Why can't we have Skullclamp?

[AngryTroll]

I think that Skullclamp would make considerably more splash than it is being given credit for. First, Affinity would get a draw engine to rival Goblins. Whether Goblins would play it or not is up for debate, but it seems like a strong possibility. Goyf Sligh might even test the card to put on Goyfs and Marauders.

Midrange decks like Survival would certainly benefit from the card. With the deck already playing small creatures and trying to drag the game on into the midgame, a second card advantage engine would be a huge advantage.

Skullclamp is a recurring card advantage engine. It's effect on the game would probably be similar to Survival or Loam- isn't going to win the game on the spot. But if it goes unchecked for several turns, it will probably provide enough card advantage to win the game. For example, a Skullclamped Goyf trades with other Goyfs and draws two cards.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

It's effect on the game would probably be similar to Survival or Loam- isn't going to win the game on the spot. But if it goes unchecked for several turns, it will probably provide enough card advantage to win the game. For example, a Skullclamped Goyf trades with other Goyfs and draws two cards.

Agreed.

So why not unban it?

[Rood]

Maybe I dont really understand how broken this is since I wasnt really playing too much magic during the affinity/clamp days. But honestly would skullclamp ruin the format? Where could it be broken?

Clamp wouldn't completely destroy the format but it would definetally not benefit from having it in. Aggro decks would run rampant with Clamp ownage. Specific ones in general I can see Affinity, Goyf Sligh, Gobbs, Elves. I can tell you if they brought back Clamp needle would see a shitload more play.

[AngryTroll]

Agreed.

So why not unban it?

I'm not sure it couldn't be unbanned. I'd be very interested to see how much effect it would have on the game. With most decks running Krosan Grip now, it certainly isn't unanswerable.

On the other hand, it is a very powerful card, as anyone that played Type Affinity (2) remembers. I understand the hesitation to unban it.

Sidenore: I had a casual deck I built so the casual players around here would stop complaining. It had Skullclamp, Yavimaya Elder, Penumbra Bobcat, and Natural Order in it. Good times.

[memnarch]

There may come about a really good storm deck with kobolds. Thats the only danger I can see. Through in some Shield Sphere, Phyrexian Walkers. some stuff to sac em too: cabal theropy, Diabolic Intent, and Culling the Weak. You add the fact that we can play more accelaration then vintage: LOD, chrome mox etc. and you could have a blazing fast combo deck on your hands.

But sure why not? I'm not opposed to unbanning it.

[Tacosnape]

The real question is why we can have threads like this in the first place where everybody has an opinion that, according to them, is the gospel of Magic.

[DeathwingZERO]

The card would suck here, end of story. Comparing it to Standard when it was around is like saying Tooth, Ravager, Extraction, Plow Under, Boseiju, Jitte, and Kiki-Jiki are busted in this format. LOLZ

It MAY swing some aggro matches against terribly built control decks. But really, do those control decks exist? All the top ones here have either Shackles, Deed, EE, Needle, Stifle, Grip, StP...........the list goes on. Most of the decks even have more answers than the number of Clamps they'd be going up against in a single match.

It also would swing aggro mirrors. But they are the only ones to benefit from it. So truthfully, it's saying "whoever gets Clamp down without it being isolated to uselessness, wins". This isn't much different than "whoever gets down the fatty that survives longer, wins". Rather than going for a stronger creature that'll beat up the others, you are going to attempt to outdraw them. I'm all for that. It'd make those matches a hell of a lot quicker, and much less boring to watch.

Combo decks? LOLZ again. Kobold-Clamp-Glimpse.dec is probably the most overrated storm deck out there, and it never even showed up to play. Seriously, Dragon has a better chance of getting a successful storm count off than this deck, and that deck at least packed 4 Force and Duress when it felt like it. KC can pack MAYBE 4 Unmasks. But the rest of the deck is utter garbage, and it has literally no alternate win conditions. You storm to win, or you lose. It's easily the most suicidal storm deck out there next to Meandeck SX in Vintage.

Here's why it won't be unbanned: It's boring, and doesn't breed any new creativity. That's it. There's no potential to bust it, every deck can potentially pack answers that are just as fast (or even faster....lub me sum Needle ackshun), and it'd be a blip on the radar in aggro mirrors, which are obviously a dime a dozen in this format.

So the real question comes down to this: Why do you want it back?

[thefreakaccident]

This thread has surprisingly stayed quite civil... I would lock it while we are ahead, as it can only go down hill from here.

[Maagler]

Combo decks? LOLZ again. Kobold-Clamp-Glimpse.dec is probably the most overrated storm deck out there, and it never even showed up to play. Seriously, Dragon has a better chance of getting a successful storm count off than this deck, and that deck at least packed 4 Force and Duress when it felt like it. KC can pack MAYBE 4 Unmasks. But the rest of the deck is utter garbage, and it has literally no alternate win conditions. You storm to win, or you lose. It's easily the most suicidal storm deck out there next to Meandeck SX in Vintage.

Agreed, I played this deck for a little while and i don't see it being any more powerful than tes or ichorid.

[matelml]

With Skullclamp legal any aggro mirror comes down to who has the Clamp and control decks wouldn't be able to beat any good aggro deck anymore. Sure it can be answered, but it's a lot harder to answer than creatures and we all know answers to broken cards don't make the broken cards fair. It's too strong, I even think I would be able to build a combo deck with it.

[zulander]

I'd put it in GAGOMY, but that's just me. Literally.

[Willoe]

What is GAGOMY anyway? I forgot :P

[kabal]

What is GAGOMY anyway? I forgot :P

GAGOMY (Gators, Apes, Goyfs OMY)

[Sims]

I'm not going to get involved in this thread, as ban/unban threads in general are pretty stupid, but I'd play it in goyf sligh all day long.

[SilverGreen]

Because you weren't a good little boy and you didn't eat all your vegetables.

You're so funny. Want a cookie, champz? ;)

I agree with people saying that Skullclamp is slow for the format, at least in an Elves or Goblins shell. But Afinnity would reestablish its combo facet, and I think it could become completelly nuts with it, as it was in all Constructed formats during its Mirrodin-era kingdom. Affinity is held in check in Extended and Legacy due to the higher amounts of hate and splash-hate that are widely played in the formats (Deeds, Explosives, etc.). The Clamp would fix this deck's vulnerability, giving it a refuel device even better than Ringleader in Gobbos. Perhaps, it would turn Pithing Needle an obligation in all kind of decks.

But even with all of this, I would like to see it (alongside Land Tax) played in Legacy, at least for a period of time, as a test. Preferentially in a safe time, without a Legacy GP in the horizon.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

How the hell does this work? It's not fast, or even necessarily relevant, but it gives you card advantage, eventually, so let's ban it?

It works on the principle that the point of the happy-pretendy-fun-time-game of the Magical gathering type cards is to be an enjoyable and interesting game experience. It is not to be fair. Fairness in gameplay is merely a tool to this end that usually also serves as a good guideline to how enjoyable and challenging a game will be. But it's not everything. Diversity (and thus, surprise and more interacitivty challenges) is an important feature as well. Skullclamp isn't necessarily unfair (in Legacy) but it puts stifling limits on deckbuilding. It makes few new strategies viable, makes a number unviable, and must by virtue of it's power and colorless requirements automatically suck up four slots in most aggressive decks, if not main than at least in the side; and it's place there must still dictate other cards in the deck. It's got every problem Tarmogoyf has but more so, and I'd keep it banned for the same reason I'd ban the goyf.

[chokin]

I'm not for or against Clamp being unbanned. This card would be pretty amazing in some decks. It'd be an auto include for many aggro decks so that when they lose a creature, they still keep their hands full.

I'm not sure that it would be as broken as some people claim. I don't think it would warp the format or make "good aggro impossible for control to beat". Tarmogoyf is pretty busted, but it just means you have to change up your gameplan a bit and pack removal to deal with it. If you expect Clamp, put in cards to beat Clamp, and continue to play. There are tons of cards that could deal with it that could fit in any deck. Engineered Explosives, Powder Keg, Pithing Needle, and probably more already thought of or mentioned.

[Shriekmaw]

I think Skullclamp would change for format a little, but I don't consider it being broken at all. Especially since we have combo decks that go off on turn 1 in the format and can vary easily win by turn 3 or 4. I just love the idea of getting the card back because then I believe Affinity would be a lot better even though more people with h.ave hate for it.

I do realize that the format is more toward aggro these days just because Wizards consistency is printing better aggro cards than control cards these days.

The decks I believe Skullclamp would be in are the following: Affinity, Goblins, Blue Skies, Aggro Rock decks, Elves, and possibly Survival.

[Machinus]

The reason why we can't have skullclamp is because the DCI had a very bad experience with it recently. It has nothing to do with the power of the card, which is on par with many Legacy cards. It's really debatable whether or not it would be good in the format.

[Anusien]

Considering the format is somewhat healthy now, is there a reason to unban Skullclamp and take the risk? It seems like the only value in favor of unbanning Skullclamp is the desire to have a shorter ban list.

I'm imagining the card in Faerie Stompy, for one. Faerie Stompy's biggest problem has always seemed to me to be its inconsistency; if it gets a turn 1 Sea Drake or Serendib Efreet it is going to roll the opponent, but if it just gets Cloud of Faeries + Chalice of the Void, it's in trouble. Skullclamp turns Sea Drake into a 4 turn clock and turns every creature opening into a Sea Drake opening.

To the people who have said that Skullclamp is irrelevant to the control decks because they just counter all the creatures, you're wrong. Landstill has never had to counter all the creatures before; it can't because it doesn't have enough counters. In a Skullclamp aggro fight versus control, Skullclamp aggro will win everytime it clamps even once. Can you imagine some sort of RG deck clamping a Tarmogoyf? That's going to require not just a removal spell but Deed; otherwise when you kill Tarmogoyf they are going to reload and find another huge beater.