[DTB] Vial Goblins

[xsockmonkeyx]

Snuff Out, anyone? 3B, dodges Counterbalance?

Fixt.

[Shawon]

Oops. Well, it still dodges CB better than Smother et al. And Daze.

[paragon22]

There's a pretty cool spoiled card from mtgsalvation:

Mutavault
Land (R)
Tap: Add to your mana pool
: Mutavault becomes a 2/2 Creature with all creature types until end of turn. It's still a land.

Does this have a place in Goblins? Personally I don't think it does, since you'll have to give up some of your land disruption to fit this. Plus the fact that it becomes a Goblin isn't that relevant, since the only thing that really does is boost Piledriver. Also you can't tutor for it, draw it with Ringleader, or bring it into play with Lackey.

[galeng]

It doesn't because it will screw up your mana base if your'e already running 4 wasteland and 4 rishadan port.

If your'e not running those, you really should be.
If you insist on not running them, i hope I'm matched with you in a tourney for a free win.

In conclusion, no it doesn't deserve a slot.

[GreenOne]

It probably will do, but in Extended.

[TeenieBopper]

It doesn't because it will screw up your mana base if your'e already running 4 wasteland and 4 rishadan port.

If your'e not running those, you really should be.
If you insist on not running them, i hope I'm matched with you in a tourney for a free win.

In conclusion, no it doesn't deserve a slot.

I hate to bring this up again, but Rishadan Port is not an auto-include anymore. I cut the card months ago and haven't missed it at all. Here's the time line of how things happened:

Legacy is born. Solidarity, Goblins, Landstill are considered to be the top tier. Rifter, Survival, Thresh, other aggro strategies considered 1.5 or lower.

Goblins and Landstill is about 50/50. Landstill adds humility after seeing how retarded it is in Rifter. Landstill's match-up against Goblins moves to like 70/30.

Rishadan Port is added to Goblins (I'm flexing my epeen and taking credit for this, btw) to stop Landstill from reaching double white to cast humility. Goblins doesn't fear Wrath of God. It's never feared Wrath of God, not with what amounts to 10-12 Ringleaders (4 Ringleader, 4 Matron, 2-4 SGC which might as well be Ringleader). It's always, always, always been Humility. Port moves the match-up back into Goblins' favor.

Other decks develop . Goblins maintains its dominance, largely due to mana cheats like Lackey and Vial, but the other decks are devising strategies to combat it (read: Tarmagoyf is printed). Landstill also adapts, cutting Humility.

Rishadan Port is not a "winning" card. It's a "not losing" card. Goblins is a "winning" deck. It just happened to be able to support Rishadan Port because it had 8 other ways of advancing it's strategy without using mana. Nearly every deck has measures against Lackey and Vial, and they're not as reliable as they used to be. Now Goblins has to, you know, pay mana for its spells. It can't waste time twiddling its dick in an attempt to stop a card that isn't even there anymore. On top of that, there are threats that are more effective against Goblins than Humility, that cost half as much (Tarmagoyf). Basically, it comes down to this: Goblins needs to be using its mana now. On real things. Tapping an opponents land isn't one of those. Port also has the serious downside of not adding read mana, making it even more difficult to cast key spells (Goblin Warchief). Oh yeah, and nothing, nothing sucks more than looking at a rediculous starting hand with the three mana sources being colorless. Not even Vial fixes that.

TL;DR version: Rishadan Port sucks. Don't run it.

edit: Mutavault sucks too. Don't run it.

[georgjorge]

OMG if MtgSalvation is right on this one...

Frogtosser Banneret 1B
Goblin Rogue

Haste
Goblin and Rogue Spells you play cost 1 less to play.

1/1

Is that a good (if not very good) goblin for TWO MANA i see here ?

[Tacosnape]

That is a pretty good Goblin with a couple drawbacks.

1. It's black. However, if anything finally makes straight R/B Goblins decent, this might be the little guy who does it. He could take Tin-Street Hooligan's slot pretty easily in a fast Green-to-Black conversion.

2. It's not quite as good as Goblin Warchief, as it doesn't give other Goblins haste.

That said, shrinking costs of Goblins is very very good.

[xsockmonkeyx]

OMG if MtgSalvation is right on this one...

Frogtosser Banneret 1B
Goblin Rogue

Haste
Goblin and Rogue Spells you play cost 1 less to play.

1/1

Is that a good (if not very good) goblin for TWO MANA i see here ?

Wow, finally a solid 2 drop to compliment Piledriver. If nothing else he makes the curve of Rb goblins smoother. Seems like a pretty decent card IMO.

[galeng]

I hate to bring this up again, but Rishadan Port is not an auto-include anymore. I cut the card months ago and haven't missed it at all. Here's the time line of how things happened:

Legacy is born. Solidarity, Goblins, Landstill are considered to be the top tier. Rifter, Survival, Thresh, other aggro strategies considered 1.5 or lower.

Goblins and Landstill is about 50/50. Landstill adds humility after seeing how retarded it is in Rifter. Landstill's match-up against Goblins moves to like 70/30.

Rishadan Port is added to Goblins (I'm flexing my epeen and taking credit for this, btw) to stop Landstill from reaching double white to cast humility. Goblins doesn't fear Wrath of God. It's never feared Wrath of God, not with what amounts to 10-12 Ringleaders (4 Ringleader, 4 Matron, 2-4 SGC which might as well be Ringleader). It's always, always, always been Humility. Port moves the match-up back into Goblins' favor.

Other decks develop . Goblins maintains its dominance, largely due to mana cheats like Lackey and Vial, but the other decks are devising strategies to combat it (read: Tarmagoyf is printed). Landstill also adapts, cutting Humility.

Rishadan Port is not a "winning" card. It's a "not losing" card. Goblins is a "winning" deck. It just happened to be able to support Rishadan Port because it had 8 other ways of advancing it's strategy without using mana. Nearly every deck has measures against Lackey and Vial, and they're not as reliable as they used to be. Now Goblins has to, you know, pay mana for its spells. It can't waste time twiddling its dick in an attempt to stop a card that isn't even there anymore. On top of that, there are threats that are more effective against Goblins than Humility, that cost half as much (Tarmagoyf). Basically, it comes down to this: Goblins needs to be using its mana now. On real things. Tapping an opponents land isn't one of those. Port also has the serious downside of not adding read mana, making it even more difficult to cast key spells (Goblin Warchief). Oh yeah, and nothing, nothing sucks more than looking at a rediculous starting hand with the three mana sources being colorless. Not even Vial fixes that.

TL;DR version: Rishadan Port sucks. Don't run it.

edit: Mutavault sucks too. Don't run it.

Just because you will, doesnt mean everyone else is going to insanely nerf their deck. You should be able to cast warcheif with 15 red sources, which is the minimum, expecially with lackey and vial.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Just because you will, doesnt mean everyone else is going to insanely nerf their deck. You should be able to cast warcheif with 15 red sources, which is the minimum, expecially with lackey and vial.

You should, but the times you dont get RR really suck. Given that the benefit to running port is out weighed by the need for RR you might be inclined to move away from port. Ive cut my port count to 2 and I still run into situations where I miss double red. Ill probably move down to 0 soon.

[Tacosnape]

Just because you will, doesnt mean everyone else is going to insanely nerf their deck. You should be able to cast warcheif with 15 red sources, which is the minimum, expecially with lackey and vial.

Did you have a logical explanation to go with your assertion that 4 Rishadan Ports is an absolute must, or are you just following the convention?

Port has its moments. It's incredibly insane with an Aether Vial in play, and it can be useful in stalling for time when you need to hit one or two more land drops, but all the Tarmogoyfs running around made the buying time strategy far less viable. That, and multiple Rishadan Ports don't always buy you a lot in this deck, whereas they might otherwise.

I disagree with Teenie and feel that its inclusion is still worthwhile, especially given how often I can randomly keep a deck off of a color for three to five turns, but I feel that its use is diminishing. Like Mr. Monkey, I also run 2 Port, and feel that I get one often enough to get use from them, but not so often that I struggle to get multiple red.

[Stooghenstein]

I used to run goblins as my maindeck until tarmogoyf was printed then switched to threshold, but when I ran goblins I felt the 4 ports where very crucial to a lot of my wins against multi-colored decks like threshold where i would be able to deny them a color , this helps because a lot of the times it denies them a creature or two which can win games or denies them draw, counter, or pyroclasm. I will probably never cut port from my build just because in my meta where threshold was strong i really love the mana denial factor of goblins between wastelands and ports sometimes i do get RR screwed but thats the price you pay for runnin a lot of mana denial but even then thats where vial factors into play.

[StarHawk]

I was wondering if leyline of the void would be better in the side-board than tormod's crypt.

[Bryant Cook]

I was wondering if leyline of the void would be better in the side-board than tormod's crypt.

Depends on a few things, are you playing the black splash? Are you going to be able to hardcast it when drawn. Yes, it's a permanent Tormod's crypt. But are you willing to mulligan into Leyline? Tormod's seems like a better option to me personally.

[galeng]

Did you have a logical explanation to go with your assertion that 4 Rishadan Ports is an absolute must, or are you just following the convention?

After getting lackey or vial into play, port becomes ridiculous since you can stop playing spells and start preventing them from doing anything to screw you up (even more with wasteland) while you put broken uncounterable goblins into play. That is the reason for port in Vial Goblins, and not Goblin Sligh because Vial Goblins primarily has that method of winning.

Not arguing with you; just giving an explanation.

[Tacosnape]

After getting lackey or vial into play, port becomes ridiculous since you can stop playing spells and start preventing them from doing anything to screw you up (even more with wasteland) while you put broken uncounterable goblins into play. That is the reason for port in Vial Goblins, and not Goblin Sligh because Vial Goblins primarily has that method of winning.

Not arguing with you; just giving an explanation.

While I agree Port + Vial is one of the best combinations in Legacy, Port's only solid with a Lackey if they don't get a blocker or remove the Lackey first. And if this is the case and you can get a hit off with the Lackey, you stand to be in a pretty decent situation anyway.

[dlevsApiJ]

Hello,

I dont play many goblins these days, but I want to keep a good list, what do you guys think of this list:

// Lands
2 [B] Plateau
3 [UNH] Mountain
2 [B] Taiga
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
3 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
1 [PLC] Stingscourger
2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
3 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
1 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [P2] Goblin Matron
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [4E] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt

This is also how I have the list in real (ok, need 1 more Chant), I don't want the Rgb list, cause I think Ray is very good, STP is the best removal, and Chant is very good against combo (they also get manaburn most of time ). And splashing 1 color doesnt seems good enough to me, cause you need Green for the Grips/Hooligan and need B/W for the harder matchups. Also, with 3 colors, EE becomes better :D.

Maybe cutting 1 Port for 1 Mountain (I have to test it), but I dont cut more Ports.

Maybe somecards are strange chosen, but my metagame isnt like the American ;)

Mvg

[dontbiteitholmes]

Warren Weirding - 1B
Tribal Sorcery - Goblin
Target player sacrifices a creature. If a Goblin is sacrificed this way, that player puts two 1/1 black Goblin Rogue creature tokens into play, and those tokens gain haste until end of turn.

Seems pretty solid, Goblins needed an answer to Tarmogoyf and this looks like as close as it's gonna get.

[MadManMax]

Yeah, this goboedict looks really solid. You can even sac your own Matron or other token to get 2 small hasty goblins, Piledriver is smilling in the corner. Now I'm start thinking of getting a playset of Badlands( never played black goblin splash before). R/b/g or just straight R/b has a lot of good anwsers: discard for disrupt, this tutorable( with Ringleader or Matron) creature removal, sounds awesome .