[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[savemysoul]

Jaya Ballard sucks. 1RR, she`s slow, you need mana to activate her

[Tacosnape]

Let's shorten this. If it costs , it doesn't go in Dragon Stompy. That includes Jaya Ballard, Countryside Crusher, Pillage, uh...Orcish Artilllery...you get the idea.

Fireblast is not an option. Sacrificing two mountains isn't a viable strategy when half the games you play you don't get two mountains unless you resolve a Moon. Secondly, you need cards that aren't dead in your hand. You can't afford to aggressively play Fireblast because then you won't be able to cast just about any spell you topdeck.

Char is an option, but not a great one. It's more of a removal spell than a finisher. It's incredibly rare you get an opponent down to 4 or less and can't finish them off, especially since your eight largest threats, Slogger and Dragon, allow you to pump all your excess mana into them to deal more damage anyway.

If you really want to kill things with toughness 4 or less, bring back Flametongue Kavu. I've said all along that in the right metagames it's seriously not bad. And even if it can't always kill a Tarmogoyf, it can at least come into play safely if your opponent has a Tarmogoyf, which is worth something.

[Phantom]

@ Char: I actually looked at Char when we first created the deck. It wasn't even worth it then. Now it's even worse since it doesn't kill Goyf. This deck wants to maximize threats and Char doesn't carry a Jitte or lockdown an opponent. There are rarely games where we lose and the opponent is at one to four life.
@ Fireblast: Has great synergy with a deck that runs 10 Mountains, Trinisphere, wants to maintain hellbent, and runs no other burn.
@ Jaya ballard: Good god she's awful. There are almost NO blue permanents we fear at all (you will never have her down when a Standstill hits, and we laugh at CB) and turning our cards in hand into incinerates seems not worth a hard to cast 2/2.


I like these sample hand questions. Assuming no info on the opponents deck:

1) CotV, Mountain, SSG, Mox, Mox, Blood Moon, Seething Song
This hand offers a powerful lock early game, but lacks in threats

I always keep this. I know you have to topdeck a threat, but that's exactly what the lockpieces can do: buy you time. I would lead with Chalice if I was on the draw (imprint Song and keep SSG back for Daze) but double mox and Moon on the play for the whole "I kept a dual and a fetch and now I'm fucked" factor.

2) Tomb, Mountain, SSG, Raiders, Raiders, Seething Song, Mox
This hand offers threats and pressure early game, but has difficulty enabling Hellbent (unless you want to waste the cards in your hand). It lacks in locks, and a deck with removal might take advantage of this fact.

Why is this hard to get Hellbent with? Two Raiders hands w/ Song, Mox, and SSG are NEVER hard to get hellbent with.

3) Tomb, City, RPD, Seething Song, CotV, MotM, Jitte
This hand is pretty powerful if you draw a red source. Do you wait and hope to draw that red source, as you have eighteen in your deck, and have not yet drawn a single one?

I have a rule after running into SO many of these (across all Stompy variants). I only keep no colored source hands if I have TWO casteable lock pieces. So for us that's two Chalices or a Chalice and a Trini. Otherwise a counter/Vindicate/Disenchant/etc plus us not topdecking one of our 14 (18 w/ SSG) outs for a few turns means an auto loss.

4) Mox, Mox, MotM, Blood Moon, Mountain, SSG, Trinisphere
This hand might be worth playing, but how much of your hand do you want to contribute to speed? Turn one Magus, Moon or Trinisphere is doable, but eats up a lot of your hand. How to play this? Mountain --> go?
Also: if you do not know what your opponent is playing, do you drop turn1 Blood Moon or turn 1 Magus?

Tough call and the reason I've moved all 4 Trinis to the side. Have to go Trini via SSG turn 1 I think.

5) Mountain, Mox, SSG, Slogger, RPD, MotM, SSG
This is a similar example; it offers an explosive start at the cost of almost your entire hand. Without a mana land it's often possible to make that 3-drop turn one; is it worth it? Do you wait?
Do you drop turn one MotM or turn one RPD? Dropping MotM means cutting yourself out of turn 2 RPD.

I always go for turn 1 Magus here (imprint Slog). Turn 1 Dragons are usually not as cool as their potential since they die to every piece of removal, and they need hellbent to be awesome and you couldn't guarantee that turn 2. Play disruption to stall then wait for an extra mana source.

Consider this hand if it were:

6) Mountain, Mox, SSG, Slogger, RPD, MotM, CotV
Would that change it?

I imprint Slog, go for Chalice at one (you lead with Chalice over Magus because it will protect him from Bolt and Stp). Depending on the draw, I would probably go for Magus turn two. Disruption gets you out of these iffy hands by turning the opponents hand into a worse hand than yours.

7) Tomb, SSG, MotM, RPD, Trinisphere, CotV, Blood Moon
I get this quite often; in general number 7 is basically a hand that nails you a three-drop turn one, but leaves you at two mana turn 2 (if you drop trinisphere), or more often: at one mana if you drop MotM or Blood Moon as they turn the land into a mountain. What to do with hands that mean a turn 1 drop for you, but leaves you out of the mana turn 2?

Any hand that will leave me with a Moon and Chalice by turn two is a keeper as long as I know I'm not playing one of the few decks this doesn't destroy.

[Tacosnape]

7) Tomb, SSG, MotM, RPD, Trinisphere, CotV, Blood Moon
I get this quite often; in general number 7 is basically a hand that nails you a three-drop turn one, but leaves you at two mana turn 2 (if you drop trinisphere), or more often: at one mana if you drop MotM or Blood Moon as they turn the land into a mountain. What to do with hands that mean a turn 1 drop for you, but leaves you out of the mana turn 2?

Any hand that will leave me with a Moon and Chalice by turn two is a keeper as long as I know I'm not playing one of the few decks this doesn't destroy.

Here's my problem with this.

You go turn one Tomb, Chalice. You go turn two pitch SSG, tap Tomb, Magus or Blood Moon. Now where are you?

If your Moon sticks, you now have one mountain, period. You are two mana sources away from being able to play anything. If you didn't shut down your opponent with it, and they managed to grab a basic along the way, they might very well drop enough Tarmogoyfs to have an overwhelming board position before your Moon dies.

[Phantom]

Here's my problem with this.

You go turn one Tomb, Chalice. You go turn two pitch SSG, tap Tomb, Magus or Blood Moon. Now where are you?

If your Moon sticks, you now have one mountain, period. You are two mana sources away from being able to play anything. If you didn't shut down your opponent with it, and they managed to grab a basic along the way, they might very well drop enough Tarmogoyfs to have an overwhelming board position before your Moon dies.

Yeah, I guess this is one of the few places where I would drop Magus of the Moon over Blood Moon because generally if they luck into a basic, they will drop a ground creature or hit Magus with removal. Either way we are back to a Chalice and a Tomb and one of 17 (19 permanent) red mana source topdecks from getting back in it.

I could see shipping the hand back, but with no info I always try to keep as many cards as possible and I think this is a winning hand.

[Rinello]

Ok so after my awful Char & Co. idea, I think Sparkspitter isn't worth a test too.

Anyway I think that the problem with this deck is also its beauty:
After the 1st-2nd turn explosion your SSG and Songs have gone away, your land are now mountains and you are just topdeckin somethin you hope to use, else you will loose Hellbent and sometimes slow yourself till the time when your opponent finds an answer.

I guess we have a 3 maybe 4 card slot (akroma,sulfur elemental and 1 moon+trinisphere slot) and we need a card.

If you could create this card, what would it be?

I vote for a threat, cost , red creature with evasive or control ability.

[Bovinious]

I'm really having trouble fitting in Sulfur Elemental, more Pit Dragons, and Akroma. How many Blood Moons and 3Spheres is typical to be running these days? Currently have 2 Blood Moon MD, 3 3Sphere MD, with the rest side, but should a few of these be cut for more dudes?

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

My list is:

18 lands
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 SSG

4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc Slogger
4 Magus of the Moon
1 Akroma, Who Lit the Fuse on my Tampon?

4 Blood Moon
4 CotV
2 Trini
3 Jitte

I'm very close to adopting the 0 trinisphere list, but Thresh makes up usually 1/4 to a 1/3 of my meta, and it's such a beating against Thresh. I haven't really done a lot of testing to finalize my list, but I've been happy with gold fishing. Just from reading I believe both Taco and Phantom have dropped trini from the main, but I'm not sure about others.

[Tacosnape]

I'm really having trouble fitting in Sulfur Elemental, more Pit Dragons, and Akroma. How many Blood Moons and 3Spheres is typical to be running these days? Currently have 2 Blood Moon MD, 3 3Sphere MD, with the rest side, but should a few of these be cut for more dudes?

The longer I play Dragon Stompy the more threats I want in it. While I think the deck is perfectly capable of winning with 20 and Trinispheres, especially in the right metagames, I highly prefer 22-24 threats with emphasis on Chalice / Moon maindeck.

I also don't think you can fit in Sulfur Elemental, Akroma, and Mauler. I think it's possible to fit a couple of any given two of them if you don't maindeck Trinisphere, but more likely you're going to have to pick just one.

[Shawon]

Has Blistering Firecat been tossed around yet? Seems pretty explosive. You can always morph it. EDIT: But then again, you do the same thing with Akroma, I guess.

[noobslayer]

There are also things like Phyrexian Warbeast (probably bad), Synod Centurion (not so bad), and Masticore (as a 1 or 2 of).

I've always felt this decks creature base was underwhelming excluding Slogger and Magus, but despite that, it still seems to perform well.

[Tacosnape]

Has Blistering Firecat been tossed around yet? Seems pretty explosive. You can always morph it. EDIT: But then again, you do the same thing with Akroma, I guess.

Firecat's pretty bad. Dragon Stompy loses when it can't keep threats around. Threats that go away on their own, therefore, are bad.

There are also things like Phyrexian Warbeast (probably bad), Synod Centurion (not so bad), and Masticore (as a 1 or 2 of).

Phyrexian Warbeast: It isn't red.
Synod Centurion: It isn't red. Keeping it in play would be difficult.
Masticore: It isn't red. It also is very bad with Hellbent.

Hope that covers that.

[Rinello]

ok:

http://magiccards.info/ju/en/79.html
Barbarian Bully?

Hellbent friendly and red, with low CC

[noobslayer]

You wouldn't play Masticore more than one or two copies, and also it can be used to engage Hellbent as well.

[Rinello]

You wouldn't play Masticore more than one or two copies, and also it can be used to engage Hellbent as well.

When Masticore is on the board, you don't have hellbent.
If you do, Masticore is gonna die.

That's it.

[Maveric78f]

Craven Giant
Creature - Giant 4/1 2R (3) Portal (Common)
Craven Giant can't block

Flailing Ogre
Creature - Ogre 3/3 2R (3) Mercadian Masques (Uncommon)
{1}: Flailing Ogre gets +1/+1 until end of turn. Any player may play this ability.
{1}: Flailing Ogre gets -1/-1 until end of turn. Any player may play this ability.

Giant Solifuge
Creature - Insect 4/1 2{R/G}{R/G} (4) Guildpact (Rare)
Trample, Haste, Shroud.

Goblin Goon
Creature - Goblin Mutant 6/6 3R (4) Legions (Rare)
Goblin Goon can't attack unless you control more creatures than defending player.
Goblin Goon can't block unless you control more creatures than attacking player.

Grid Monitor
Artifact Creature - Construct 4/6 4 (4) Mirrodin (Rare)
You can't play creature spells.

Hulking Ogre
Creature - Ogre 3/3 2R (3) Starter (Uncommon)
Hulking Ogre can't block.

Lava Hounds
Creature - Hound 4/4 2RR (4) Core Set - Eighth Edition (Rare)
Haste.
When Lava Hounds comes into play, it deals 4 damage to you.

Lavacore Elemental
Creature - Elemental 5/3 2R (3) Planar Chaos (Uncommon)
Vanishing 1.
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, put a time counter on Lavacore Elemental.

Lesser Gargadon
Creature - Beast 6/4 2RR (4) Core Set - Eighth Edition (Uncommon)
Whenever Lesser Gargadon attacks or blocks, sacrifice a land.

Lightning Elemental
Creature - Elemental 4/1 3R (4) Tenth Edition (Common)
Haste.

Ogre Recluse
Creature - Ogre Warrior 5/4 3R (4) Betrayers of Kamigawa (Uncommon)
Whenever a player plays a spell, tap Ogre Recluse.

Phyrexian Ironfoot
Snow Artifact Creature - Construct 3/4 3 (3) Coldsnap (Uncommon)
Phyrexian Ironfoot doesn't untap during your untap step.
{1}{S}: Untap Phyrexian Ironfoot. ({S} can be paid with one mana from a snow permanent.)

Shah of Naar Isle
Creature - Efreet 6/6 3R (4) Future Sight (Rare)
Trample.
Echo {0}.
When Shah of Naar Isle's echo cost is paid, each opponent may draw up to three cards.

Shivan Wumpus
Creature - Beast 6/6 3R (4) Planar Chaos (Rare)
Trample.
When Shivan Wumpus comes into play, any player may sacrifice a land. If a player does, put Shivan Wumpus on top of its owner's library.

Volcano Hellion
Creature - Hellion 6/5 2RR (4) Planar Chaos (Rare)
Volcano Hellion has echo X, where X is your life total.
When Volcano Hellion comes into play, it deals an amount of damage of your choice to you and target creature. The damage can't be prevented.


I'm not sure all these cards have been discussed. Ogre Recluse looks great for instance. Volcano Hellion too.

[Arsenal]

Skizzik? I know it dies by itself if you don't kicker it, but it's a one-shot 5 points of damage for 3R, or a 5/3 trampler for 3RR.

[C.P.]

Just a thought, but how about Pact of Titan?

It seems a lot better than any of the junks there.

[Tacosnape]

Mostly bad cards

Craven Giant: Considered at the very very beginning of the deck to compete with Bloodrock Cyclops and didn't make the cut.

Flailing Ogre: Horrible idea. You play him, they untap, pay three mana, kill him. If they don't, you have to commit mana to keep him alive, rather than playing Dragons, Sloggers, their abilities, equip costs, or whatever.

Giant Solifuge: Interesting, but the toughness is too low and the double red too difficult.

Goblin Goon: There are a ton of matches where his drawback will eat your face.

Grid Monitor: Uh, no? A. He isn't red, B. we -like- playing creatures. Playing creatures = more threats on the board. Not playing creatures = not Hellbent.

Hulking Ogre: Worse than Bloodrock Cyclops, who doesn't make the cut.

Lava Hounds: Again, the double red is a huge drawback, as is the four damage in a deck packing Tomb. This could be negated if Lava Hounds were actually impressive once he hits play.

Lavacore Elemental: You can't keep him in play.

Lesser Gargadon: Sacrificing land = Not conducive to keeping Hellbent.

Lightning Elemental: Mehhh. Toughness 1 and four mana, and it isn't all that overwhelmingly strong.

Ogre Recluse: Nothing like Brainstorm doubling as Icy Manipulator. Definitely no.

Phyrexian Ironfoot: Too many drawbacks for too little power. It's not Red, we have to pay to use him, and he's only 3 power.

Shah of Naar Isle: No! Ancestral Recall on your opponent is not okay!

Shivan Wumpus: Awful. Giving your opponent the choice is a lose-lose situation. If you topdeck him on turn six or seven, he's a dead topdeck.

Volcano Hellion: Out of all the cards listed, this is the only one that's actually interesting. Paying the Echo will be incredibly difficult, moreso if you needed a Tomb to get him out. But he does eat a Tarmogoyf and give you a 6/5 in its place, if you're willing to play the game at very low life totals. Echo is bad for Hellbent, but you may not need it if this guy's out. I suppose it's worth testing.

EDIT: What exactly is everyone trying to replace, anyway? Dragon Stompy isn't running very many subpar creatures. SSG's necessary for mana, Magus is game-ending. Raiders and Dragon are both fantastic, and Slogger's nuts as long as you can cast him. This means anything you come up with has to be better than Taurean Mauler, Sulfur Elemental, Flametongue Kavu, and Akroma, Angel of Fury, who are still the top four candidates for any slots beyond the main 20, which some people don't even run. Volcano Hellion might be, but I doubt it. The rest of those suggestions aren't.

[Maveric78f]

All the cards are listed in the option of a half-prison half-beatdown game plan I proposed earlier. I had 2 empty spots for beaters and none of the 4 candidates looks terriffic. The goal is to win within 3 or 4 turns with 1 kill in play, when your opponent is struggling to go back into the game facing your lock piece.

I'm approxively ok with all you remarks except :

Lesser Gargadon: Sacrificing land = Not conducive to keeping Hellbent.

If you have him in play, either you don't need hellbent either you don't need to attack.

Ogre Recluse: Nothing like Brainstorm doubling as Icy Manipulator. Definitely no.

Let's face it. Only brainstorm is an overly played instant that don't need a legal target in legacy. Brainstorm is probably hit by trinisphere, chalice, and even moons as blue decks love to splash. I think it's a very good entry.

Shivan Wumpus: Awful. Giving your opponent the choice is a lose-lose situation. If you topdeck him on turn six or seven, he's a dead topdeck.

On turn 6 or 7, you are already dead if you don't control the game by denying their mana base. I'm not sure it's so bad. I mean 6/6 trample for 4 when your opponent is mana denied...

Volcano Hellion: Out of all the cards listed, this is the only one that's actually interesting. Paying the Echo will be incredibly difficult, moreso if you needed a Tomb to get him out. But he does eat a Tarmogoyf and give you a 6/5 in its place, if you're willing to play the game at very low life totals. Echo is bad for Hellbent, but you may not need it if this guy's out. I suppose it's worth testing.

If you really take the combo lock/beatdown. He's another perfect guy removing a blocker and hitting strong. The only problem is that it's absolutely not combo with ancient tomb. With him in play all your ancient tombs become deads as long as you don't get a moon effect.