[Deck] R/G/W Zoo

[aznfoodgood]

Well then, hello every one, id just like to start off by saying that the old zoo thread has not had a post since November of last year and it played some arguable cards that didn’t seem right to my initial instincts. Currently, WGR is pwning type 2, a well-defined Meta that contains every single deck from agro to midrange agro to control and combo. Why is that deck doing better then the legacy one? simple, it plays the philosophy of fire, cards= damage= win. This means that every card played is worth a certain amount of damage in a game. Ideally when you have cards that equate to 20 damage, you win…

Lets look at the old zoo list and compare

4 goblin legionnaire
4 nimble mongoose
3 werebear
4 blastoderm
3 savannah lions

4 lightning bolt
4 incinerate
4 fire/ice

4 swords to plowshares
2 tithe

4 isocron scepter

3 wooded foothills
2 windswept heath
4 plateau
4 taiga
4 savannah
1 mountain
1 forest
1 plains

Note, this is only the list taken directly from the San Diego Zoo list, a deck that dose not revolve around the philosophy of fire. Cards like isocron scepter, tithe and swords, wile rather good in control decks, are horrendously bad here. What happens when you top deck scepter? I know what I do, I yell FUCK out loud and I wish to kill my self. So what is the remedy for this problem? Play a better fucking deck

Hears the list, there are some arguable cards in hear as with all decks, but please bare with me as I try to explain the importance of every single card.

Lands
4 wastelands
4 taigas
4 plateau
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heaths
1 bloodstained mire

creatures
4 Kird apes
4 Grim lavamancer
3 Isamaru
1 Savannah lions
4 Watch wolfs
4 Wld mongrels

burn
3 magma jets
4 incinerates
4 lightning bolt
4 chain lightning
4 fire blast

Yes sir this is the deck. Is averages a turn 4 clock with mana disruption and the ability to finish out side of combat. Do you see the difference between this deck and that previous one? All of these cards are business spells. They all work directly towards winning you the game.

Hear are the card choices
Mana base
All of the lands are necessary; wasteland is VERY helpful in some of the more unfavorable match ups. Currently im playing 21 because wasteland makes the mana a little to tight for 20 lands. Wasteland is also more important then savannah because savannah cant be pitched to fire blast, or be used to disrupt your opponent

Creatures
4 kird apes- this guy is amazing. 2/3 for R yeah he’s reds best 1 drop

3 isamaru- I guess you could say that its kird apes little brother. As a 2/2 for 1 he’s still amazing, he gets the job done and helps with damage races. Also the other savannah lion is in there due to the legendary factor.

4 grim- this guy is great against every deck out there with the acceptation of combo. His ability to deal 2 damage makes him a very strong choice. He can finish games out side of combat as well as pick guys off so you can swing thought with your bigger creatures

4 watch wolf- 3/3 for 2, sure ill take it, actually, id take 8 if I could…

4 wild mongrel- well he is no watch wolf, but he can use your late game lands and turn them into damage. Also, combo with grim makes him next to invincible.

Burn
4 bolt- yeah

4 chain- yeah

4 incinerate- well I guess I could play helix, but then the mana is VERY tight and 1 waste land just makes it suck

3 magma jets- 2 damage was under whelming… I was never very impressed with this card, however, scry is useful and its better then the fire/ice crap they were playing in that other zoo deck.

4 fire blast- yes this card ends games. It says “take 4, and like it.” The ability to play it literally for free when you race against other decks makes this card one of a kind.

Cards that weren’t included
Mogg fantastic- well I was already playing grim and I didn’t using him against combo. He was just to slow.

Skyshoud elite- ehh, when your running wasteland, it gets interesting and I didn’t want to be put into that situation, besides, Isamaru is always a 2/2

Scab-clan mauler- well he is like 4 more watch wolves, but he’s also not… the fact that you must damage your opponent is very relevant. If decks can deal with turn 1 lack, then they can deal with this decks 1 drop threats.

Goblin Ligonier- very good card, excellent at everything, but is also WR to cast. I had trouble running him side by side watch wolf.

Lightning helix- again, the mana was just to tight.

All of the 3 and 4 drop creatures
They were just to slow, I would play them on there respected turns and realize that I wouldn’t be able to keep up with combo decks and don’t say mana acceleration because that’s just a big waste of time.

SB options and my personal choices
4 pyrostatic pillar- the best card against storm combo
4 red blast- good all around against fish, combo and blue based control
2 sword of light and shadow- insane against swords and fish decks, enough said
3 joten grunt- kills decks that work out of the graveyard
2 krosian grip- deals with random stuff

Match ups,
Goblins- wow this was surprisingly easy 70-30 pro board and 80-20 post board. The gobs player has 2 options, early vial (probably the best) and early lackey. If he goes early vial, then I will literally kill him in 4 turns provided that he doesn’t see any mana disruption. What does a goblins player do against kird ape? He crys because he realizes that a 2/3 for 1 is better the any creature he has in his deck. If he goes lackey, then you simply burn his lackey and kill him with 2/2s, 2/3s and 3/3s. If worst comes to worst, just slap down grim and kill everything he owns.

Threshold- 60/40 pre, 70/30 post depending on your board. Honestly, thresh cant deal with wasteland. They usually get thresh around turn 4/5 and by then, their dead… post board, you can bring in all sorts of cards from joten grunt to sword of light and shadow. You might be saying?!?! What? Why not fire and ice? Hears the reasoning… what’s the most common removal spell playing in 1.5? its easy, swords to plowshares. And SOLS gives pro white and also makes your guys equal to threshes bears. Lavamancer obviously doesn’t do much hear, but he can end the game if the board is locked.

Storm basted combo- yeah its not a favorable mach up (40-60 pre 50-50 post) although my brother has not lost around against storm combo playing only G/R ape shit… pyrostatic pillar is good game hear. Decks like TES cant deal with it and usually you can disrupt them with wasteland because there mana base is so terrible.

Dead guy- (60-40 pre 60-40 post) discard? Not that good… he has some good creatures, but yours are better. Just kill confidant early. Shade is also an easy target because you need mana open to make it work. The only creature to be worried about is joten grunt and he dies after 2 turns. Post board, bring it jitte and kill him. Hymn can also be anying early in the game, but if you hammer out early beats, you should win the game.

Truffle shuffle- (35-65 pre 35-65 post) wow this is bad. He has everything in his deck that kills you. Board sweeps, spot removal and on top of that, he can gain life to… how lame. Most times it just comes down to weather or not he had the hierarch or not. Wasteland does help, but not enough

Fairy stompy- (60-40 pre 65-35 post) honestly, I don’t see what is so damn good about this deck. It plays some of the worst cards in the game… come on psy blast? Are you kidding me? Also, they get pwned by their mana base because ancient tomb kicks the crap out of them. Wasteland will be relevant hear. Its also fun to watch them play sea drake on turn 2, scoop up 2 lands and then kill it with a bolt, very funny, I laugh every time… wild mongrel helps against the chalets. Post, just bring in jitte, that’s all that matters.

Lands decks like landstill and 43 land- (70-30 pre 75-25 post) Tabernacle is a plain in the ass, but most of the time, you only need to deal 10 points of creature damage. After that, burn to the dome and watch him die. If he drop Orb to save him self, finish with creatures, because his mana base will be nonexistent.

In closing, this deck as fairly good games against most of the meta, only decks with turn 1 wins of massive amounts of gain life cant really hang with it. Any thoughts on 21 lands? Any thoughts on chalice and its impact on the deck? Is philosophy of fire the right call here?

[Maverick676]

This deck looks good, but I do question your landstill and threshold matchups. Honestly these numbers seem a little off. Thresh doesn't just roll over to non reccurring wasteland and their threats are bigger than yours, Tarmogoyf in particular comes to mind here. Also in my experience landstill has to have an extremely slow start in order to lose very often to any kind of zoo deck.

[kicks_422]

I don't think this can be called Zoo anymore... It looks more like Sligh splash green AND white to me.

That out of the way, I'm not sold on your decision NOT to run Helix over Incinerate. You've already got 8 cards in there that require white and 12 that require green (I'm counting the Kird Apes here, since they're crap without Forests, obv). Your manabase seems like it can handle Helixes (Helixi?). Also, you might want to cut one of each dual and a fetchland to it in basics of each color (any maybe 1 Fireblast).

[Cait_Sith]

The plural of Helix is Helices.

Your matchup numbers make no sense what so ever.

TES can easily deal with Pyrostatic Pillar. Wish for Hull Breach, kill Pillar, Combo out. Going OMG WASTELAND doesn't do much, since you cannot recur, tutor, to even use draw spells to find it.

Thresh being hurt be Wasteland... I am forced to go "Huh?" You were going against the version with BEARS (as opposed to 'Goyfs). Even RECURRING Wastelands don't do terrible amounts of damage to Thresh when they have a bear down, and you have no single spell to deal with a Thresh'd bear.

On your mana base: If I am reading this correctly, you are running 9 Fetches, 8 fetchable lands, and 0 basics. After boasting about how awesome Wasteland is, why is your deck more vulnerable to it than every other deck you list as dieing to it? Do -2 Fetches +2 Basics of your choice.

Further, you run 4 Wastelands in a 3 color aggro deck. That is bad planning there. If you exchange these for basics for maybe some other duals, you can still run 9 fetches, plus include Goblin Legionnaire.

[mikekelley]

Fairy stompy- (60-40 pre 65-35 post) honestly, I don’t see what is so damn good about this deck. It plays some of the worst cards in the game… come on psy blast? Are you kidding me? Also, they get pwned by their mana base because ancient tomb kicks the crap out of them. Wasteland will be relevant hear. Its also fun to watch them play sea drake on turn 2, scoop up 2 lands and then kill it with a bolt, very funny, I laugh every time… wild mongrel helps against the chalets. Post, just bring in jitte, that’s all that matters.

Lands decks like landstill and 43 land- (70-30 pre 75-25 post) Tabernacle is a plain in the ass, but most of the time, you only need to deal 10 points of creature damage. After that, burn to the dome and watch him die. If he drop Orb to save him self, finish with creatures, because his mana base will be nonexistent.

Please test against competant players, not people on MWS, and post real results. I cannot see this deck going 70-30 vs landstill and Faerie Stompy. Seriously, chalice @ 1 shuts down your entire deck.

Why are you running wasteland?

Why are you running no basic lands?


And I think that the statement "Kird Ape is better than every card in a Goblins deck" is just a tad asinine.

[troopatroop]

Your matchup percentages are laughable. Has it ever occured to you that this exact same deck hasn't been posted on these board like 3 other times? Maybe it also occured to you that a decklist from 2 years ago might not be an accurate indicator for comparison, however awful and filled with holes the comparison may have been.

Let me say something that should be said to every new deck post in the New and Developmental with ridiculous matchup percentages.

Your deck doesnt dominate the format.

70-30 Pe board and 80-20 Post board Goblins? Really. I love how your sideboard has nothing for goblins, and yet it instantly turns from 2.3-1 into 4-1.

Did you think we just wouldn't notice? Ridiculous.

[ebbitten]

Your matchup percentages are laughable. Has it ever occured to you that this exact same deck hasn't been posted on these board like 3 other times? Maybe it also occured to you that a decklist from 2 years ago might not be an accurate indicator for comparison, however awful and filled with holes the comparison may have been.

Let me say something that should be said to every new deck post in the New and Developmental with rediculous matchup percentages.

Your deck doesnt dominate the format.

70-30 Pe board and 80-20 Post board Goblins? Really. I love how your sideboard has nothing for goblins, and yet it instantly turns from 2.3-1 into 4-1.

Did you think we just wouldn't notice? Rediculous.

No you see, goblins boards in the wrong stuff against him, because his deck is so tech that they just end up doing that, thats how it goes from 70-30 to 80-20, duh [/sarcasm] Zoo decks are cool, but theres no way they are that powerful and 4 wastelands in a 3 color deck that already has mana troubles? And what's your solidarity matchup look like?

[Mordenkain]

This somehow reminds me of dirt... hmmm.... and Thunder Bluff.... hmmm... wonder why?

[Mijorre]

Yes, Goblin probably sides all their combo-hate. Starts out with a first turn pithing needle on viscid lemures and such. Because they do not expect the beatdown(-ish) deck to do just that. They expect transformational sideboards!

Also, stax called. I think it said 'turn one trinisphere'. Then it laughed and laughed and laughed.

[Nihil Credo]

Casting Watchwolf with that mana base seems as comfortable as masturbating with sandpaper.

[Mordenkain]

Casting Watchwolf with that mana base seems as comfortable as masturbating with sandpaper.

Sigged.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

aznfoodgood's list is, well, interesting...and not in a good way. I've been playing RGW Zoo for 2 years, and while I'd like to run Wastes, there's no way the mana base can handle it. While Zoo is a classic card advantage deck, your version runs little and I also doubt your match up stats. The colors that are run offer no draw, so the quality of the cards has to be fantastic, and fill many roles. Here's my list:

Land:
4 Taiga
3 Savannah
3 Plataeu
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Moutain

Dudes:
4 Kird Ape
3 Goblin Legionnaire
4 Troll Ascetic
3 Isamaru
2 Loxodon Heirarch

Sorceries:
3 Call of the Herd

Instants:
4 STP
4 Fire/Ice
4 Lightning Helix
2 Orim's Chant

Artifacts:
4 Isochron Scepter
3 Jitte

SB:
4 Chalice
2 Orim's Chant
4 Juton Grunt
3 Krosan Grip
2 Pyrostatic Pillar

While my list is far less aggresive, I feel the changes make for a better deck. It's a lot more mid-game agrro control rather than pure aggro, but I think it works a lot better. A lot of people aren't expecting a possible Orim's Chant lock from a RGW Zoo deck, and that can help a lot of your bad match ups. Also main deck Chants offer at least some protection from combo, even if there's only 2 main. I've never really been unhappy about Scepter, and the thing is a house against goblins. As for the mana base, yeah it hurts when waste lands hit the table, but by no means does it mean you lose. Recurable waste, now that's a different story...

As for match ups, I don't have exact numbers, by the match ups are reliable.

Goblins: You shouldn't lose this one. All your dudes are bigger, you have a ton of removal to back them up, and a Scepter makes them deal, otherwise they scoop. Depending if they run Tin Street or Tinkerer, Scepter Chant spells GG for them.

Thresh: Not favorable. They have way more card filtering than you, and some have mained needles that keep you off Scepter. Troll is huge in this match up if he can make it past counters. It's winnable, just not in your favor.

Solidarity: . That's pretty much it. It gets a little better post board, but not much. You need to hope they get a shit hand, and you have to drop guys like it's your job.

CRET Belcher: If they belch, you're pretty much toast, as with every other deck that belcher goes active on. If they warrens, your chances of winning are better. Fire takes out 2 guys, Helix can gain some life, and Chant can buy you a turn. With the addition of guys you play, you can come out of a warrens in a good postition.

TES: I actually havn't played against TES, so I don't know. The plan is to hide behind chant, but that can be difficult with Xantid Swarm out. The plan is pretty much the same as Belcher if they warrens.

B/W: Usually favorably. You can kill most of their threats while putting some of your own down to apply pressure. If they have a ton of discard it can get tough, escpecially if they get some dudes on the table.

Red Death: I've only played against it once, and my opponent got land screwed. The mana disruption can be hell, along with the discard. Probablly about 50/50.

Stax/Junk Pile/Things playing Chalice and 3sphere: It's more like this: Chalice and Trinisphere called, they want to know how the rape went.

[Skeggi]

I think this thread needs to be revived with the printing of Shards of Alara. Alot of new cards seem viable in here:

Goblin Assault
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a 1/1 red Goblin creature token with haste into play.
Goblin creatures attack each turn if able.

Wild Nacatl
Creature - Cat Warrior
Wild Nacatl gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Plains.
Wild Nacatl gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Mountain.

Ajani Vengeant
Planeswalker - Ajani
+1: Target permanent doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
-2: Ajani Vengeant deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you gain 3 life.
-7: Destroy all lands target player controls.

Qasali Ambusher
Creature - Cat Warrior
Reach
If you control a Forest and a Plains and a creature is attacking you, you may play Qasali Ambusher without paying its mana cost and as though it has flash.
2/3

Sarkhan Vol 2rg (I can't place more than 11 pics in 1 post...)
Planeswalker - Sarkhan
+1: Creatures you control get +1/+1 and gain haste until end of turn.
-2: Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
-6: Put five 4/4 red Dragon creature tokens with flying into play.
Illus. Daarken #194/249 4

Woolly Thoctar rgw (pic-limit FTL)
Creature - Beast

The only difference between a hockey mom and a Woolly Thoctar is lipstick.
#209/249 5/4

This could result in something like this:

4 Kird Ape
4 Savannah Lion
4 Jungle Lion
2 Watchwolf
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Ambusher
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Wooly Thoctar

3 Goblin Assault

2 Sarkhan Vol
--+
45

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Savannah
1 Forest

So...I'm just throwing up a ball here. Any ideas? Tarmogoyf is probably pretty weak in this deck. Might want to replace him. Ofcourse at the moment it's an insane list without any utility. The creatures really need a cut, but it's hard to chose what to dump, because I think they're all pretty awesome.

[KillemallCFH]

A zoo deck with 0 burn spells seems very wrong. I'm not convinced of Goblin Assault's power in here, nor Qualishi Ambusher. I'd try to fit some Lightning Bolts and/or Lightning Helixes in there. Otherwise, decks like Landstill are just going to deal with your initial assault, stabilize at low life, and win from there.

[kicks_422]

And that deck folds to Chalice at 1 more because you have no other reach. And yes, burn spells are really needed to keep the speed and pressure.

I was thinking something like this...

20 lands (assortent of fetches, duals, etc. No wastelands of course.)

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Watchwolf
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Woolly Thoctar

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Fireblast
3 Seal of Fire
4 Chain Lightning
2... Berserk?...

MD curve:

1 - 21
2 - 12
3 - 4
6 (0) - 3

[Peter_Rotten]

I think this thread needs to be revived with the printing of Shards of Alara. Alot of new cards seem viable in here:

I'm going to play the role of Negative Nelly and shoot down each card here just for the sake of argument.

Goblin Assault
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, put a 1/1 red Goblin creature token with haste into play.
Goblin creatures attack each turn if able.

Two words: No Way. 3 mana for a 1/1 haste token next turn is crappy by Legacy standards. Look at things we can do by turn 3. Deed, Goyf, Goose, Threads of Disloyalty, Warchief, Lackey, Standstill, Crusher, Loam, Confidant, Grip, etc. This card sucks and I don't need to be Negative Nelly to prove that.

Wild Nacatl
Creature - Cat Warrior
Wild Nacatl gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Plains.
Wild Nacatl gets +1/+1 as long as you control a Mountain.

On turn one, he can be a 2/2. No big deal. Turn 2 he can be a 3/3. However, her requires you to run a 3 color manabase which opens you open to Wasteland hate. Wasteland will be particularly good against you because you are likely running fewer lands than most decks AND now it can weaken 4 of your critters too. This guys still dies to Bolt. Asses of 4 are the asses we like.

Ajani Vengeant
Planeswalker - Ajani
+1: Target permanent doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
-2: Ajani Vengeant deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you gain 3 life.
-7: Destroy all lands target player controls.
Loyalty 3

Weaksauce. One turn 4, he stalls a permanent. On turn 5 he bolts something. Same on turn 6. He has to live for 5 turn before he can geddon lands! GTFO.

Qasali Ambusher
Creature - Cat Warrior
Reach
If you control a Forest and a Plains and a creature is attacking you, you may play Qasali Ambusher without paying its mana cost and as though it has flash.
2/3

Is this good enough? Simian Grunt sees NO love and his stats are better. To have this guy be free, you need to play a green AND white aggro deck. Frown. OH! And you need to be getting attacked. GTFO.

Sarkhan Vol 2rg (I can't place more than 11 pics in 1 post...)
Planeswalker - Sarkhan
+1: Creatures you control get +1/+1 and gain haste until end of turn.
-2: Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
-6: Put five 4/4 red Dragon creature tokens with flying into play.
Illus. Daarken #194/249
Loyalty 4

This guy is at least interesting. IMO, he might see some play. His second ability is the one I'm the most interested in - good for taking Goyfs, I guess. However, his +1 ability is weak.

Woolly Thoctar RGW(pic-limit FTL)
Creature - Beast

The only difference between a hockey mom and a Woolly Thoctar is lipstick.
#209/249
5/4

Meh. Maybe, but I'm worried about land issues. Maybe you can play him in a deck with BoPs. He'd be scary as fuck coming down on turn 2 and getting Rancor on turn 3. Ass of 4 makes ppl use 2 burn spells to kill him. However, StP still pwns his face.

[Skeggi]

On turn one, he can be a 2/2. No big deal. Turn 3 he can be a 3/3. However, her requires you to run a 3 color manabase which opens you open to Wasteland hate. Wasteland will be particularly good against you because you are likely running fewer lands than most decks AND now it can weaken 4 of your critters too. This guys still dies to Bolt. Asses of 4 are the asses we like.

Nelly, you mean on turn 2 he can be a 3/3. That's pretty sweet. A 1 mana 3/3 is always something to keep in mind. Besides not every meta sees bolts.

About the rest of the cards, you're probably right. I do like the 3 mana 5/4 though.

About the chalice@1 idea: a maindeck disenchant effect probably wouldn't hurt

[Poesjuh]

However, StP still pwns his face.

StP pwns almost every creatures face, pretty lame argument. Can't say I disagree with your other arguments though.

[Peter_Rotten]

StP pwns almost every creatures face, pretty lame argument. Can't say I disagree with your other arguments though.

I should have phrased that sentence better. When we're looking at critters to beat face, we often look at their survivability. Goose has a decent ass and Shroud; Goyf, Doran, and Tombstalker have big asses; Faries can have Shroud; Ichorids are coming back. That 5/4 for RGW offers a fat ass but no other special protection from common removal like StP, Deed, EE, blocking critters, etc.

How much better would he be if we shaved off an ass-point or two and gave him Shroud? Not sure.

[Maveric78f]

I'm quite sure that it's not a good thing to play 4CC spells in zoo decks. However I like the 5/4, and the 3/3. These undercosted creatures definitely need some evasion and rancor*4 looks obvious.

20 lands

4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
2 BTS
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Woolly Thoctar
3 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Fireblast
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rancor
2 Berserk