[Deck] Goyf Sligh

[black_lotus]

Hi guy's,

Long time Legacy veteran, new to this forum.

I'm contemplating playing this archetype at a upcoming tournament that is heavily populated by Threshold, some Landstill, Goblins, and a few randoms.

I came up with two builds, and was seeking any thoughts on the builds:


Version 1 (R/g):

Lands

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
1 Forest
5 Mountain

Creatures

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape

Spells

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
3 Fireblast
3 Price of Progress
2 Seal of Fire
2 Tarfire

Sideboard:

1 Price if Progress
3 Krosan Grip
3 Pithing Needle
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Pyroclasm
4 Pyrostatic Pillar

The only thin I'm not sure about in this build is the Seal/Tarfire. On one hand, the relevance it has to Goyf has come up during testing within our team's gauntlet, yet, cutting both two of's for 4 Magma Jet also seems nice...




Version 1 (R/g/b):

Lands

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
2 Badlands
1 Forest
3 Mountain

Creatures

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kird Ape
4 Dark Confidant

Spells

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Fireblast
2 Seal of Fire
2 Tarfire

Sideboard:

3 Krosan Grip
4 Price of Progress
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Pyroclasm
4 Thoughtseize

I love Dark Confidant in this deck...when he sticks or resolves, which is rare. I just cant decide if it is worth Bob, while altering other aspects of the deck.

[Wallace]

@ black lotus

First off, Welcome to the source!

I play this deck a lot and have top 8ed with it twich in the last month. I really like Price of Progress in the Main Board. Other than that either build is fine. I would drop the one forest for another mountain. Wasteland is nbd and you will be pissed when you draw that forest and want to fireblast. The black build is good but less consistant, I would play the str8 R/G version. Check the list I just posted, I have been doing really well with it.

[black_lotus]

@ black lotus

First off, Welcome to the source!

Thanks.

I would drop the one forest for another mountain. Wasteland is nbd and you will be pissed when you draw that forest and want to fireblast.

I think I may keep the forest only because the Thresh player's in my meta all run waste. That being said, in testing there was times I needed to Fireblast for the win, and could not, or I need multiple red sources to cast multi 1cc burn for the win and couldn't.

The black build is good but less consistant, I would play the str8 R/G version. Check the list I just posted, I have been doing really well with it.

My question regarding your list is Needle Drop. Have you or anyone else tested this in tournament play? It just seems so bad to me (IMO), yet also makes sense....

[Wallace]

My question regarding your list is Needle Drop. Have you or anyone else tested this in tournament play? It just seems so bad to me (IMO), yet also makes sense....

Just read back a few pages and you will see mixed thoughts on Needle drop. I really don't think you need the forest, wasteland rarely if ever hurts this deck. You just sac the Taiga in response to Wasteland (Fireblast or Lava Dart if you are running it), the one forest just seems out of place. Look at the deck, you have 8 cards in the Main board that require a forest, one of them is Kird Ape who you can still cast without a forest. This deck needs sources to function, if you are running 8 fetch lands then haveing a forst when you need it shouldn't be a problem.

[black_lotus]

Just read back a few pages and you will see mixed thoughts on Needle drop. I really don't think you need the forest, wasteland rarely if ever hurts this deck. You just sac the Taiga in response to Wasteland (Fireblast or Lava Dart if you are running it), the one forest just seems out of place. Look at the deck, you have 8 cards in the Main board that require a forest, one of them is Kird Ape who you can still cast without a forest. This deck needs sources to function, if you are running 8 fetch lands then haveing a forst when you need it shouldn't be a problem.

Hmm, ya Needle Drop is quite a toss up.

Your arguments regarding the Forest seem valid, I will try an additional Mountain.

[lukatron2]

Hmm, ya Needle Drop is quite a toss up.

Your arguments regarding the Forest seem valid, I will try an additional Mountain.

I can see what Sacearuse is saying about the lone forest but how has it been for you? I mean personally I like having a lone forest just in case Wasteland is around or if they have crucible + waste like in Landstill you want to be able to cast your goyfs. The forest is like insurance to me.

I liked both of your lists and when I was reading the first one I was thinking "the seal of fire and tarfire should be magma jets"...but you were one step ahead and mentioned it right after you posted your list.

I took 2nd place in a local tournament yesterday and Magma Jet saved me a number of times. When I'm in topdeck mode I don't want to be drawing land. There was one game last night where I was playing against Rifter and my opponent was starting to stabilize but I scryed away two lands and the next two cards I drew won me the game.
3rd round I was playing against Trainwreck and I had them at a low amount of life when the guy casts haunting echoes removing everything exept taigas, mountains, wooded foothills, lava dart, magma jet, and Quirion dryad. So we sat there in topdeck mode until he got out a Helldozer. He was at 5 life while I was at 17 on a 3 turn clock. I got a magma jet, got him down to 3, scryed my way into another magma jet (avoiding land), and then scryed my way into a lava dart which won me the game and sealed 2nd place for me. I seriously think the card is just too amazing not to run...anyway, thats just my 2 cents...Both builds look pretty solid..I would go with the R/G cause it lets you run MD Price of Progress but bob also looks hot. One thing is that the R/G list looks a bit faster...Good luck

[Shriekmaw]

Hmm, ya Needle Drop is quite a toss up.

Your arguments regarding the Forest seem valid, I will try an additional Mountain.

I can see the argument of running another mountain over a forest, but if your metagame has a lot of wastelands then running 1 basic forest is the correct decision.

I think running seal of fire or tarfire is vastly superior than needle drop in the builds. A lot of games it comes down to those last few points of damage, so running the best quality burn spells becomes very important.

Remember, the forest not only lets you cast Tarmogoyf, but also makes your Kird Ape a 2/3 which is very important in a lot of matchups.

[lukatron2]

I think running seal of fire or tarfire is vastly superior than needle drop in the builds. A lot of games it comes down to those last few points of damage, so running the best quality burn spells becomes very important.

Thats why I think that Magma Jet is so important.

[Wallace]

I just made top 8 in Syracuse w/ my List on the last page. I really liked the Needle Drop as a two of. I ran Kird ape with some good results and Grim lavamancer was MVP.

[zander1]

Hie guys!
I thought about running this deck too, but I have a question: Why do you run Grim Lavamancer when you play tarmogoyf in this deck?

[Volt]

Hie guys!
I thought about running this deck too, but I have a question: Why do you run Grim Lavamancer when you play tarmogoyf in this deck?

Already asked and answered.

[Peter_Rotten]

I watched CAngel prove to me why Needle Drop sucks. His opponent playing TES casts a turn one Dark Confidant and then Chants him on his upkeep. CAngel's only 1cc instant burn in hand was Needle Drop. That Confidant bought that TES player an extra draw and enabled him to set up an IGGY loop a turn before his death.

Conditional burn for-the-loss. Price of Progress breaks this rule since it scales so ridiculously.

[Watcher487]

I watched CAngel prove to me why Needle Drop sucks. His opponent playing TES casts a turn one Dark Confidant and then Chants him on his upkeep. CAngel's only 1cc instant burn in hand was Needle Drop. That Confidant bought that TES player an extra draw and enabled him to set up an IGGY loop a turn before his death.

Conditional burn for-the-loss. Price of Progress breaks this rule since it scales so ridiculously.

Actually Matt he had a Fanatic in his hand.... And a Dart in the yard....

[Sims]

Indeed, I started to scrub pretty bad in that game. I've got a list of reasonable excuses a mile long, but meh, fuck it.

In any case, in playing the deck I felt there were aspects of Watcher's deck that I didn't necessarily care for including Needle Drop and Dryad, but I believe these are playstyle concerns mostly. I play, usually, a bit more aggressive than Shane does and don't like the aforementioned cards because of it. I would have greatly preferred Magma Jet or even Incinerate or Lava Spike in place of that Needle Drop.

Also, Shane. He is talking about chant on my second turn. That was one I couldn't respond to at the time, iirc.

[Wallace]

How many drops are were/are you running? Can I see your list?

[Shriekmaw]

Indeed, I started to scrub pretty bad in that game. I've got a list of reasonable excuses a mile long, but meh, fuck it.

In any case, in playing the deck I felt there were aspects of Watcher's deck that I didn't necessarily care for including Needle Drop and Dryad, but I believe these are playstyle concerns mostly. I play, usually, a bit more aggressive than Shane does and don't like the aforementioned cards because of it. I would have greatly preferred Magma Jet or even Incinerate or Lava Spike in place of that Needle Drop.

Also, Shane. He is talking about chant on my second turn. That was one I couldn't respond to at the time, iirc.

I've been trying to tell a lot of people that want to play Goyf Slight that needle drop is just horrible. The main problem with Drayd is that he Never stays alive very long. I like the creature list of 16 (Goyf, Lavamancer, Fanatic, Kird Ape) and the rest of the deck should be filled with burn cards.

I don't believe this deck needs any card draw whatsoever, it needs to reduce your opponent to zero life as quickly as humanly possible.

[Sims]

The list that was being run was Watchers, for reference it was:

Lands (18)//
5 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire

Creatures (20)//
4 Kird Ape
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Keldon Marauder
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Tarmogoyf

Burn (22)//
4 Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Dart
4 Rift Bolt
4 Price of Progress
2 Needle Drop

The Board (15, janked cause we didn't have the cards we needed)//
4 Pyroclasm
4 Krosan Grip
2 Earthquake
2 Blood Moon
3 Sulfuric Vortex

Brief summary of tournament:

Round 1- Pat with AngelStax (top 8 deck, dunno his source name).
This one was over in 10 minutes. Game 1 Turn 1 chalice for 1, turn 3 chalice for 2. Game 2 an early Exalted Angel + chalice for 1 while I was stuck on two lands with Grip in hand. (0-1, 0-2)

Round 2- (I don't remember your real name, sorry) Insertnamehere I believe with Elves of some form.
This was also over relatively fast. Game 1- Play beats and focus burn at blockers. Thorn was mildly annoying but not bad. Game 2- Bring in a few pyroclasms and Earthquakes from the board for PoPs. Burn away blockers while swinging in with beats, resolve earthquake to finish sweeping the board and pound for the victory. (1-1, 2-2)

Round 3- Bre from Albany of Gaypr0n and B is for BigJob fame, 43lands.
Game 1- Price of Progress = win.
Game 2- I fail to draw price and can't overcome Pyrostatic Pillar
Game 3- Blood Moon + double PoP. (2-1, 4-3)

Round 4- James with UW Landstill (Top 4 deck)
Game 1- This game was pretty straight forward, I had no way of avoiding Wrath on a few threats, he had some key counters due to standstill, finally finishingme off were a 2 back to back cycled decrees for a lot.
Game 2- Having played in albany vs. UW Still, I know there had to be CoP or Pulse of the Fields in the board somewhere, so i bring in clasm for tokens and Sulfuric Vortex. I find neither and suffer to lack of gas + Pulse -> more soldiers. (2-2, 4-5)

Round 5- Matt P (Peter_Rotten) with the Goyf Mirror.
Game 1- As I posted in the tournament thread. I got 3 goyfs to his 1, some burn, some critter beats, he mocked my Marauder. I win.
Game 2- Some burn kills a turn 2 3/4, but another goyf follows on the next turn with either kird or marauder as a friend soon after and takes it home. (3-2, 6-5)

Round 6- Dan G. (Gaagooch) with TES
Game 1- I lay into him with some beats for a few turns, he begins to go off and I think makes a mistake and grabs Bargain, lowering his life total to 6 or 7 but he fizzles. I finish him off.
Game 2- I bring in the clasms figuring he may have to go ETW on me, but he goes off rather quickly with tendrils and I can't stop it.
Game 3- This was for a slot in the top8, so it was important. Bluntly stated I felt we both played well, though we both made mistakes. A fuck up early cleared my board as I chained a confidant when i should have fanatic'd it, allowing him to chain it at my kird. Mistake 1 hurts a bit as his mistake was a bit worse, he forgot to swing with confidant. That mattered as when he went to combo off he could have cast tendrils for the win if Confidant got in, so he chains off to ETW for 22 tokens. He passed turn and left me to my draw, making my hand Chain, Rift Bolt, Bolt, Needle Drop with 3 lands and a dart in my yard, a fanatic and a dryad on the table. I am at 19, he is at 11. I ponder over this knowing this is the top 8 on the line and I fucked up hard. With Rotten behind me heckling me and complaining that he couldn't watch my misplay anymore. I began my play, throwing a burn spell at his head and then needle dropping to draw a land, realized I fucked up, and conceded the match.

He went on to win the tournament and I left with a final standing of 3-3 matches, 6-7 in games, and one helluva fun experience for my first time in a tournament since Kadis SECOND DLD.

I should have swung with the fanatic. If he blocked, that's only 21 tokens now and I can throw the fanatic at him (or another goblin). If I threw it at him I could drop him back to 9 with needle drop and draw (the draw was a stomping ground). This would allow me to play land, suspend the rift bolt, dart a critter (20 goblins), and then chain a critter (19 critters). At this point I'd have a bolt in hand, a suspended rift bolt for the upkeep, and he couldn't kill me in one swing without getting past my dryad. The top card after I conceded was revealed to be a bolt. 9 damage for his 9 life. Well, hindsight is 20-20, yes?

All in all, I enjoyed the way the deck performed, but I seriously felt that Needle Drop and Dryad were lacking horribly. I played very aggresively all day and felt that the Dryad was useless pretty much everytime I drew it, and Needle drop only worked for me once in the entire tournament. It mostly became sideboard slot fodder later in the tournament.

[Peter_Rotten]

How did those Keldon Marauders treat you? JP and I always talk about how they're almost Legacy playable. Did you find them blocked too often? Was he able to often do what we've called "his job" (doing 5 damage)?

Dryad is now on my "iffy" card list. Sometimes he just gets huge and, as we've all discussed to death, he is a horrible late game top deck. If he goes, then Dart can go and maybe Rift Bolt can hit the main. Or maybe some sort of 3/3 split of Incinerate and Rift Bolt.

Either way, I doubt I'll be playing Goyf Sligh again in Mass. Mass's new motto is "Give me Chalice or give me death." They're even printing it on the license plates along with a picture of kids playing Trinispheres in Angel Stax.

[Sims]

The only match in which Marauders didn't do their full 5 was with you becuase you actually had the removal for them. All of my other matches they either did the full 5 damage or I used them to block manlands/critters coming in on the attack.
The way I see it, for the cost of , one of 4 things happens:

A) You lava axe your opponent, granted it's over 3 turns.
B) Your opponent burns a removal spell that now cannot be used on your subsequent Goyfs, they still take a shock.
C) Your opponent swings in with a Goyf (or orther creature) and you are able to chump it off and put dmg onto said Goyf for subsequent burning. Your opponent still get shocked.
D) He goes farming, and you essentially lava dart your opponent while they give you a healing salve.

He would be infinitely better if he had Fading instead of Vanishing, but that is beside the point. I never played him in the tournament and had him feel subpar, unlike the Dryad which I wished was Lavamancer or even Wildmongrel all day long.

[Peter_Rotten]

D) He goes farming, and you essentially lava dart your opponent while they give you a healing salve.

He still Shocks the opponent here. It's a "Leaves play" trigger, not a "hit the yard" one.

Maybe I'll reconsider KM. I sorta hate that he'll never do more than 5 dmg though.