[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Who care what type of deck this is? It's a deck that runs creatures and disruption. Enough, new page, new start. To steer conversation else where;

What would be a better sideboard card, Pyroclasm or Pyrokenisis?

On one hand, Pyrokenisis is instant speed and can take out larger threats. On the other hand, Pyroclasm can deal with more creatures at once and only cost two. Can the deck reliably keep another red card in hand to Pyrokenisis when necessary? Is the two damage from Pyroclasm enough to be depend on?

[Rinello]

I think that this deck is risky, so 4 Pyrokinesis will be good, even if we cannot pitch a card to it.

We care about hellbent, so I prefer Pyrokinesis now.
Clasm is good against untargettable like Mongoose, but we don't care, our big guys will kill it anyway :)

[Zork]

Honestly, Pyrokinesis' instant speed makes it relevant against some combo decks, while also usually being a board clear against goblins (plus it can remove one of the scariest goblins, Wort) and EoT removal against decks like Eva Green where you need to hope to outtempo them.

Pyroclasm, on the other hand, can sometimes kill an extra guy or two, but also kills many of your own guys unless they are equipped.

Pyrokinesis.

[moOnsteak]

I find that pitch a red card is not as easy as it looks like so I'll choose Pyroclasm. .I still need more experience to decide what red card to be pitched for Chrome Mox so additional spell like that will be nightmare for me. .
This deck has enough disruption to slow opponent down so sorcery speed won't be a problem. .

This is your last verbal warning for poor posting. Please see our site rules and shape up. - Bardo

[Tacosnape]

Honestly, Pyrokinesis' instant speed makes it relevant against some combo decks, while also usually being a board clear against goblins (plus it can remove one of the scariest goblins, Wort) and EoT removal against decks like Eva Green where you need to hope to outtempo them.

Pyroclasm, on the other hand, can sometimes kill an extra guy or two, but also kills many of your own guys unless they are equipped.

Pyrokinesis.

I am coming to this conclusion myself. Pyrokinesis is proving slightly stronger in the average metagame than Pyroclasm. It's instant speed and it costs 0 mana. There are times when I really do want Pyroclasm, such as against Goblins and against ETW-packing combo, but Pyrokinesis is still good against these matchups.

However, Pyrokinesis and Chrome Mox together cause a heavy burden on your threat count, so you have to be very careful when using these cards and figure out what to pitch when and where. I'm not altogether convinced a 2/2 split isn't as strong as 4 Pyrokinesis, however, Pyrokinesis at least pitches to other Pyrokinesis, so perhaps not.

What I do like most about Pyrokinesis is that it is at its absolute strongest when you're not getting enough mana. If Dragon Stompy curves out just right, I find it to be an incredible powerhouse, but with too much or too little mana, it suffers greatly. Pyrokinesis at least fixes one of these problems.

[TheCramp]

Thanks for posting your list. For the record, I ripped this deck off from you and Phantom and have had a blast with it. I was a stax player and trini is the monster in that build. (I used Braids and Stax, that is a hard lock with Trini my friends...) and was having a hard time even thinking of cutting trini because of my success with that card in another deck. But I had the same observation. Lost more games with the mid game draw than won with the first turn drop. We test with dragon stompy a lot as a base line AGGRO match up, right along with goblins. It helps. Losing to DS is a learning experience about your curve. Any weakness in it is fully illustrated by this match-up. More so than even CB control. CB punishes you for being 1-2 drop heavy. DS attacks decks the same way w/ CotV and trini, but also punish you for not being fast enough to respond and get tempo. Now if that isn't an aggro situation, I don't know what is.

Edit: As I test with and vs. goblins alot, and have even been doing some DS-goblins match ups I have to say that being able to kill Wort is a big deal. Warren Weirding is powerful against DS, a barrage of them is frown town. She is must kill, and even powering up Jitte enough can be hard. So Pyrokinesis is keen in my book.

Well Taco, wasted life says he doesn't read the TES forum, so I guess you're off the hook.

[Tacosnape]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually sat around and done serious testing with 4 Akroma, Angel of Fury in a 24-threat build? Or 3 in a 23, for that matter? I'm contemplating trying this out despite my brain telling me it's not a great idea, but I've been testing the deck so much lately I sort of need a break from it.

[J.V.]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually sat around and done serious testing with 4 Akroma, Angel of Fury in a 24-threat build? Or 3 in a 23, for that matter? I'm contemplating trying this out despite my brain telling me it's not a great idea, but I've been testing the deck so much lately I sort of need a break from it.

I've actually done it although like you I assumed it would be a bad idea. As we both pre-concluded it doesn't work well you end up with a 2/2 Morph that you can't unmorph most games you play them. I Personally Feel we should just not play Akroma AoF and just run:
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Arc-Slogger
3 Taurean Mauler
as the threats this particular 22 threat count has been magnificent for me.

[Tacosnape]

@Jan: Strange. I haven't liked Taurean Mauler, although he's not bad early on. I find that with Chalice and Moon, my opponent doesn't play many spells, and if they stop Chalice and Moon, I struggle to keep them from removing my threats anyway. What's your metagame like? I'm curious to know what Mauler's been thriving in for you.

[Maveric78f]

Still according to me the perfect DS build is done like this:
30 mana sources (10 mountains, 8 2manalands, 4 chromemox, 4 SSG, 4 Seething)
16 lock pieces (8 moon, 4 trini, 4 chalice)
14 beaters (4 Raiders, 4 Dragons, 3/4 Arc-Slogger, 2/3 ???)

For the unknown slots:
- Taurean Mauler is bad because your locks prevent your opponent from playing. If your lock works, then you have a vanilla 2/2. If it does not, then you're probably ------ up.
- Sulfur Elemental is bad because it's only a 3/2. The good thing about it is that it is uncounterable which is really fine, even with lock pieces. but striking only for 3 is bad in the strategy I explained earlier.
- Akroma: it's good because it looks like a Gathan Raiders but it's bad because it's not a Gathan Raider. Unmorph is very random, but once unmorphed it's really a bomb. I'm not decided on it.
- Countryside Crusher: the casting cost is quite problematic, requiring RR, but eventually, with moons and all the mana acceleration, it's not that much a constraint. It provides topdecks as long as it gets bigger. the problem with it is that it can be risky to play it when you are low on mana sources.
- Masticores : quite nice but the upkeep cost is completely unplayable with hellbent and not being pitchable to chrome mox is quite a problem too. They get rid of chump blockers and make your magus/SSG attack. However, in my strategy, I don"t thing that you'll need several threats at the same time. Maybe on of the best shots.

I don't know if you considered other creatures.

Edit: mmm forgot Chandra Nalaar. Looks solid too. I mean 12 dmg in 3 turns, it's really great.

[Rinello]

My list is not the perfect one, but I use it like a primer or an archetype... ok,let's do this:

22 creatures.
4 Magus of the moon - utility
4 Simian Spirit guide - utility
4 Rakdos pit dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
3 Arcslogger
2 Sulfur Elemental
1 Akroma - Stompy

18 lands.
10 Mountain
4+4 lands

8 mana.
4 Chome mox
4 Seething song

total so far: 48.

Lock-
4 Chalice of the void
+
3 trinisphere +1 Blood Moon = THIS IS JUST A META CALL, YOU CAN SPLIT THIS SLOT THE WAY YOU LIKE.

Equipment
4 slot.
I use 3 Jitte and 1 Sofi. 4 is good in my opinion.


---

SB:

4 slot: mine is 1 trinisphere and 3 Blood Moon. Your slot should depend on your maindeck choice.

3 pithing needle
4 tormod's crypt
4 PyroSOMETHING



*****************

OK, now: is this list something we can start from?

[Maveric78f]

Rinello > your argumentation is very interesting. If I did a 20lines argumentation, it's not to be answered with an explanation-free list.

Zulander > Right. But playing a lock (chalice/pillar/trinisphere) is often far better, mostly because even with the perfect hand Taco's signature described, he needs a very random topdeck to have that 2nd turn kill, and he is likely to be killed on turn 1 or 2 of the combo player anyway. With a turn1 chalice or trini, that is absolutely impossible.

[Peter_Rotten]

Who care what type of deck this is? It's a deck that runs creatures and disruption. Enough, new page, new start.

Agreed. Further discussion about the deck's archetype will be deleted. If needed, warnings will be issued.

[zulander]

Rinello > your argumentation is very interesting. If I did a 20lines argumentation, it's not to be answered with an explanation-free list.

Zulander > Right. But playing a lock (chalice/pillar/trinisphere) is often far better, mostly because even with the perfect hand Taco's signature described, he needs a very random topdeck to have that 2nd turn kill, and he is likely to be killed on turn 1 or 2 of the combo player anyway. With a turn1 chalice or trini, that is absolutely impossible.

The only thing that he would have been unable to play was a 5cc card like arc slogger. I'll take my chances of top decking a 3 of with 52 cards in my deck if it means I win on turn 2-3. Mulling to 6-5 looking for a lock piece < winning turn 2-3. If they combo out then oh well because the hand that was given to you has made you the aggro player and combo the control one, and unfortunately combo is not a good control deck.

[Bovinious]

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually sat around and done serious testing with 4 Akroma, Angel of Fury in a 24-threat build? Or 3 in a 23, for that matter? I'm contemplating trying this out despite my brain telling me it's not a great idea, but I've been testing the deck so much lately I sort of need a break from it.

You know shes a legend right? Anyways I dont think more than 1-2 Akroma is right, I think that many is justified because she is never dead, being a 2/2 for .

Also, why are people running less than 4 Arc Slogger? Its pretty much the strongest creature in the deck except a hellbent RPD.

[savemysoul]

Still according to me the perfect DS build is done
- Taurean Mauler is bad because your locks prevent your opponent from playing. If your lock works, then you have a vanilla 2/2. If it does not, then you're probably ------ up.

But if your opponent doesn`t play any spells, cuz of your lock pieces, than mauler is a 10-turn clock ? any thoughts on this ? If they play something and don`t have removal he`s just bigger.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Also, why are people running less than 4 Arc Slogger? Its pretty much the strongest creature in the deck except a hellbent RPD.

The five mana can be hard to reach later in the game, especially with moons out.

But if your opponent doesn`t play any spells, cuz of your lock pieces, than mauler is a 10-turn clock ? any thoughts on this ? If they play something and don`t have removal he`s just bigger.

That's ten turns of your opponent not playing any thing. The only things he could be doing involve man lands, 42Lands, and Ichorid. Any other deck will either play spells, or lose.

[Tacosnape]

You know shes a legend right?

When will this ever become relevant? When you manage to get the mana to flip two of them over?

While I mostly agree 4 is probably too much, Red Akroma's going to usually be a 2/2 morphed guy. She's going to draw removal because people fear she's a Gathan Raiders or fear you might flip her. She's going to be the first card imprinted on Chrome or pitched to Pyrokinesis, and she's very often going to be used to flip a Gathan Raiders. But games will arise when you flip her, and you will win. She ends the game insanely fast on her own, and she's a complete nightmare to get rid of. You can't STP her, you can't Vindicate her, it's going to be rare that you can Deed her, and if you ever somehow get the mana to hardcast her, they can't counter her either. Chances are they'll just counter the Seething Song you play before you cast her, but if they don't know you have Akroma, it'll go through. Alternately, if they -do- know you have Akroma, you can use midgame Seething Songs to actually bluff-bait counters.

The point of all of this, which I've now digressed from, is that you will almost never need to flip more than one.

[Phantom]

This has me wanting to test a build with all my Sloggers (3 right now) replaced with Akromas. I like the fact that they have to waste their removal BEFORE I use my Song, and the fact that getting hellbent would be like a breeze in this build. I understand that I'd be losing that whole turn 1-2 Slogger, whoops I win factor (not that a flipped angel doesn't act similar), and that we'd be more vunerable to burn removal than ever, but I want to try it.

[theross]

I still don't see Akroma being better than Taurean Mauler. You arugue that Akroma will never be dead since you can morph her but in that situation, she's just a worse Mauler. Mauler will always be better than a 2/2 since if your opponent doesn't play spells, you are winning the game (With the possible exception of Dredge). While this might not matter against most combo decks, neither will Akroma so there is still a slight edge for Mauler since there can be situations arising where they spend some spells trying to get through your disruption and that gives you a faster clock. The only times I really see Akroma being better is when you're in the mid-late game and mana flooded, which is bad for you, or you gain some advantage with the Gathan Raiders bluff, which won't happen too often. That being said, I'm still not sure Mauler is better than Sulfur Elemental, his flash ability has been quite useful.