[Deck] Imperial Painter

[Skeggi]

Darn. Hope it doesn't get banned for being a tutor.

Just like Mystical Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Infernal Tutor, Worldly Tutor and all the wishes got banned. Oh wait, they didn't.

[sankido]

@a legend:
it would be very helpful if you could post your actual deck list.

I tried to compete in a tournament with this deck and I went 2-3

I've lost against:

• Eva Green
• Goblins
• White Weenie

I found out two things about that deck:
1. Discard is very bad news, especially if Extirpate is around. But even without Extirpate you will be slowed down extremely by discard effects.

2. I have always problems in finding that damn Grindstone if it's not in my starting hand. Mulliganing for it doesn't seems to be a good idea, cause I'm already quite fast in topdeck mode. Against aggressive decks I run run out of solutions before I can go into combo.

I'm thinking about adding Enlightened Tutor. Any suggestions?

[Skeggi]

Or Trinket Mage, this way you splash blue, which might be a better color to splash (academy ruins n stuff), plus you can Imperial Recruit the Trinket Mage (yes, that makes the Imperial Recruiter a tutor for a tutor, but still).

Edit:
Here's a list with Enlightened Tutor which top8ed: clicky must say that that's only 1 out of 5 Imperial Painter lists that top8ed and it had the worst result of them all (7th), but then again, ofcourse it's a very young concept :)

Edit2:
Here are lists with Trinket Painter: Clicky which are apparently more succesful, because they have 12 top 8 entries instead of 5, and even a number 1 spot. But overall it's a completely different deck, but I think you can easily combine the 2. (Think of it: if everything is blue, everything ditches to FoW)

[sankido]

Yeah of course. Trinket Mage is a good suggestion and it has been done a good job in many other successful decks. But I think in this special deck Enlightened Tutor is more effective because a) it cost less and b) it let you tutor up either of your two combo parts and c) it can tutor for Blood moon (obviously you have to play them over magus)

The biggest problem I see is the mana base. I could imagine to swap the Simian Spirit Guides with Lotus Petals and maybe adding Manamorphose.

[moOnsteak]

I found out two things about that deck:
1. Discard is very bad news, especially if Extirpate is around. But even without Extirpate you will be slowed down extremely by discard effects.

2. I have always problems in finding that damn Grindstone if it's not in my starting hand. Mulliganing for it doesn't seems to be a good idea, cause I'm already quite fast in topdeck mode. Against aggressive decks I run run out of solutions before I can go into combo.

I'm thinking about adding Enlightened Tutor. Any suggestions?

1. Yes, that's why this deck still need to be improved. .
2. There's Lightning Bolt, Magma Jet, or Pyrokinesis maindeck if your meta just like mine (full of aggro), it'd be enough. .
3. No no, splashing is really not an option in this build. .

[Skeggi]

3. No no, splashing is really not an option in this build. .

I don't see why not; at least it's worth a shot.

[Raider Bob]

This deck has issues with MONO-Colored Decks(That are not Blue)

Goblins - Mono Red doesn't get shut down by Magus and can race with the best of them.

White Weenie - Mono White doesn't get shut down by Magus and can race with the best of them.

Eva Green - Is basically Mono-Black with a lot of Discard and some LD, this is probably the worst nightmare for this deck.

At the statement you can never find the Grindstone to win, Legend had a grindstone Win in 3 games in his 9 Matches at the last big tourny he ran this deck in. I am not surprised you went 2-3 with the matchups you faced, I think Legend runs Silent Arbitor to Slow down Goblins coupled with Trinsphere you can slow down Gobo's for awhile.

In a Meta Environment where Thresh, Icorid, Storm, Bad Mana Bases are all around this deck wins on the back of Magus of the Moon and Trinisphere, oh and do not underestimate the power of Jaya.

[moOnsteak]

^

Also Ali from Cairo (or Fortune Thief) helps you to not being crushed before you find all combo pieces (Grindstone everyone?). You just need to protect him/her beside the Painter with your 8 blast spell. .

Why splashing isn't available? Because this deck manabase can't allow that happen. .What do you expect to produce white mana? Plateau can't do that after Magus resolve (there's just 4 anyway, except you'd to run any red fetch or Sacred Foundry, ouchh), and basic Plain is a waste in full of mono red spell except for those white tutor (I'd run StP if I can solve that manabase problem). .Chrome Mox also don't provide any answer. .So it's a big NO. .

[Skeggi]

Chrome Mox also don't provide any answer. .So it's a big NO. .

Well actually, after Painter is in play, you can play Chrome Mox making blue mana, making Trinket Mage available...But I guess this is too far around. Perhaps this deck needs to find a way not to be moon-dependant and then you can also think about splashing a color.

I'm just saying, perhaps Imperial Painter isn't a mono-red deck. Here's a list I just did from the top of my head:

Disclaimer: the following list may be a complete waste of your time

4 Painter's Servant => obvious
4 Imperial Recruiter => obvious
1 Fulminator Mage/Jaya Ballard  => may be fun to tutor up?
1 Vexing Shusher   => may be needed to tutor up?
1 Trinket Mage      => obvious
1 Ali from Cairo     => could be your lifesaver
--+
12

3 Grindstone => obvious
2 SDT => may come in handy, tutorable by trinket mage
2 Crucible of Worlds => keeps your lands save
3 Crystal Shard => bounces recruiter and trinket mage
--+
10

4 Beseech the Queen => tutors land, or anything you need
4 REB => obvious
4 Pyroblast => obvious
--+
12

4 Metaslot Chrome Mox?
--+
38

1 Volrath's Stronghold => brings your nasties back :)
1 Academy Ruins => this too :)
3 Volcanic Island
3 Badlands
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Swamp
--+
22

Absolutely not saying this list will pwn, just throwing up a ball here, see if someone can juggle with it.

[DrewliusMaximus]

On the other hand, people also have no experience in playing against your deck. Being a Stax player myself, I'm hoping Chalice@1 will really screw you. Does it? Or do you have some card up your sleeve against it?

For Chalice, there are several guys to tutor for: Vexing Shusher, Goblin Tinkerer, Viashino Heretic, and if Servant is already out, Jaya will do the trick.

I've lost against:
* Eva Green
* Goblins
* White Weenie
I found out two things about that deck:
1. Discard is very bad news, especially if Extirpate is around. But even without Extirpate you will be slowed down extremely by discard effects.
2. I have always problems in finding that damn Grindstone if it's not in my starting hand. Mulliganing for it doesn't seems to be a good idea, cause I'm already quite fast in topdeck mode. Against aggressive decks I run run out of solutions before I can go into combo.
I'm thinking about adding Enlightened Tutor. Any suggestions?

I've decided to go with Magma Jets over Lightning Bolt because they provide resilience against discard, make it easier to find the Grindstone, and generally help you keep pace with the opponent (they also avoid Chalice). Unfortunately, Extirpate is a killer. The only thing I can think of right now is using Macabre on your own Servants/Grindstones in the graveyard if you had to. Hopefully Scarecrone from Eventide will help against discard (and to a lesser degree Extirpate).
Because the Magma Jets are less efficient removal than the Bolts, I took Legend's idea and put Pyrokinesis in the SB, which helps against alot of decks, especially Goblins. Also, Silent Arbiter in the SB would help against White Weenie and Goblins.
I'm still of the opinion that this deck should be mono-colored, but it's always worth it to test new stuff.

[Michael Keller]

I'm really disliking four Chrome Mox the more and more I play this deck. It promotes card disadvantage, and while it can allow you to play out a turn one Magus, I just don't think the deck really needs four. We already run 4 SSG and 8 double-lands, so there's no need to push the envelope here. More often than not, I hate ditching an important card in my opening hand to satisfy the Mox unless I really have to.

To fit the curve, I've ended the suspense with Magma Jet. It serves dual purpose by doing two damage and scrying, but really, it's all about the scrye. It doesn't kill an early Goyf as good as Bolt can and it's a one-shot deal. I've also restored the fourth Bolt instead of the fourth Chrome Mox. The deck runs off three to four lands, and I haven't seen any problems after the cut.

Another issue that came along is Fledgling Dragon. In testing, I actually did find that getting to Thresh can be a problem (as stated earlier). One of the cards that can give this deck problems is Nimble Mongoose with Thresh. You can always double-block, but I never feel comfortable doing that unless the situation calls for it. I've actually gone ahead and included one Dragon Whelp in the main. He has an ass of three and is a 2/3 Shivan (Recruiterable). I ended up liking him as a draw over the Fledgling Dragon in testing.

With this is mind, I went ahead and made these changes to the deck:

-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Fledgling Dragon
-3 Magma Jet

+1 Lightning Bolt
+1 Dragon Whelp
+3 Sensei's Divining Top

As far as the sideboard is concerned, this is currently the list I run:

[4x] Trinisphere
[4x] Pyrokinesis
[2x] Dragon Whelp
[2x] Viashino Heretic
[2x] Faerie Macabre
[1x] Vexing Shusher

My metagame is beginning to evolve into a more aggressive place to play, so I need to adapt accordingly. These changes have allowed me to improve my draws, play bombs, and ease up on the slight card disadvantage. I was considering adding fetches, but I don't really like them with City of Traitors and then Stifle. Things like that happen in larger events and keeping the red sources basic (and with Magus, your other lands become Mountains too) is important. They're obviously great with Top, but I don't know yet.

[Maveric78f]

In what this deck has been established?

Edit: sorry for the troll. I delete the second part of my question.

Trolling is frowned upon at the Source. Next time you will receive a warning.
-TOOL

[Michael Keller]

In what this deck has been established, except in losing on MWS?

I'll kindly answer the first half of your question:

It has placed highly in quite a few large-scale events in Europe, Asia, and America in a span of two months. See Here (not counting my 2nd place in a 49 person event).

Thank you.

Please don't backseat mod. Use the 'Report a Post' button in the future.
-TOOL

[Skeggi]

I'm still of the opinion that this deck should be mono-colored, but it's always worth it to test new stuff.

I'd like to come back on that. The deck should be mono-red. No splashes whatsoever. The changes Legend posted sound good to me, that should fix her up :)

[moOnsteak]

Instead of speaking this deck should be in established or development area, why don't we talk about a real improvement for this build and for who doesn't care, just sit off. .

I'd rather talk about how good Sensei will be or what's the clock beside of Jaya or how Scarecrone will affect this build. .

[Peter_Rotten]

Instead of speaking this deck should be in established or development area, why don't we talk about a real improvement for this build and for who doesn't care, just sit off.

I agree. Focus on improving the deck OR ignoring the deck.

[DrewliusMaximus]

I haven't been able to test as much as I'd like against Ichorid or The Rock. I think I have pretty good idea about how to sideboard against Ichorid, but I'm less sure about the Rock. I'd like to know how others sideboard in those 2 matchups.

[Michael Keller]

The sideboard against Ichorid is pretty decent. Most of the time, game one, you need to mulligan into combo or several Blast effects to counter Breakthrough, Deep Analysis flashback, and Careful Study. That buys you several turns and can ideally set you ahead until you win via combo.

Game two you serve up Trinisphere, Faerie, and Pyrokinesis. I've had relatively great success against Ichorid since playing the deck, and it pops up in my meta quite often.

Against The Rock, it's a dog-fight to start. Originally, before editing the deck, I was getting ravaged by creature kill and artifact hate. You need to fight fire with fire game one. It really comes down to who has better board position and if Magus is online shutting down all the supplemental color sources your opponent uses (for Deed, Grip, etc.). This is one of the reasons why I was considering adding Blood Moon to the side: To help shut down those sources and render a lot of relevant hate useless.

If your metagame calls for it, don't be hesitant to side out the Grindstones game two and three. The deck functions primarily off creatures with added effects and Grindstone is in this deck a surprise win factor. Adding creatures helps with the fight, which is why I have Dragon Whelp in my board. It's inherently better than Pit Dragon in this deck because you play like control - you don't want to dump your hand and then pay an inane amount of mana that you ideally don't have. Dragon Whelp already flies and pumps for red. What you must consider is that he is a smaller version of Shivan that is Imperial Recruiterable and that makes him a great fit.

[SouthAlly]

Alegend, I have noticed that you are putting more creatures in and downplaying the combo aspect. On its face, this seems to make the deck look more like Dragon Stompy. That can't be a good thing. Is the combo not working?

[Michael Keller]

Alegend, I have noticed that you are putting more creatures in and downplaying the combo aspect. On its face, this seems to make the deck look more like Dragon Stompy. That can't be a good thing. Is the combo not working?

This isn't a combo deck. The deck plays Grindstone as an alternate means of winning the game. The basis for which the deck plays is utilizing Painter's Servant to retroactively enhance every spell and ability in your deck into Counterspells and Vindicates to pave the way for an attack. The main list has hardly changed to resemble Dragon Stompy.

Imperial Painter does not include the following elements of Dragon Stompy:

- Trinisphere (sideboard option)
- Sulfur Elemental
- Rakdos, Pit Dragon
- Seething Song
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Gathan Raiders
- Arc Slogger
- Sword of Fire Ice
- Chalice of the Void

There is no comparison.