 2/2 and a card of its choice, Ornithopter, Chalice of the Void, SB Pithing Needle and Engineered Explosives, Seat of the Synod and Chrome Mox so the card advantage is the same, the card selection is better, the tempo is better and it doubles the number of artifact based evasion creatures for Ravager.
Turn one Trinket Mage for Ornithopter or Tinket Mage for Chalice of the Void is just solid against Combo and Goblins, and I'm not even having close to the number of problems against Goblins I was having before.
If you look at it as Faerie Stompy incorporating Affinity instead of Affinity incorporating Faerie Stompy, you get a better deck (more SB options to, having 12 blue sources is awesome.
Your version of paragraphs is putting a line break between every single unwieldy comma-infested run-on sentence. You're not working from a very strong position when it comes to correcting other peoples' grammar. Leave the modding to the moderators.
I just did one for you. The link to Machinus' new article features some of the intricate little deck synergies and I gave some highlights on matchups.
What do people think of the matches I posted on. Games have gone great with this deck and Im seriously considering it as my deck of choice come the GP. The goblins matchups is the problem obviously. I hope to god this thread isnt spammed with this constantly because it doesnt make the deck unplayable and obviously doesnt knock it out of contention for a large event.
I strongly recommend keeping the wastelands throughout my testing due to their ability to keep the opponent at one mana with Chalice for one out. I've 'timewalked' a ton of opponents with waste while hitting them for 6-9 with Plating guy.
As for the goblin issue I want to add Fire//Ice for. Darksteel Citadels can be replaced for Furnace and Cloud of Faeries for Fire//Ice. They still count as blue for mox and fow. The ability to stop Lackey, kill Warchief, and 2 for 1 might help out. Then again, removing unblockable win conditions might be a problem. Ill let you guys know how this goes.
Now playing real formats.
There are a number of interesting options at this deck's disposal in order to improve the Goblins match up, and while I think that the full compliment of 2 mana lands, Serendib Efreet and Trinket Mage increase the deck's win percentage, it's possible to just drop the Darksteel Citadel for Mishra's Factory, or perhaps Desert, in order to strengthen the deck against Goblins' initial assault.
Regarding the SB, I've had a lot of success SBing in Chill and then using Trinket Mage to tutor for a Pithing Needle to eliminate their Aether Vial or Goblin Tinkerer.
Is Wasteland that good? I find SB Winter Orb tends to do more against the decks that Wasteland was included for than just exchanging lands, tho' I'd be inclined to see what both could do at the same time.
Don't you realize that one of the biggest weakness of this deck that goblins take advantage of is its weak mana base? Things like that would not help at all.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
If Goblins Wastelands a non-2 mana land or non-Seat of the Synod, I'll literally jump for joy. If your still playing that flimsy manabase with Wastelands, I'd agree tho'.
so what is the most recent list you are playing breathweapon?(incl sideboard plan)
I liked your ideas so far!
I'm using this,
MD
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtcast
4 Somber Hoverguard
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Cranial Plating
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Chrome Mox
SB
4 Misdirection
4 Miscalculation
4 Chill
? Winter Orb
Sphere of Resistance is the real reason to use Somber Hoverguard, Thoughtcast and Cloud of Faeries over Serendib Efreet, Trinket Mage and Miscalculation.
36 cards are unaffacted against Sphere of Resistance, 16 land cards, 16 Affinity cards, 4 Cloud of Faeries (cycling), and the cards that are affected, Chalice of the Void and Chrome Mox, Arcbound Ravager and Cranial Plating and Force of Will are either cast before Sphere of Resistance, still in the 3cc range and benefit from an additional artifact or just don't care about adding one mana to a free card.
Sphere of Resistance turn unfavorable match ups into favorable match ups, because instead of boarding in permission and removal, AfFOWnity can just use Sphere of Resistance to push the cc of the opponent's cards out of their curve.
Here's a hand against Goblins,
1 Seat of the Synod
1 City of Traitors
1 Chrome Mox
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Frogmite
1 Cloud of Faeries
Turn one: Seat of the Synod, Chrome Mox (Cloud of Faeries) Chalice of the Void at one and go.
Turn two: (Draw Cranial Plating) City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Frogmite and go
Turn three: (Draw Frogmite) cast Cranial Plating, equip Cranial Plating, cast Frogmite, attack with Frogmite (for 9) and go
Opponent's turn three: Goblin Tinkerer
Turn four: (Draw Somber Hoverguard), cast Somber Guard, attack using Frogmite and Frogmite (equipped), opponent blocks Frogmite (equipped) (for 2) and go.
Turn five: Opponent concedes.
Compare that to an Ornithopter, no contest.
SBing is complex,
Against Goblins, on the draw, - Thoughtcast - Chalice of the Void for + Chill + Miscalculation.
Against Goblins, on the play, - Force of Will - Cloud of Faeries for + Chill + Miscalculation.
Against Threshold, on the draw, - Thoughtcast - Cranial Plating for + Misdirection + Winter Orb
Against Threshold, on the play, -Thoughtcast - Cloud of Faeries for + Misdirection + Miscalculation.
Against High Tide, - Thoughtcast - Cloud of Faeries for + Misdirection + Miscalculation.
Against Landstill, -Thoughtcast - Cloud of Faeries - Cranial Plating for + Misdirection + Miscalculation + Winter Orb.
Against IGGY POP, - Thought Cast - Cranial Plating for + Misdirection + Miscalculation
Against TES, - Thoughtcast - Cranial Plating for + Chill + Miscalculation.
Against Loam, - Thoughtcast for + Miscalcuation
Chill and Miscalculation come in against most Survival and Zoo esq decks.
Misdirection and Miscalcuation are great in the SB, because the deck can SB in blue cards for artifacts with out adding additional blue sources in order to do it.
Right now, I'm considering replacing Winter Orb with Rishadan Port in the SB, because the effects are similar, except Rishadan Port is pre-emptive, adds mana is 0cc under a Sphere of Resistance and is better against combo (I wouldn't SB out Cranial Plating for it against Threshold tho')
That's a pretty dumb opponent to let you play a Chalice for one with only one mana.
He did play a chrome mox and imprint it with blue so he had 2 blue mana BTW.
Granted, that draw is pretty nuts, but by removing thopter, you have nothing to stop a lackey turn 1 when your going second, i can see that being a problem for your deck.
he played land and mox
most versions are running tin street though, so if they actually manage to hanv one in hand, your whole big plan just got killed. You just tried to create a really good situation for yourself, and came up with a marginal one. you could easily come up with a better one than that which would actually beat goblins. Most RG builds oly run 2-3 tin street, but your example is actually saying that they run tinkerer. Tinkerer is awful by comparison, and you will see much more Tin ST.
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er, what?I SB it out against other aggro, I SB it out against TES , all of the match ups where this deck needs business
Step 1: Draw two
Step 2: play spells
Step 3: profit
I'm not even going to get into Keeneye Aven.
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
That's interesting. I didn't know they errata'ed Cloud of Faeries to untap artifacts.
I said the same thing, but the R/w version with Goblin Tinkerer and Swords to Plowshares seems to be more popular; I'm not certain what the reason for this is, because Tin Street Hooligan and Krosan Grip are awesome.
Regardless, replacing Goblin Tinkerer for Tin Street Hooligan, that game is still won, because the best the Tin Street Hooligan can do is remove the Cranial Plating, at which point the Tin Street Hooligan trades with one of the Frogmites and the Somber Hoverguard and the remaining Frogmite go in for the win with Sphere of Reistance restraining the opponent's Goblins.
That game wasn't doctored.
@246505, Ornithopter isn't need, Arcbound Ravager, Frogmite and Cloud of Faeries can still come down on turn one to stop them from connecting. It's nice, but Ornithopter is underpowered, and Ornithoper has never won a game for me alone. I've double Sphered a lot of decks out of the game, it's just an unfair advantage for me against them.
You're better on the play and possibly worse on the draw, use a weighted coin
@Frogboy, look at the SBing, Thoughtcast is the first card boarded out in most of the match ups; stopping the opponent from resolving hate and protecting the disruption is more important than drawing two cards.
Also note, that against Engineered Explosives, Sphere of Resistance causes it to cost at least one, so Chalice of the Void can counter at one when it's on the stack against Threshold.
Edit: Read the post people, Chrome Mox imprinted Cloud of Faeries, it's so obvious.
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