[Deck] Burn

[Iranon]

Meh... it's not as if an opponent will often want to fling it back. It might cause you to lose damage races once in a while, but the drawback isn't in the same league of Flame Rift or Fork. The problem is that 3-for-2 isn't good in the first place.

An anology: Some horrible Shahrazad milling decks can appear vicious unless you realise that you don't have to play along - concede subgames, suck up the life loss and they fall apart.
In both cases the opponent can completely avoid the uniqueness of the card. The difference is that if they do so, Shahrazad provides a strong effect (1w for half the opponent's life) that doesn't work well with the rest of the deck while a vanilla Chain of Plasma is weak all-around.

Giving an opponent a choice only works if it's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'. That is arguably the case with Browbeat - 5 damage or 3 cards are both very good returns for 3 mana (personally, I still don't like the card). An instant Volcanic Hammer is nothing to write home about.

In theory, a situation might come up where Chain of Plasma does something that doesn't require the consent of the opponent. We can't pave the way for this though, because possible synergistic cards (such as Fiery Temper) are too weak to run in our own deck.
There might be bizarre applications such as massive self-harm in the face of a Pulse of the Fields, but those occasions will be too rare to be significant.

[Wallace]

My current Burn List:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
4 Price of Progress
4 Incinerate
2 Magma Jet
2 Flamebreak
2 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Urza's Bauble

3 Barbirian Ring
4 Bloodstained Mire
11 Mountain

I have droped the Mogg Fanatics for the Baubles. You really want to draw a spell off of the cantrip, Fanatic has been under performing. They are good when you drop them turn one, after that they are just ok. The bauble's let you draw the good burn spells that are available. I really don't like the spells, this version allows you to run less of them. Magma Jet's scry ability is nice, but I would rather do more than 2 damage for 2 mana. Give this list a try, you won't be dissapointed. I don't like to post sideboards due to the fact that they will be diffrent depending on your meta game.

[bigredmeanie]

What's up with the Baubles? Why not just run spells in those slots?

Also, I wouldn't run any fetchlands. They don't thin your deck enough to matter, and they will randomly screw you when your opponent has a Stifle.

[KillemallCFH]

I'm pretty sure he's running fetches for Mishra's Bauble. (Look at top card w/ bauble; if you like it, don't fetch; if you don't, shuffle it away.)

[Jak]

Street Wraith is so much better than Baubles.

Also 3 for 2 being bad? Is that why we run Incinerate?

[Wallace]

I said that I diden't like the spells, didn't say they were bad. The baubles are really good, better than wraith in the testing I have done. I have tried 4 x Bauble 4 x Wraith and it works ok. The wraith seemed to hurt more than it helped, aggro decks were destroying me.The fetch lands do thin you out more than you would think. Running 8 drop cantrips and for fetch's really nets you more usefull spells. Plus like KillemallCFH said, if you Bauble and see a land, you can shuffle with the fetch.

[LordEvilTeaCup]

I said that I diden't like the spells, didn't say they were bad. The baubles are really good, better than wraith in the testing I have done. I have tried 4 x Bauble 4 x Wraith and it works ok. The wraith seemed to hurt more than it helped, aggro decks were destroying me.The fetch lands do thin you out more than you would think. Running 8 drop cantrips and for fetch's really nets you more usefull spells. Plus like KillemallCFH said, if you Bauble and see a land, you can shuffle with the fetch.

Yes, baubles and fetch-lands seem like a solid gameplan. How much more competitive, is your build over the more traditional build? Also, do yo feel there is anyway to get burn in some form to become at least tier 1.5?

[Wallace]

Yes, baubles and fetch-lands seem like a solid gameplan. How much more competitive, is your build over the more traditional build? Also, do yo feel there is anyway to get burn in some form to become at least tier 1.5?

I played a diff. version of burn in 3 out of the last 4 legacy events I played in. I Lost a total of 6 games between the 3 events. 4 of the games were lost by drawing to much land, the other two I just lost. 3 of the games could have been won on my last draw, I drew a land. A 11-6 match record at 3 major events with any deck, is not to bad. I am hoping the baubles fix the problem I have been having with drawing to much land.

[Iranon]

Actually, I don't run Incinerate. It's less objectionable than most straight burn spells that aren't bolts, but I prefer a synergistic package (several options, depending on the metagame to abuse) to bolt-wannabes.

[DragoFireheart]

Haven't we already discussed that running baubles is some what slow plan for burn decks? Is there some new testing that shows baubles working well?

Also I would never run Street Wraiths as it is a good way to kill yourself.

[LordEvilTeaCup]

I think Fork is way underrated. It has the potential to be a 2 for 4, and at worst its usually a 2 for 3. God knows how many times I used to just to make my Fireblast go through by forking their FoW. There have been almost no games where it hurt me being a topdeck. Very consistently its a solid addition to my deck. I take it over Chain of plasma or rift any day. The only build I wouldn't run it in is Bauble Burn.

Meh, I have been having these strange ideas like putting Spark Elementals in my deck. I know they suck, and make your opponent's once dead removal useful but the faint possibility of it being a 3 for 1 is seducing me. Someone smack sense into me!

[outsideangel]

Haven't we already discussed that running baubles is some what slow plan for burn decks? Is there some new testing that shows baubles working well?

Also I would never run Street Wraiths as it is a good way to kill yourself.

If you're playing Burn, you worry about the other guy's life total a whole lot more than you worry about your own. Reasons not to run Street Wraith include increased difficulty in mulliganing. Reasons not to run Street Wraith do not include taking two damage to make your deck more efficient.

Similiarly, Chain of Plasma isn't really poor in Burn because your opponent could occasionally send it back to you (though this is a mark against it) but because the only times it's going to be anything other than a 3-for-2 are when your opponent wants it to be, and 3-for-2's are subpar in Burn.

Re: Spark Elemental- He's actually not been bad to me. Your opponent will rarely have a blocker, and will rarely hold mana open for creature removal (they want to be swinging every turn to race you, and using all their mana to do the same) so he's usually a 3-for-1.

[LordEvilTeaCup]

Re: Spark Elemental- He's actually not been bad to me. Your opponent will rarely have a blocker, and will rarely hold mana open for creature removal (they want to be swinging every turn to race you, and using all their mana to do the same) so he's usually a 3-for-1.

That was what I was thinking. What slot would you suggest he would replace? If he is usually a 3-for-1, why is he not a staple? I think if he is, then he should find a place for sure. If it is even 70% of the time in which he is a 3 for 1, than I think that is plenty. We can't afford to waste as much on effort with consistancy with this new meta.

[bigbear102]

Doesn't Chain of Plasma kind of throw away half the reason you're playing Burn, and not Sligh? One of the deck's strengths is the virtual card advantage is generates by making all their board control elements dead. If a deck that's capable of applying pressure can turn those into damage, it might not end well for you.

As Matt says, this may be irrelevant in match-ups you're all ready going to win; but that should mean the opposite conclusion. If its dangerous in the match-ups that are in the air(those that can race you), and it's ok in match-ups where you should win anyway(control), what good does it really do you?

Although Guerrilla Tactics + Chain is temptingly funny.

Your logic works most of the time in Magic, but burn is its own entity. Chain of Plasma is good against EVERYTHING, and better against the decks that will have a better game against you. I may be wrong now that Tarmogoyf is in the format, but other than goblins, burn races every aggro deck out there. It doesn't really hurt you in any match.

I'm still not convinced about the flame rifts. Maybe some solid testing will prove otherwise. For now though I use Chain of Plasma in place of the Flame Rifts.

You also must remember that my comments were in response to this post, meaning that you are trading a sorcery speed card that is damage parity with an instant speed card that is possibly parity, and can give you the chance to win on damage with it. Please understand where arguments come from BEFORE you bash them.

I personally don't play Chain of Plasma because I like Flame Rift better, and don't play burn because it isn't consistent enough.

[largebrandon]

Why not maindeck Pyrostatic Pillar? It works like a dream against everything. It also helps against combo.

[Soto]

They play one beater and can race you, since most of your spells are < 3CC

[Wallace]

Why not maindeck Pyrostatic Pillar? It works like a dream against everything. It also helps against combo.

I found out the hard way that Main deck Pillar hurts more than it helps. I have lost 3 games to my own Pillar.

[DragoFireheart]

I personally don't play Chain of Plasma because I like Flame Rift better, and don't play burn because it isn't consistent enough.

This is probably the #1 reason why burn isn't doing so well as of recent. It simply can be hated out too easily.

Has anyone thought about using Keldon Marauders? 2 for a 3/3 beater that always deals 2 damage with the possiblity to do one of the following:

1. Chump block a Goyf.

2. Deal a total of 5 damage.

3. Have another creature that will die on it's own to hinder Ichorid.

[Iranon]

Re Marauder and Spark Elemental:

I've mentioned this a few pages ago in a long-ish post...

You can turn pseudo-Sligh and make good use of the one-hit wonders.

Spark Elemental, Ball Lightning, Keldon Marauders, supported by Cave-In (all your creatures can swing through it).

[Wallace]

Re Marauder and Spark Elemental:

I've mentioned this a few pages ago in a long-ish post...

You can turn pseudo-Sligh and make good use of the one-hit wonders.

Spark Elemental, Ball Lightning, Keldon Marauders, supported by Cave-In (all your creatures can swing through it).

The problem with Marauders and Spark Elemental is that they can, 1) Be Blocked 2) Be Burned/Sword's. Burn should be going right to the Dome, creatures hinder this objective. The only creaturesthat belong in a Burn deck are Mogg Fanatic and maybe Street Wraith.