[Deck] UWb Fish

[Tosh]

wow, what a smug little prick.

Looking back, I may have been a little harsh in some of my statements (I have edited them to take out the snide parts) and although excuses don't account for much it is finals week and I haven't gotten much sleep.
I realize now that I have been working on a deck that is quite a bit different than you and mine is more centered around the control aspect of aggro-control. Your deck is tuned finer in comparison to your goal than mine is to my goal. My deck needs more work and most likely not be complete in time for GP Columbus. I fully support people running the current list in this thread.
Rather than trying to create a new strain of UWb Fish I tried to impose my ideas on your deck which was wrong. I did not necessarily want to start a new thread for what I thought was the same deck and this thread was starting to fall behind as far as latest post date so I tried to revive it.

[Anarky87]

I disagree on several points here:

Almost the entire format is tuned to destroy a 1 toughness creature (because of Lackey). Grunt and Avenger are significantly harder to get rid of than confidant. I'm not putting down Confidant because he is a good card; I have been thinking about -1 Top +1 Confidant.

They aren't significantly harder to get rid because the format guns for a certain 1/1 with StP and Bolt, which so happen to be excellent at handling Grunt and Avenger, aren't they? Filling your deck with crappy cards that only handle 1/1's makes them pretty shitty when your opponent trumps you with a 2/2 or greater creature.

I do not understand you: according to what you just said and what has been said previously, there are not any bad match ups for this deck and I find that hard to believe. If you can prove that Fish has a good MU against Aggro I'll believe you, but in the 3-type format (Aggro, Combo, and Control) it is my understanding that the Aggro is the weakest match up.

I don't believe I mentioned anywhere that this deck has no bad matchups. What I did mention, however, was that this deck shouldn't have a weak game against aggro unless you're keeping bad hands or playing suboptimal cards (Counterbalance). What I was getting at was that I've watched this deck (And Sammiel can back me up, because we were both at the same tournament) take on another pure aggro deck other than Goblins and win. Sure it went to 3 games and was quite a nail biter, but Fish pulled it out. He also stomped me game 1 of round 1 when I was playing Red Death by getting Mom out with a couple of Mages on key cards. The deck has the tools to beat aggro just fine.

I'm not gonna argue points of Counterbalance in this deck, because I've already stated my opinion and Hanni has expressed the reason it should be excluded. I'm not trying to get in a fight here, I just don't see why people are finding the deck inadequate in its current state. A friend of mine T8'd at the 50+ man dual land tournament in Chicago with this deck, playing Goblins multiple times throughout the day and didn't stumble until the T8 match where he got land screwed, then flooded. Since your ideas and Hanni's are heading in opposite directions, it might be best to submit your deck as a new thread in Development.

[Hanni]

I'm not mad at you in any way for proposing your ideas in this thread. You took the UWb deck and modified it to fit Counterbalance. That's fine. You weren't the only one discussing Counterbalance either. All I was trying to get across is that some of your logic was flawed. Drawing multiple Confidants is not bad, Counterbalance sucks in this deck, and the aggro matchup is not terrible (and Counterbalance doesn't improve the aggro matchup). Most importantly... if you're going to try and improve the aggro matchup, make sure you're improving the Goblins matchup before anything else.

Things like Negator, Counterbalance, etc suck vs Goblins.

[Zilla]

Can you shed light on how they function differently then? Both of the cards' purpose is to accelerate; however, I admit that how they accelerate is slightly different: the board or cards in hand.

They function differently because one generates tempo and the other generates card advantage. Those are not the same thing.

[Tosh]

I am currently participating in the Star City Games' Winter Legacy event playing my decklist and I look forward to seeing how well I do in it. I play this deck weekly at a legacy tournament that I co-run and has about 20-30 people. Most of the people I play against are one of the following:
Someone on my team (Team Infoninjas)
A bad player with a good deck
A person playing a bad deck (doesn't matter if the player is good or not)

I would like to collect results for my deck to see its match up against some of the top deck right now but my team is focusing on MeatHooks which they will be taking to GP Columbus (I can't go). I have played Vial Goblins on a couple of occasions and didn't have any problems beating the shit out of 'em games 1 and 2 (the player wasn't exactly that good though). It may seem inconsistent but even without cantrips and top, I've found that Counterbalance could counter many spells by just being on the board.

As far as my logic goes: as I mentioned before, I am kind of tired and realize that the Confidant/Lackey comparison was not a good comparison (as pointed out by GodZilla) and I apologize for that. I knew the difference between Confidant (Card Advantage) and Lackey (Tempo) but I guess I was trying to force my ideas through without the proper analysis. With that, I retire from my distorted reasoning until I am in full control of my thoughts (AKA when finals are over) and return to the logical reasoning I normally have.

[Nihil Credo]

From my experience, the "problem" with Counterbalance is that it's essentially a control card. It puts you into a position to gain overwhelming card advantage, not tempo. That clashes with stuff like Jotun Grunt.

If you're familiar with Standard, you should take a look at the Structure&Force deck that the Japanese made Tier 1 while both Kamigawa and Coldsnap were in the format. The deck is pure control, using as win conditions nothing but Jittes, Court Hussars, Dark Confidants, and a single Meloku. I'm going to evolve the decklist I posted above into something similar - mostly upping the amount of removal at the expense of its creature count.

It may or may not turn out to be a good deck (my hope is that it becomes a Duck Hunt version that does not autolose to Solidarity ). But it definitely won't belong in any Fish thread.

[Adan]

I really hope that smiley was meant to imply irony. Meddling Mage set on High Tide is really not such a great problem for Solidarity if it is not backed up by a decend clock (or insane amounts of counterspells). I have won tons of games through Meddling Mage and multiple counters (UGw Threshold, UW Landstill post sideboard, etc.). Twincast and Reset create more than enough mana if you have 5 or more lands.

But doesn't the usual builds only run 1 copy of Twincast? And the single copy in the Sb must also first be fetched with Cunning Wish.

And you also said IF you got 5 or more lands.

I would also say that Dark Confidant draws a lot of cards in that time (with Serum Visions and Brainstorm digging deeper into your library, finding Counters, Clock and so on).

Maybe finding another Meddling Mage to prohibit Cunning Wish.

I still believe these moves are only good on paper, but can't be efficient enough. But i think we are the same opinion when I say that UWb Fish is indeed a uncomfortable matchup for Solidarity.

Anyways, I think UWb Fish already became a competitive deck here. And I think I will give it a try asap.

[Kirika]

Well been looking at this deck again since Countersliver really does bend over to mass removal and has no way to draw cards. Really miss dark confidant when playing with Slivers. I do like playing with slivers though. This is my latest list. Included my boarding strategy also cause others asking about it. Might be going with this list for GP Columbus if the testing of Survival Slivers doesn't go to well.

I really think you need to stick with 4 Bob since he is the only way to draw cards. Sure he isn't good in multiples but you always want a Bob to draw cards. Bob has the life expectance of a mayfly in spring anyway so 4 is good.

The whole Confidant, Top, Counterbalance, Trinket Mage deck is a whole different deck which deserves its own thread. Its a good deck in extended. Works really well with Togs. haven't tried it in legacy though.

Considering droping Serenity for Kataki, Serenity is good against enchantments like the one Enchantress player at my local shop tho.

Artifact
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Black
4 Dark Confidant

Blue
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Serum Visions
3 Stifle

Gold
4 Meddling Mage

White
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Mother of Runes
2 Serra Avenger
4 Swords to Plowshares

Land (18)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

Sideboard (15)
3 Duress
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Engineered Plague
2 Pithing Needle
2 Serenity
2 Vendalken Shackles



Sideboarding

Affinity
-3 Stifle -3 Mother of Runes
+2 Enginereed Explosives +2 Serenity +2 Vendalken Shackles
Stifle isn't too good and Mother of Runes doesn't help against artifact creatures so they go for Engineered Explosives which kills Plating and Ravager, Serenity the artifact sweeper and Vendalken Shackles which can steal their smaller dudes to chump block. Serenity + Shackles is not a combo but I'll gladly blow up my shackles to nuke their board. Considering adding Pithing Needle too cause it can disable Plating but if I Serenity it blows up and they can blow it up if they run green for Krosan Grip / Ancient Grudge. Considering Kataki instead of Serenity but affinity is prepared for Kataki and Serenity does double duty against enchantress and replenish.

Black White Discard
-1 Force of Will -1 Daze -1 Mother of Runes
+3 Duress
Duress functions as a proactive counter without disadvantages of card disadvantage or mana developent and Mother of Runes tends to die really fast in this match up so gets taken out.

Enchantress
-3 Stifle -1 Daze
+2 Serenity +2 Vendalken Shackles/Engineered Explosives
Serenity is a no brainer. Shackles depends on how critter heavy they are and if they run the untargetable Enchantress otherwise Explosives might be a better bet. If you on the draw might wanna take out the Dazes for Duress.

Goblins
-3 Daze, -1 Dark Confidant -1 Meddling Mage -1 Force of Will
+4 Engineered Plague +2 Pithing Needle
Remove Daze because it hinders the get 4 mana to play and equipe Jitte plan, 1 Confidant and 1 Mage cause they not so hot against Goblins and add in Engineered Plague the goblin killer and 2 Pithing Needle for Vials.

Iggy Pop
-4 Swords to Plowshares -1 Mother of Runes
+3 Duress +2 Pithing Needle
Remove useless creature removal and put in duress to disrupt them and Pithing Needle for their artifact mana.

Land Still
-4 Swords to Plowshares -1 Daze/Mother of Runes
+3 Duress +2 Pithing Needle
Swords isn't that good only kill factory. daze isn't so hot on the draw. Duress attacks their hand. Pithing Needle turns off Factory for good.

Madness
-3 Daze -1 Stifle
+2 Pithing Needle (name Mongrel/Aquameba) +2 Vendalken Shackles
Remove Daze and something else to put in Needle to stop their madness outlets and shackles to steal their dudes. Daze is removed cause it is important to get to 4 mana to play and equip Jitte. Might be better to take something else out instead of Stifle because GU madness runs wasteland not sure on what though.

Mirror
-4 Swords to Plowshares -3 Daze/Stifle
+2 Engineered Explosives +2 Vendalken Shackles + 3 Duress
The plan is to name Swords to Plowshares with your Meddling Mage so board yours out. Explosives on 2 is great if you get behind, Vendalken Shackles steals their guys and 3 Duress assuming they smart and play around Daze might as well take em out if you on the draw otherwise take out Stifle.

Survival
-3 Stifle -1 Daze on the draw
+2 Engineered Explosives +2 Pithing Needle
Not much to stifle other then fetches. Engineered Explosives kills Survival or guys. Pithing Needle disables Survival Shackles steals their dudes.

Threshhold
-4 Swords to Plowshares -3 Stifle/daze
+3 Duress +2 Engineered Explosives +2 Vendalken Shackles
Remove stifle cause its not that good if they play their fetches smart or Daze if you are on the draw. and swords to plowshares cause the plan is to name Swords with Mage. Duress helps attack their hand, explosives and shackles are creature control.

[Hanni]

I think I'm going try Nightmare's advice and drop a lone Swamp for another Tundra (8 fetch + 4 Tundra better supports 3 Avengers) and try this board plan vs Goblins:

-3 Daze
-2 Dark Confidant
-1 Jotun Grunt

+4 Engineered Plague
+2 Pithing Needle

Now, I'm not really sure that I want to get rid of the Confidant's since they help dig for Plague/Jitte but it does reduce my need for black sources and it does die extremely easy without Mom on the board. The life loss isn't really a concern for me vs Goblins as was suggested, and having more overall men is a solid strategy, but I think I should be good with 2 Confidant. I also drop a Grunt simply because they force me to play the beatdown when I really need to play the Control until I can get Plague/Jitte.

If I see Chalice in game 2, I'll probably board in EE in game 3, dropping the other 2 Dark Confidants.

I still like having Meddling Mage in vs Goblins since it prevents them from playing Piledriver when Vial has 3+ counters and it also stops their bombs when they either don't have Vial or I have Needle on Vial.

[Citrus-God]

Goblins isn't really aggro though, it's aggro/combo/control. Normal aggro decks don't run Fact or Fictions, etc. Goblins is quite a bit different in design from normal aggro decks in that it has overwhelming amounts of card advantage.

What aggro matchups are we talking about, specifically? Faerie Stompy? Angel Stompy? Zoo? Affinity? It would be nice if you specified it more than simply "aggro" because there are different matchup percentages pre and post board for each deck.

Counterbalance is crap vs aggro... let's suppose you do cast it on turn 2. That means that instead of playing a creature, you played a worthless enchantment. What happens if they drop a guy on turn 1? What happens if Counterbalance doesn't counter the guy they drop on turn 2? I'm not quite sure how you figure, exactly, that Counterbalance is going to help you beat aggro. Aggro (aside from Goblins) doesn't beat you by playing a ton of threats and finally pushing through in the mid-late. They beat you by applying pressure that you can't deal with fast enough early on. The reason why the aggro matchup isn't nearly as bad as it seems many people think is because the deck utilizes tempo... you're going to Force/Daze/StP their first few early beats while applying a bit of you're own. During the late game, you have the advantage of card quality via cantrip, card draw via Confidant, and the other virtual card advantages the deck has.

Tempo decks lose to Midgame decks and Aggro decks in general. I know this deck can assume the Midgame role as well if needed, but I was just saying based on the metagame clock.

Now for Aggro, I dont think he meant Aggro really. Aggro like RDW, Boros Deck Wins, RG Beatz, Zoo, and etc, etc, are kinda dead in this metagame right now. It may rise back up in popularity with the list(s) that just Top 8 TML Open 2.

As for Counterbalance, I've said this once, and I'll say it again; it's not meant to be maindecked. It's a horrible Maindeck card that simply says "I lose" if used against the wrong match up. This makes Goblins less than 50/50 because you lost 1st Game, and you really cant expect yourself to fluke your way out 2nd and 3rd Game. It's still something that should be considered for the SB. No, it's not win-more, it's just better than most things considered for the SB IMO.

Also, this is how you play with Counterbalance right versus Aggro like Beatz or Zoo; You can (and probably should) drop it early to protect your creatures from a mass of removal, then you move on to playing those creatures. Also, this deck has a 1 and 2 mana curve... so does Zoo. I dont see much wrong with Counterbalance blindly Countering at the creatures Zoo plays since they basically have the same mana curve.

If you are going to side in against Aggro, these are the Aggro decks you should considering siding it against;

RG Beatz, Zoo, and 9-Land Stompy. You can still side in against Midgame decks like Threshold, Fish, The Rock, RGSA (both variants), Zilla Stompy,

Has everyone basically forgot this deck's skeleton is based off Threshold's? You run cantrips, free-counter magic, and the like. You should have an edge, then you drop it to keep them pinned down. Chances are, they will get back in the game due to your exhaust.

I know you will say something like RG Beatz is a favorable MU. I think otherwise after seeing my teammate obliterrate through his swiss rounds to the Top 8, he faced a quantity of Hanni Fish. I think the reason why his deck did well was because his deck was philosophically designed to fight Goblins and Threshold. I said Philosophically; that means it was designed solely on foiling Threshold's early game strategies and midgame advantage via Wasteland, and fast beats early game, trump card midgame. It did the same to Fish apparently.

Also, I dont seem to think Sensei's Divining Top sucked in testing. I usually like seeing it around turn 3 or so. I keep them in against Goblins due to how powerful they are combined with Shuffle effects. I basically look in every direction of my deck trying to find Engineered Plague against Goblins with the help of Cantrips and Shuffle effect. It's amazing. You dont want 3 copies unless your going to side in the 3rd Top to compliment with Counterbalance.

Hanni, I urge you to test Counterbalance. You'll be suprised. Of course, it should only be Post-Board games. It can potentially make the most one-sided games in your favor. It's flexibility throughout the format. You can side it in in the following match ups...

Angel Stompy
Fish
Threshold
Solidarity
RGSA
RGbSA
Truffle Shuffle
Wombat
Rifter
Landstill
Red Death
9-Land Stompy
Zoo
Boros Deck Wins
Red Deck Wins
RG Beatz
RGb Aggro
Zilla Stompy
Spring Tide
The Rock
The EPIC Storm

I can name more... I'm getting kinda lazy.

Also, I need opinions on my new list...


// Lands 17
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
1 Plains
2 Island


// Creatures 16
3 Mother of Runes
4 Meddling Mage
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Serra Avenger


// Spells 27
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Pithing Needle


// Sideboard 15
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Counterbalance
3 Hydroblast
4 Engineered Plague


Goblins:

-2 Dark Confidant
-2 Counterspell
-1 Meddling Mage
-1 Jotun Grunt
-1 Serum Visions
-1 Sensei's Divining Top

+1 Pithing Needle
+3 Hydroblast
+4 Engineered Plague


Gro:

-2 Pithing Needle
-1 Plains
-1 Serum Visions

+1 Sensei's Divining Top
+3 Counterbalance


Solidarity:

-1 Plains
-2 Pithing Needle
-4 Swords to Plowshares

+1 Sensei's Divining Top
+3 Counterbalance
+3 Hydroblast


TES:

-1 Plains
-2 Pithing Needle
-2 Umezawa's Jitte
-2 Serra Avenger

+3 Counterbalance
+1 Sensei's Divining Top
+3 Hydroblast


Tell me what you guys think.

[Caboose]

Here's the SB I'm currently working with:

4 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
3 Hydroblast
2 Serenity
2 Engineered Explosives



Hydro might come out for Needle if Goblins doesn't make a big showing at the GPT. But Goblins actually hasn't proven to be a problem against me when I bring in Plague + Blast.




All I know is, a lot of people are knocking this deck, and it's really unfair. This is not a Finn deck. We don't play Karakas or Stonecloaker. Also, HanniFish doesn't rely on the graveyard to make it's critters worthwhile, so it's more resiliant to hate. Confidant is stuntin' like his daddy in this deck. Also, the CA Fish has over Thresh and its non-reliance on the yard actually makes this a better choice for the GP than Thresh.

[Citrus-God]

Here's the SB I'm currently working with:

4 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
3 Hydroblast
2 Serenity
2 Engineered Explosives



Hydro might come out for Needle if Goblins doesn't make a big showing at the GPT. But Goblins actually hasn't proven to be a problem against me when I bring in Plague + Blast.




All I know is, a lot of people are knocking this deck, and it's really unfair. This is not a Finn deck. We don't play Karakas or Stonecloaker. Also, HanniFish doesn't rely on the graveyard to make it's critters worthwhile, so it's more resiliant to hate. Confidant is stuntin' like his daddy in this deck. Also, the CA Fish has over Thresh and its non-reliance on the yard actually makes this a better choice for the GP than Thresh.

Try this tech in your SB:

-4 Duress
-2 Engineered Explosives

+3 Counterbalance
+3 Sensei's Divining Top

You can put some Tops in the maindeck so you can free up some room in the SB for other stuff.

If you thinking about adding Needle into the deck, I think you'd rather have Disenchant instead, since it can get rid of Chalice of the Void as well as Vial.

Serenity is crazy good.

Hydroblasts are okay. I think you'd rather have a 4th Stifle over the 3rd Hydroblast just to fight Wasteland so you can constantly drop that Turn 3 Plague over and over again.

[Caboose]

I've been testing this deck extensively, and have come to the conclusion that it is the absolute shit.

Flames removed. Consider this a warning. Cool it on the personal remarks or action will be taken. - Zilla

What are you guys running in the SB? I'm currently sitting at:

Sideboard (15)
4 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Serenity
2 Engineered Explosives

I find it to be adequate against a random meta. Thoughts?

[blitz]

I've been testing this deck extensively, and have come to the conclusion that it is the absolute shit. Even Finn could win with this deck, and as we all know, Finn winning is like a crippled man dancing.

What are you guys running in the SB? I'm currently sitting at:

Sideboard (15)
4 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Serenity
2 Engineered Explosives

I find it to be adequate against a random meta. Thoughts?

just curious, with that SB, what are you siding out, and in what matchups?

[Mirrislegend]

Is the list on the front page the most up-to-date? If not, could someone please point me to it? And let me know if it's been updated for Hulk Flash (although this deck has a plenty good game vs that already).

[Hanni]

The list on the front page is the current version of this deck and has not been updated/changed in about a couple months. The maindeck is designed to beat Goblins while retaining strong matchups against everything else.

If you think the deck needs tweaked to beat pre-FS Hulk Flash, be my guest. I won't be changing the decklist until after FS gets released.

To beat pre-FS Hulk Flash, the current maindeck has:

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Stifle
4 Meddling Mage

Postboard, it gains:

3 Duress

Dark Confidant will continually draw me into answers. Since this is pre-FS, we aren't dealing with Pact of Negation. If they run Daze, that may make things a little difficult, but if you consider there is no Summoner's Pact, you don't really need to fear a turn 0 or turn 1 kill. Given that, the deck easily has enough time to cast Meddling Mages or play around Daze with it's countermagic. You don't need to drop men early against Hulk... it's not like traditional combo. If you get a Mom on Meddling Mage naming Flash, it's GG.

If they run Duress instead of Daze, that might be a little more difficult. At least for game 1. Game 2 you're getting Duress yourself and you know what you're playing against so you know how to mulligan properly.

Postboard, the Duress gives the deck 17 hate cards. All this, and the deck still has a favorable Goblins matchup.

If you really fear Hulk Flash, you can go with -1 Mother, -1 Jitte, -1 Avenger for 3 maindeck Duress. I'd suggest putting those cards in the sideboard if you do. Even though Hulk Flash is fairly well known right now on The Source and such, there are still going to be tons of players running decks like Goblins. Not everyone knows about Hulk Flash, and not everyone who does know about it is taking it seriously.

I haven't made up my mind if I want to go back to MD Duress or not. I was really enjoying the fact that my Goblins matchup and other aggro matchups were so much stronger than before.

Either way... I do not believe that pre-FS Hulk Flash is going to give this deck a hard time. Post-FS, yea sure. That deck has Summoner's Pact (and Negation and Wraith) which make a tremendous difference. I think pre-FS lists are going to be quite a bit slower, which makes them less threatening, and they are still going to lose to themselves on occasion. Add in the fact that this is probably the best [realistic] deck to play against it with (when I say realistic, I mean without significantly changing), there should be little to no problems beating pre-FS Hulk Flash.

After FS is released, I'll probably put Duress MD with Leylines SB. I think anything more than that would simply be overkill and weaken my other matchups too much.

A post-FS list could look like this:

UWb Fish

Lands (17)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Plains

Creatures (17)
4 Mother of Runes
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Serra Avenger
4 Dark Confidant
4 Meddling Mage

Spells (26)
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Stifle
4 Duress
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sideboard (15)
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Winter Orb
3 Umezawa's Jitte

If Goblins isn't big, the Plagues could be dropped to deal with whatever else is big in the metagame. Jitte will answer the other fishy decks and Winter Orb will deal with the control decks like Tog. EE is just a general use card and could quite possibly be dropped to deal with whatever the metagame demands. The Leylines, Jittes, and Winter Orb's seem like mainstays though. Preboard, the deck should be 60/40 against Hulk Flash. Know one probably believes that, I don't care. Post board, they bring in sideboard options and you bring in Leylines, so the matchup might stay 60/40 or go up to 70/30, I don't know.

Back to the topic at hand: for the GP, I probably won't be changing the maindeck or sideboard. If I feel that, right before the GP, that I want additional hate for Hulk, I'll drop:

-1 Mother of Runes
-1 Serra Avenger
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
+3 Duress

And thats that.

[Anarky87]

I've been playing against HF with my team and on MWS for the past day or so and I haven't been intimidated by it. I've only lost a few times because of only getting 1 land even after Brainstorm and Visions, but that happens. Otherwise I've been raping them with Mage backed up by control or Mother of Runes. They literally can't win. Confidant also just makes the game unfair. I can see the deck being pretty nasty after FS, but I'm not all that worried about it now. The MD is pretty much set to handle the deck.

[Windux]

Here is what I'm gonna play:

// Lands
1 [UNH] Island
1 [UNH] Plains
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [R] Underground Sea
4 [R] Tundra
1 [B] Scrubland

// Creatures
3 [UL] Mother of Runes
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
4 [PS] Meddling Mage

// Spells
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [NE] Daze
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [SC] Stifle
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [7E] Duress
3 [FD] Serum Visions

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Counterbalance
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [PC] Extirpate
SB: 2 [TE] Perish


Surprise, Surprise.
"This is Fish? This is shit"..No, no really.
It's really great to play in a meta with much Mirror, NQG (coming soon... with Tarmogoyf) and now Hulk Flash.

The Counterbalance is more often useful then useless.
It's like:
You hate Goblins preboard (which you do anyway),
but you love the Mirror, Combo, NQG, Suicide/Red Death/Ale even more.

I dropt Avenger due you don't even need him. Why? You just play the TMWA-tactic:
You don't want to win, you want to ping your opponent until he get's crazy and scoops (or beaten by Mother of Runes and Meddling Mage ;P ).
I'm just so happy with this list. You don't have to fear against Hulk Flash and your matchup against nearly every deck is not increased ("nearly every != Goblins").

[Hanni]

Windux, is that your GP list? Regardless of the hype of Hulk Flash, there will be aggro and there will be Goblins.

You hate Goblins preboard (which you do anyway),

Actually, I love playing against Goblins. I haven't lost a match to Goblins with Fish since October. Since then, the extra Mom, Jitte, Avenger, and Stifles have seriously improved my Goblins matchup. Preboard is pretty good actually, the matchup is no less than 50/50. Postboard the matchup goes up as much as 70/30. I've had games against Goblins where I win game 1, lose game 2, and win game 2. I wouldn't detune my Goblins matchup for the GP simply because it will still be played, regardless if Hulk Flash gets played.

Post-FS, I still don't think the Counterbalances are worth it. They are too slow and you don't have that kind of time against Hulk Flash. They are obviously great vs the mirror matches but I think, if anything, they'd be better as a sideboard option. You also run only 14 creatures to support Jitte, 3 of them being Mother of Runes. I'm not quite sure if this is enough or not.

The rest of the deck looks very solid.

[noobslayer]

As long as you're playing Mother of Runes, and cost efficiently large bodies, worship seems like it could be an option for consideration. Granted you dn't have goblin lackey, but I think you can fairly manage.