[Deck] Ichorid

[Bane of the Living]

Ok heres a bunch of things..

Congrats with your wins e1567. The deck can be very complex, Ill give you that. I replied to your report in that thread.

Heres what you need to remember. When you want to add a "gimmick" to the deck like Magus of the Disk, Evoke Dude, ect..
Ask yourself Would this really be better than Chain of Vapor??

If the answer is "No I just wanna be cool" then dont play it. Id gone down to 3 Chains till I realized it was just one of the best cards you could board in most circumstances. I dropped Pithing Needle from my list. Chain of Vapor is usually a fine answer to Tormods Crypt. The turn you want to combo off you bounce it, or just combine it with Cabal Therapy. You do play 8 of them afterall.

Ive cut Gamble from my list simply because luck is already too much of a factor in your gameplay. Ive cut it for Street Wraith. Its always been amazing enough to put in the deck but Id always figured there were better cards to play in Legacy since we have mana and more powerfull cards, as opposed to Vintage who has Bazaar and foresakes mana.
But then I realized I was playing jank like Gamble that needs one of 8 other cards in the deck to be cast. So back in he goes.

He's free dredging. Period. Its not counterable and makes the discard phase much more glorious. Thresh is growing in popularity and cycling yourself a dredge is becoming the difference between dying to Goyfs and winning around counterspells. Feeding Ichorids just cant be overlooked. It lets you win through Ichy beats much more reliably.

[blitz]

Ok heres a bunch of things..

Congrats with your wins e1567. The deck can be very complex, Ill give you that. I replied to your report in that thread.

Heres what you need to remember. When you want to add a "gimmick" to the deck like Magus of the Disk, Evoke Dude, ect..
Ask yourself Would this really be better than Chain of Vapor??

If the answer is "No I just wanna be cool" then dont play it. Id gone down to 3 Chains till I realized it was just one of the best cards you could board in most circumstances. I dropped Pithing Needle from my list. Chain of Vapor is usually a fine answer to Tormods Crypt. The turn you want to combo off you bounce it, or just combine it with Cabal Therapy. You do play 8 of them afterall.

Ive cut Gamble from my list simply because luck is already too much of a factor in your gameplay. Ive cut it for Street Wraith. Its always been amazing enough to put in the deck but Id always figured there were better cards to play in Legacy since we have mana and more powerfull cards, as opposed to Vintage who has Bazaar and foresakes mana.
But then I realized I was playing jank like Gamble that needs one of 8 other cards in the deck to be cast. So back in he goes.

He's free dredging. Period. Its not counterable and makes the discard phase much more glorious. Thresh is growing in popularity and cycling yourself a dredge is becoming the difference between dying to Goyfs and winning around counterspells. Feeding Ichorids just cant be overlooked. It lets you win through Ichy beats much more reliably.

I've actually been skewing the goyf slots and removed gamble to include 4 street wraiths. Does this strike you as a good move? 4 more ways to get a dredge in the deck and 4 more chances to put ichorid back on the board is the way I see it...

[Bovinious]

Street Wraith seems alright but ive got to wonder why are you worrying about the Thresh matchup, we already pretty much dominate. I think I'd still rather have Gamble just to increase the effective number of each SB card you run. And also how are you fitting in 4 Wraiths? If you cut 2 Gamble thats 2 slots but I dont see what else you could safely cut.

[e1567]

Good job picking up the playskill mid tourny =0

But I have to say this is the most complicated deck Ive ever played. Im still learning "better plays" with it all the time. Fighting hate becomes a different monster all together. Sideboarding wrong is very easy. Im hoping to write an extensive primer on the deck soon along with strategy and matchup analysis.

I will say this as an end note. Cabal Therapy is very significant in your games. Its the mvp of the deck and your skills with it can become dependant on your games outcomes all the time.

Thank you Bane, like i said I really like this deck. Im not sure I would call this the most complicated deck to play with, I tried to play solidtary and that deck is a bitch to play. But I will 100% agree that side boarding is a mother in this deck. That is why I like the idea of gamble but im not so sure that it is really that good against lotv, cuz if you pitch your answer that was a dead and meaningless play. In my short experience of competitive play with this deck I do feel chain of vapor is mvp in the side, I just wish I could have 4 more. But of course if we see leyline we do generally lose game 2 unless of course they get unlucky/mull and see no duress or thoughtsieze.

I might try the SW but im not so sure about taking the DA that does slow us down and with Friggin goyf we need as much speed as we can get.

I still want to try gamble though as a 2 of.

Im hoping to write an extensive primer on the deck soon along with strategy and matchup analysis.

And I will be looking forward to criticizing and make fun of you as much as possible

[soundwave123]

You have a valid point Bane. Thanks for the help. Just so you guys know I placed 1st with the deck at my local store. Played against alot of random stuff and even a deck packing X4 trinisphere X4 Ghostly Prison X4 Propiganda maindeck! Cabal Therapy for the win!

[Ataxrxes]

Do you guys who play this deck at tournaments use the zombie token cards? Because I like to use lots of them. My question is where do you keep them so they are readily accessible yet you don't have a big stack of token cards sitting on the table giving your opponent information you don't want him to have yet? I would prefer to keep them in my deck box but 15 sb cards plus 12+ zombie tokens make a tight fit in there.

[klaus]

Do you guys who play this deck at tournaments use the zombie token cards? Because I like to use lots of them. My question is where do you keep them so they are readily accessible yet you don't have a big stack of token cards sitting on the table giving your opponent information you don't want him to have yet? I would prefer to keep them in my deck box but 15 sb cards plus 12+ zombie tokens make a tight fit in there.

The most convenient way to use Zombie tokens is using a singleton token card and putting a dye on top that indicates the number of zombies in play.

best,
Klaus

[Bane of the Living]

The most convenient way to use Zombie tokens is using a singleton token card and putting a dye on top that indicates the number of zombies in play.

best,
Klaus

This is what I do too but I use two tokens, one for tapped zombies and one for untapped zombies.

[Bovinious]

I keep 16 of those 10E Zombie tokens in my box with the SB, but it is a very tight fit.

[T_B]

I use lots and lots of Scathe Zombies.

[MattH]

I use the 1994 CocaCola Monsters of the Gridiron cards, which I cannot seem to find any images of, but trust me they're cool.

For squirrels and/or saprolings, I use Number Munchers cards.

[Tacosnape]

I use the 1994 CocaCola Monsters of the Gridiron cards, which I cannot seem to find any images of, but trust me they're cool.

For squirrels and/or saprolings, I use Number Munchers cards.

Dear God, that might be the nerdiest thing I've ever seen posted. You have my respect.

I use altered 4th Edition Scathe Zombies where on each one a different zombie has a comic-style text bubble above his head saying "BRAINS!" They're a throwback from my Black-Green Zombie Infestation Madness builds.

Also, for what it's worth, I've quit liking Gamble in this deck. Altering your manabase to consistently get Red isn't worth it.

[Lukas Preuss]

Funny, in my playtesting, we have come to the conclusion that Gamble wasn't worth the effort, as well.

What did you replace it with? We started to put more emphasis on the Dread Return combo again, but I'm not sure if this is the correct call. What does your Street Wraith list look like, Bane? What did you replace the Gambles with, Taco?

[Muradin]

I am still playing Careful Study. It is never awful, but it is always useful and smoothes out the whole deck. It is easier to cast than gamble(with cephalid coliseum) and acts as carddraw, anti-hate dig postboard and discard engine. It's just never totally broken, but always at least useful. You could compare it to Vindicate. Vindicate is never the best card available in a certain situation. You can destroy lands for 2 mana, creatures for 1 mana... and the same is true for everything else. But fact is, that Vindicate can do it all. See Careful Study from this point of view and try it out. Then if you come to the conclusion that it still sucks post your results here.

[Lukas Preuss]

I tested Careful Study already, eventhough I have to admit not as thoroughly as the other cards. It's nice, because it is a much more reliable discard outlet than Gamble and lets you dredge, as well. It's mana cost is much easier to support, which is a huge bonus.

But, I was wondering if these cards make the maindeck too slow. In an unknown metagame, I would like to have an explosive game 1 (thus my reasoning to increase the Dread Return combo to 3 Dread Return, one FKZ and one Cephalid Sage maindeck again), followed by a strong sideboard (which would be 4 Chain of Vapor, 4 Leyline, 4 Chalice of the Void and 3 other cards, most likely a combination of Ray of Revelation and Ancient Grudge).

[Lemuria]

Street Wraith sometimes can be teh broken, but it makes your mulligans decisions really tough. I'm not sure if he is the right pick, and, if running only 3 is enough.

[soundwave123]

Well I've been asking opinions and thoughts from alot of people yet I never post my list... I think its almost identical to alot of peoples lists but I figure I should post it since I feel its almost done. Today I will be testing Dakmor Salvage maindeck again. I have a stax player in my meta and I've been told it will improve my matchup against it. If anyone has any questions about my testing with the build as it stands now don't hesitate to ask.

Breakthrough - 4
Bridge From Below - 4
Cabal Therapy - 4
Cephalid Coliseum - 4
Cephalid Sage - 1
City of Brass - 4
Deep Analysis - 4
Dread Return - 3
Flame-Kin Zealot - 1
Gemstone Mine - 2
Golgari Grave-Troll - 4
Golgari Thug - 3
Ichorid - 4
Lion's Eye Diamond - 4
Narcomoeba - 4
Putrid Imp - 4
Stinkweed Imp - 4
Street Wraith - 2

//Sideboard
Leyline of the Void - 4
Chalice of the Void - 4
Chain of Vapor - 4
Ray of Revelation - 2
Ancient Grudge - 1

[Bane of the Living]

Funny, in my playtesting, we have come to the conclusion that Gamble wasn't worth the effort, as well.

What did you replace it with? We started to put more emphasis on the Dread Return combo again, but I'm not sure if this is the correct call. What does your Street Wraith list look like, Bane? What did you replace the Gambles with, Taco?

Heres the new list.

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
4 LED

4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcomeoba
3 Dread Return
1 Flamekin
1 Sage

3 Thug
4 Stinkweed
4 Troll

3 PImp
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Breakthrough
3 Deep Analysis
3 Street Wraith

I like Street Wraith much more than Gamble because gamble was rarely cast off the 8 red lands in the deck and it was usually the 'win more' slot you take out for sideboard cards. The Gamble + sb cards sounds nice since it gives you more copies of your sb cards but to stick with that plan you need to dilute more of the actual engine.

Carefull Study is nice but I like that Wraith is free and a black creature more than the extra draw and discards. Dont get me wrong, its a close call, but I just need to go with the free card draw this time.

Im not sure how hot cutting a Mine was but it hasnt been a huge issue so far. Versions running Wraith are much more efficient at going to discard phase and still killing quickly.

Wraith does not make taking mulligans harder. Infact he makes each hand worth keeping more.

[soundwave123]

Wraith does not make taking mulligans harder. Infact he makes each hand worth keeping more.

I can't agree more... With him in opening hand things like City of Brass, Putrid Imp, LED, Breakthrogh, Street Wraith, Deep Analysis, Cephalid Coliseum.

I would prefer street wraith over gamble in this situation and in almost any other situation... Yes sideboarding is easier but I prefer to win asap game 1 and then mulligan for sideboard cards if I have to g2.

Which brings me to another point... I've noticed that most games I play on mws and in my meta are so slow they can't handle the combo and most never pack leyline G2. I think I might be just getting lucky. lol

[Lemuria]

Man, I'm so sick of MWS, there's almost no decent deck to playtest, and ther's only a bunch of -no need to gay-bash- who barelly know the rules. The best thing to do it's to playtest paciently with your friend, testing against the top decks in the format.


I used to run 11 land configuration, but i think 12 is safest. BTW, am I the only one to always draw 1 - 3 narcomoebas in my opening hand? , man...that sucks.