[Deck] Solidarity (Reset High Tide)

[honz]

Has anyone tried out the green splash. I have seen it mentioned a couple of times, but i have never actually seen anyone do any serious testing with it. I think drop of honey, qurion dryad, and krosan grip would really help some of the problematic MUs.

Thresh, being one major concern, is severly slowed by drop of honey, and grip. If it is white thresh, they would board out the swords, allowing dryad to come in and sweep up. Dryad quickly goes out of bolt range, whether or not red thresh keep their bolts in. Same for ghastly demise.

I think landstill is another place you can gain an edge by switching into dryad mode. Most the time, they will have boarded out most their creature hate, leaving them wide open to dryad beats.

I was just wondering, if anyone has persued this train of thought at all.

[Atwa]

That plan reminds me of a dutch guy who played a MUC deck in Vintage.

After game 1 (when having a bad matchup), the guy sided in:
- 4 Oath of Druids
- 4 Forbidden Orchard
- 1 Akroma
- 1 Spirit of the Night
- 1 Gaea's Blessing
- 2 Tropical Island

It won him the tournament.

I do think this can work, especially when every deck in Legacy which plays creature removal will side it out for all sorts of combohate. The only thing you have to think of: will the hate also stop your transformational sideboard?

Cards like Trinisphere, Chalice and Sphere of Resistence still hurt you. Which cards do you want to side out? I am thinking that Reset will be the first to go (creatures aren't cast that easy in your opponents turn), but which other cards do you suggest cutting?

[Pinder]

The only thing you have to think of: will the hate also stop your transformational sideboard?

Maybe, but a better question would be 'Isn't Oath of Druids banned in Legacy'?

[Wallace]

Maybe, but a better question would be 'Isn't Oath of Druids banned in Legacy'?

Lets see...

Legacy Banned List:

Amulet of Quoz
Ancestral Recall
Balance
Bazaar of Baghdad
Black Lotus
Black Vise
Bronze Tablet
Channel
Chaos Orb
Contract from Below
Darkpact
Demonic Attorney
Demonic Consultation
Demonic Tutor
Dream Halls
Earthcraft
Entomb
Falling Star
Fastbond
Flash
Frantic Search
Goblin Recruiter
Grim Monolith
Gush
Hermit Druid
Illusionary Mask
Imperial Seal
Jeweled Bird
Land Tax
Library of Alexandria
Mana Crypt
Mana Drain
Mana Vault
Memory Jar
Metalworker
Mind Twist
Mind's Desire
Mishra's Workshop
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Necropotence
Oath of Druids
Rebirth
Shahrazad
Skullclamp
Sol Ring
Strip Mine
Tempest Efreet
Time Spiral
Time Walk
Timetwister
Timmerian Fiends
Tinker
Tolarian Academ
Vampiric Tutor
Wheel of Fortune
Windfall
Worldgorger Dragon
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Yawgmoth's Will

yup it is...

[Sanguine Voyeur]

That plan reminds me of a dutch guy who played a MUC deck in Vintage.

Reading comprehension FTW?

[honz]

The thing is, a normal SB looks something like:
6-8 utility (rebuild, turn, meditate, pact, stroke, freeze...etc)
X Spell snare
X Hydroblast
X Twincast

With the green splash, you loose twincast, snares, hydroblasts, and wipe away. Of those cards you loose, only snare is decent against stax/thresh (chalice at 1, balance). You do gain grips, which are useful. You could probly make room for snares, if you really wanted them...

I think the first thing to board out, are the wishes (unless playing against stax). You could probly board out twincasts / remands, depending on the MU. Brain freezes are another likely contender. As long as you keep your cantrips, i think you should be alright.

[Pinder]

Ah, maybe when he said 'I think this will work', he was talking about Dryad in Legacy, not Oath. I suppose Oath was just an example.

Back on topic, I actually splashed green for Bound/Determined in the wishboard once at my local, as well as Dryad. I beat the crap out of a friend who had sided out all of his removal by dropping Dryad on turn 2. It hit the table almost as hard as his jaw. I proceeded to mini-combo at the end of his next turn and beat down with an unstoppable 7/7 for the win.

[Tacosnape]

Back on topic, I actually splashed green for Bound/Determined in the wishboard once at my local, as well as Dryad. I beat the crap out of a friend who had sided out all of his removal by dropping Dryad on turn 2. It hit the table almost as hard as his jaw. I proceeded to mini-combo at the end of his next turn and beat down with an unstoppable 7/7 for the win.

I originally loved this idea as well, until I quickly realized everything turned into a guessing game on game three as to whether or not they brought removal back in and whether or not you should leave your Dryads in. Nonetheless, the Dryad trick is ridiculously awesome when it works.

With the green splash, you loose twincast, snares, hydroblasts, and wipe away. Of those cards you loose, only snare is decent against stax/thresh (chalice at 1, balance). You do gain grips, which are useful. You could probly make room for snares, if you really wanted them...

You don't really lose -all- of these. More realistically you just reduce your slots for it. I kept Hydroblast to make sure I don't slide in my good matchups (Goblins is better than ever since it doesn't pack Solidarity hate, and you'll need them to race Goyf Sligh.) Bound//Determined was great when everyone played Chalice, but not so much now. Counterbalance is the new Chalice, and considering it's almost impossible to get one to resolve under a Counterbalance, this can be a problem.

[Jade]

Did you guys ever test careful consideration?

I thought it could be quite nice as a 4th MD meditate, as it draws you 4 cards for 4 and midcombo you can likely discard 3 land cards for it. Did the card ever come up?

I definately gonna test it as 1 or 2-of.

[honz]

I quickly realized everything turned into a guessing game on game three as to whether or not they brought removal back in and whether or not you should leave your Dryads in.

I have noticed this as well. I think the best way to look at things is (if they saw the dryad) they are forced to bring in some creature hate. Since your counterwall is probly not big enough to protect your dryads, your best option is to take them back out. That way, you maximize their dead cards. I see no reason to actually keep the dryads in game 3; for all your opponenet knows, you had the dryads MD the whole time.

The thought is to have a board of 4 drop of honey, 4 dryads; this leaves almost no extra room. Drop of honey can severly slow some of your problematic MUs (confidant, thresh, most aggro-control / aggro). You might also try wee dragonauts, with a red splash, but red doesnt give you much other than dragonauts. Any thoughts on bound/determined in the board?

Careful considertaion is just a bad version of fact or fiction. And do we run fact or fiction? I would play thirst over careful consideration as well.

[Bahamuth]

I've been testing the Thresh matchup today quite a lot. I found myself having too few land quite often. Has anyone else had this experience? Would it maybe be an idea to add another land?

Also, how does everyone sideboard vs. Thresh?

[entity]

Well, red would also give Urza's Rage as an alternate win condition(rage plus twincast - red tide). Might be worth a try...but then again, i really dislike making a deck vulnerable to wasteland.

[Jade]

Careful considertaion is just a bad version of fact or fiction. And do we run fact or fiction? I would play thirst over careful consideration as well.

I would run Careful consideration over fact as you'll get 4 cards instead of probably 3 and midgame the discard should not hurt that much. Allthough I think you're right with thirst > consideration. I'll probably go with + 1 twincast, going down to 2 cunning wish.

[Jak]

I just bought Solidarity, so obviously I need help playing it. I playtested it in the past and loved to play with it. Sadly, Resets cost $40 bucks each. I got the deck cheap with most of it Japanese (Fetches, Wishes, Twincasts, etc.). So props to me. Here is the build I plan on using.

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
12 Island

4 Brainstorm
2 Opt
2 Peek
4 Impulse
3 Meditate
2 Flash of Insight
3 Cunning Wish

4 High Tide
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
2 Brainfreeze

4 Force of Will
4 Remand
1 Twincast

SB
1 Brainfreeze
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Wipe Away
1 Rebuild
1 Echoing Truth
3 Hydroblast
1 Twincast
4 Spell Snare

Now, my meta is going crazy with aggro-control. I want and think I need to play the 4 Twincasts. I can not, however, because Spell Snare deserves the spot. Counters a lot of scary crap. This is probably not the best meta to go around playing this deck, but I like a challenge and can probably beat the random crap like burn or aggro at my weekly tourneys.

Question:
What is the usualy boarding strategy for Thresh and Counterslivers?

[Volt]

Question:
What is the usualy boarding strategy for Thresh and Counterslivers?

Doesn't matter. Unless you get incredibly busted hands, you just lose.

Btw, Nick is a really good Solidarity player. I've seen him splash green for Quirion Dryads out of the board, and white for Porphyry Nodes. You could talk to him for further tips.

[Jak]

Doesn't matter. Unless you get incredibly busted hands, you just lose.

Btw, Nick is a really good Solidarity player. You could talk to him.

Pray for the busted.

I guess there is really no hope. Does he have a new account or will it be Fridays?

Edit- I just read the last part. Yeah, I have seen the splash for Bound/Deterined and Dryad. I would try that, but I haven't got the Trops. I may splash white and throw in 2 plains for 4 chants or abeyances or something. Nodes looks promising. Killing Mage and the rest of thresh. Maybe Nodes and Abeyance SB?

[Nihil Credo]

Doesn't matter. Unless you get incredibly busted hands, you just lose.

That's an overestimation. I'd say those matchups are about 2/3 in favour of the blue aggro-control decks, if we consider the current builds with maindeck Counterbalance; a bit better if they don't have that damned enchantment (thankfully no-one maindecks Meddling Mage anymore). You're still putting up quite a fight, and I'm sure every experienced player on this thread has beaten his fair share of Threshold decks.

For comparison, if I were to pilot Solidarity in a tournament, I'd fear a Red Death or Macey Rock style deck more than Threshold. Lots of discard backed up by quick fatties isn't fun at all.

[Volt]

That's an overestimation. I'd say those matchups are about 2/3 in favour of the blue aggro-control decks, if we consider the current builds with maindeck Counterbalance; a bit better if they don't have that damned enchantment (thankfully no-one maindecks Meddling Mage anymore). You're still putting up quite a fight, and I'm sure every experienced player on this thread has beaten his fair share of Threshold decks.

For comparison, if I were to pilot Solidarity in a tournament, I'd fear a Red Death or Macey Rock style deck more than Threshold. Lots of discard backed up by quick fatties isn't fun at all.

Yeah, I probably overstated a bit. I'd say it's about 3-1 in favor of CounterTop aggro-control.

[honz]

If you are in a thresh infested meta, the best advice would be play a different deck. If you still want to play solidarity, then you really need a splash. Green gives alot. Grips > counterbalance, and if you manage to resolve a determined (unlikely), you are golden. Dryads and drop of honey from the board probly swing things your way.

White gives chants and abeyance. Proph nodes as well. I would say green is better, if only because of grip and bound/determined.

Drop of honey has not been working out for me, at all. It is just too slow, only activating during my upkeep. All thresh needs to do is play 1 creature a turn, for 4 turns, while it bashes with a goyf. Or just let the board clear, and drop die, then resume the face bashing. Faster aggro is just too fast. Suicide black, gobbos, sligh, RG beats, WW can all easily play 1 creature a turn, and bash with numerous beats.

[Jak]

How would one fit Quirion Dryad, Bound/Determined, Krosan Grip, and Drop of Honey in. I am interested in the green splash.