[Question 30] Eventide and Legacy

[Bardo]

So, the full Eventide spoiler is up and the set looks like shit for Legacy--much like Shadowmoor. Some of the cards look fun and all, but that's besides the point.

The only card that vaguely sticks out as borderline playable is Cold-Eyed Selkie, previewed in Doug Beyer's article today; but a 1/1 with a cool ability for 1{u/g}{u/g} isn't an easy sell.


Otherwise...

What do you see in this set and and what can be salvaged from Eventide to make existing Legacy decks better, fill holes or spawn new decks?

[Illissius]

This is pretty much what I posted in the other thread, but -

Glen Elendra Archmage - Could be strong in Faerie Stompy against control decks, or combo if you live that long. Could be strong in other decks but I'm having trouble thinking of any willing to pay the .

Wake Thrasher - Could be a very solid creature to beat down with in Merfolk, maybe Faerie Stompy, maybe other aggressive decks with blue in them. Dying to a Fanatic or Jitte counter limits its appeal. It's also an infinite power combo with Seeker of Skybreak which is also a creature, so that could maybe have applications in Survival.

Nettle Sentinel - Might be a good choice in howevermany-land Stompy, perhaps Elves.

Talara's Battalion - Again with Elves and Stompy. I wonder if you could do a decent build of Elves with Vanquisher and this guy which doesn't rely on swarms so much as individual fat men.

Wicker-Bough Elder - Any decks which play Indrik Stomphowler can now play this. That means Elephant Stompy, Survival decks which don't use white, and I'm not sure what else.

Divinity of Pride - Any deck with white in it would probably prefer Exalted Angel, but this could be a great fit for MBC, especially with all the cards black decks like to play which lose them life. Black hasn't really had a decent lifelink creature before this.

Quillspike - Another infinite combo for Survival decks, with Devoted Druid this time. I'll have to calculate the effective mana costs for this one, the previous one, and the Crypt Champion one, taking into account the necessary Incarnations and such.

Worm Harvest - I've started a thread about this one.

Cold-Eyed Selkie - For one thing, another card for Merfolk. The trouble with Merfolk is there's something like 60 nonland cards and 20 nonbasic lands you want to play in the deck, and which ~40 and ~8 are better than the rest is not nearly as obvious as with an established deck like Goblins. It's well possible that there's multiple configurations of Merfolk which play quite differently yet are similarly good -- and it's also not yet clear whether any of them can clear the threshold of viability.

Back to Selkie, it has two things over Ophidian -- Islandwalk and translating pump into draws. Over Shadowmage Infiltrator it only has the latter. So if it's going to see play, it'll be because of that second ability. The best and easiest combos with it so far are Pendelhaven and the Merfolk lords.

Hybrid lands - Obviously enough these make it easier to play, say, and costs in the same deck -- the question is whether there's any decks where you want to do that, and in that case whether the hybrid lands are enough. The black ones are especially intriguing, because then you also get to use Urborg.

[Pinder]

Flickerwisp - The lack of Flash probably kills this guy, but for a 3/1 flyer isn't bad, and neither is the slide ability. I'm not sure if this would fit into an existing deck (maybe D&T?), but it looks decent.

Light from Within - With all the "insert keyword ability here" dudes for White Weenie, I could see this being played. Of course, no one plays Crusade or Glorious Anthem (or White Weenie, for that matter), but it seems pretty efficiently costed.

Glen Elandra Archmage - The fact that this guy has Persist is awesome. The fact that he costs is not awesome. But we'll see.

Wake Thrasher - Between just regular land tapping to play stuff, and all the wacky tap/untap stuff Merfolk have gotten recently, this could see play in a Merfolk build. Ass of 1 is not great, but with 8 Lords maindeck that might not be too bad.

Ashling The Extinguisher - A 4/4 for 4 mana is decent, and whenever she hits your opponent she nukes a dude (even if he's indestructable or regenerates!). Legendary is not so hot, but you can't have it all, can you?

Necroskitter - With an ass of 4 for , this guy isn't going anywhere without a fight. Add wither, and you have a nice blocker which puts -1/-1 counters on Goyf or whatever so when you remove them, you get them. Not sure where it would fit (MBC), but definitely seems powerful.

Raven's Crime - This is never going to be a 4-of, but Retrace on a discard spell is sexy enough to through it in decks as an Intuition target with Loam or something.

Puncture Blast - It's no Lightning Bolt, but I could see it maybe coming out of the side in some decks to make Goyfs permanently smaller, or to downsize other larger threats.

Stigma Lasher - I don't really need to explain this, do I? Super efficiently costed with a neato (albeit, maybe not the most useful) ability.

Helix Pinnacle - Okay, so this probably won't get played seriously ever. But I want it to. So badly.

Nettle Sentinel - Good for whatever-land stompy, and maybe other decks which play green spells and appreciate cheap beaters.

Primalcrux - This thing is always going to be a 6/6 for 6, and will probably be much larger in most cases (especially if you accelerate him out with cheap mana dudes). Add trample and -voila!- a sweet beater. Of course, sixtuple green in the cost might be a tad prohibitive. This guy's definitely going to need a deck built around him.

Talara's Battalion - Amazing body for it's cost (with Trample!), and with minimal hoop-jumping. All around a solid card.

Twinblade Slasher - Basking Rootwalla - Madness + Wither. I could see this card being good.

Wicker Bough Elder - This guy's sort of low on the power level scale, but he might replace Stomphowler in some Survival builds. Being able to drop him and kill an artifact later is nice, too.

Cauldron Haze - Cheap way around Wrath. That's gotta count for something.

Divinity of Pride - I said this in the other thread, but I think this guy could be nuts in some sort of MBC. Of course, that's not saying a whole lot.

Creakwood Leige - +2/+2 to all your BG guys and a free Call of the Herd each turn? Sounds pretty sweet. 4 mana 2/2 isn't as sweet, but I still think this guy will find a home somewhere.

Quillspike - Infy combo with Devoted Druid. Not that that's terribly great, but it might find a home somewhere.

Cold-Eyed Selkie - There's already enough discussion going on about this guy. Easily the most promising card in the set.

Overbeing of Myth - A Maro that provides sweet, delicious card advantage, which is pretty awesome. The cost is really prohibitive, though, which means it will probably only see play in a limited number of decks.

Honorable Mentions - Cards that would have been good if they didn't suck

Oona's Grace - Everyone was excited when we got a instant-speed cantrip with Retrace. Everyone cried when it costed 3.

Needle Specter - Some might argue that he actually is good, but he's never going to be better than Hyppie unless those discards are random, son.

Soul Reap - Non-green? Non-GREEN? NON-MOTHERFUCKING GREEN??!?!?!!?!

Flame Jab - This card needs to deal more than 1 damage. We don't need 3. We'd settle for 2, even. But not 1. Fuck you, Wizards.

Monstrify - A pump spell with Retrace is totally awesome. Except when it costs 4 and is sorcery speed.

Edge of the Divinity - Holy Strength + Unholy Strength in one card is nice, but neither of those are playable in Legacy, and there aren't enough good BW dudes to make this a 1 mana +3/+3

[MattH]

Endless Horizons: could be played somewhere, sometime (Belcher?). Long shot though.

Cache Raiders: if it were four mana for 3/3, maybe it could play Tradewind on your own CIP guys, but this is too much. I'd rather use that 3/3 flying white flickering guy from Lorwyn, and I'd rather use neither than that.

Wake Thrasher: for merfolk only. Skywhatever guy didn't work with Mesmeric Orb+having a Blessing in your deck, and that was a lot more robust than this doofus combo.

Crumbling Ashes: the price is right (1B one-way Abyss is some good!), but I don't think we've seen a strong enough way to start handing out -1/-1 counters. Pseudo-combo with Necroskitter, but that feels like a block thing, not even good enough for Standard.

Nightmare Incursion: could be a bullet for either an MBC sort of deck, or a blue Urborg deck like that Teachings deck from Standard.

Cinder Pyromancer: I keep waiting for a heavy-red Survival deck to exist. I got some good ideas for it, there just aren't enough decent guys. This might warrant a look if and when that happens, but it's probably not as good as just going with Sharpshooter. Fun with a Gelectrode casual deck.

Flame Jab: Actually, this could be a SB card for burn decks. Unlikely, but possible!

Hotheaded Giant: maybe in that Empty the Slogger deck, heh!

Stigma Lasher: Maybe? Mayyybe?

Bloom Tender: unlikely, but it's strong acceleration if you can get it to work. Pseudo-Rofellos effect.

Talara's Battalion: goes in stompy. enjoy this sentence, brought to you by the Legacy Adepts!

Wicker treefolk: whatever, obvious.

Dominus of Fealty is neat with sac outlets like Claws of Gix. Again, not a Legacy thing, but it's still Standard legal for awhile!

Shrewd Hatchling: contender for Fledgling Dragon's spot in UGR Threshold, another cute thing for Empty the Slogger? The UG one too.

Duergar Hedge-Mage: why oh why couldn't this have been red and green instead? It would have probably replaced Harmonic Sliver in my survival decks! As it is, it's worthless.

Spitemare: is there an infinite combo here? I suppose not or we'd be playing it with Mogg Maniac.

Overbeing of Myth: not in blue. Green could use it, but Aeon Chronicler is almost certainly better.

Shorecrasher Mimic: Of all the enemy-pairs, GU probably has the most attractive gold cards, from Invasion and Ravnica blocks. That said, I still don't think this is good enough, but only because there's not yet enough to trigger it. Give Magic another decade to print more UG spells, and then we'll talk.

The way to make the Mimics playable in Legacy, incidentally, would be to reword them: "If you've played a green spell and a blue spell this turn, until end of turn ~this~ is 5/3 and has trample" so you could turn them on with either a hybrid/gold card OR by playing a Brainstorm into a Bolt (or whatever).

Ward of Bones: theoretical prison component.

SO, to sum up: no, it's pretty much all narrow utility cards and casual stuff. Someday Shorecrasher Mimic might be playable.

[Bardo]

I printed and poured through the entire spoiler about 2 hours ago and I have this to say: wow, what a shitty set for Legacy. Awful. Maybe its fine for Standard--I don't know.

Cards I put an "*" or "?" by:

* Endless Horizons: I don't know where, I don't know how, but this is has some interesting potential.

* Divinity of Pride: Awesome potential in Elder Dragon Highlander (since you start at 40 life). An 8/8 Flying, Spirit Link beast for 5 is really good. May get nerfed in EDH so that the abilities and +4/+4 trigger at 50 life. Time may tell.

* Mirror Sheen: A cool, reusable Fork/Twincast. I love it.

(* Moonhold: Thank go this costs 3 and not 2 (would likely bust Isochron Scepter).)

* Cold-eyed Selkie: Not sure. A 1/1 for 3 mana is not exactly a "good deal"--even with one great ability supported by a meh ability that makes the great ability even greater. Given the cost and fragility I don't see anyone talk about this card seriously 12-months from now.

That's all that sticks out to me. Set seems like rubbish for Legacy.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Endless Horizons- Might see play in some sort of MWC-Combo deck. But not til they ban Painter's Servant.

Hallowed Burial- Meeeeeeh. Not right now. But maybe down the road, if the metagame takes a more mid-range turn.

Light from Within- It's possible. It'd be a great 1-of in Wayfarer White Weenie. Do people even remember that deck?

Recumbrent Bliss- I think this is going to be a powerful sleeper card for Constructed. I doubt it'll reach as far as Legacy, but it's remotely possible.

Oona's Grace- I suppose this might possible be a one-of in Solidarity. If Dave was high at the time, especially.

Wakethrasher- Ummm, yeah, this is going to see play. It's a 4/4+ beater for itself in a Goblins that has Force and 8 effective Lords. It can't defend efficiently, but neither could Piledriver. Shit, stock up on Tidal Couriers, son.

Ashling the Extinguisher- Maybe in Extended.

Nightmare Incursion- Also maybe in Extended.

Ravens' Crime- Possible in a Loam Deck.

Flame Jab- An automatic one-of at least in Aggro-Loam.

Stigma Lasher- No.

Helix Pinacle- No. See Epic Struggle for details.

Nettle Sentinel- Stompy isn't held back by a lack of 2-power one drops. Pass.

Talara's Batallion- Free tip; This card is awful.

Divinity of Pride- Maybe. It's big and powerful for a relatively fair price. But it lacks significant protection. Probably beats the shit out of Exalted Angel though.

Stillmoon Cavalier- Maybe in another metagame, where Pro-Green wouldn't be much better.

Call the Skybreaker- Actually, I think this card has some potential. I'm not sure just in what yet, but potential.

Creakwood Liege- It might see play in Doran-based midrange decks. It's very powerful.

Worm Harvest- Also at least a one-of in Loam-based decks everywhere.

Duergar Hedge Mage- Could see play in either color, although it'd obviously be stronger in one that ran both. Maybe maindeckable in some sorta mid-range Zoo deck.

Figure of Destiny- I think this card is very strong. I'm not sure how much it'll impact in Legacy, but I expect it to make a splash in Standard and Extended, and probably spill over a bit.

Hearthfire Hobgoblin- Maybe in Garv.dec or something.

Cold-Eyed Selkie- I doubt it.

Murkfiend Liege- Well, if anyone still played ATS, this would beat the ever-loving shit out of Seedborn Muse.

Selkie Hedge-Mage- This would also be a decent one-of in ATS for defense purposes. Bounce an attacker and gain three, plus provide a 2/2 blocker to slow down the offense.

Scarecrone- No.

Ward of Bones- Might see some play in some sorta Welder or Wildfire/Artifact Mana deck, actually. But most likely not.

Filter Lands- Probably shouldn't see play in Legacy, but that doesn't mean they won't.

[Tacosnape]

Eventide sucks, no doubt about it, and so far there's only two cards in it I'll be going out and getting.

IMHO, here are the extent of possibly relevant cards to the format.

White

Endless Horizons: Card #1 I'll be getting. Love this card. Not a Mana Severance substitute, because nobody plays Mana Severance. What's really neat about Endless Horizons is that not only can you get free Plateaus, Tundras, Savannahs, and Scrublands every turn, you can also guarantee you won't topdeck useless lands at any point for the rest of the game. It fits very nicely in a project deck I've been working on where Eternal Dragon didn't quite belong.

Spirit of the Hearth: A possible sideboard card for Reanimator decks against other combo decks. Although one could argue that they made that card already and named it Last Rites. And that nobody plays Reanimator.

Blue

Glen Elendra Archmage: Persist makes the card's ability pretty neat. The curve will likely keep it out of all but a few decks.

Black

Nightmare Incursion: Black Control decks might like one or two of these guys. But probably not.

Raven's Crime: Life From The Loam says you never keep another card in your hand. Loam-Pox builds with The Rack might try this guy out.

Red

Stigma Lasher: Some red deck is going to use this guy in a sideboard at some point in the distant universe to deal with annoying things like Kitchen Finks and Umezawa's Jitte and Exalted Angel and whatever. They probably shouldn't, but they will anyway.

Green

Helix Pinnacle: Nauseatingly gimmicky and not necessarily as awful as you think. Protection from Krosan Grip is a neat ability, but Pithing Needle wrecks it. The problem is that most decks that could play defense long enough to use it have better kill conditions (Enchantress) or run Pernicious Deed (Landstill, BG Control variants).

Talara's Batallion: Possibly good in an elf deck. The problem is, in order to play Talara's Batallion, you have to be playing an elf deck. Maybe that weird Elf/Trinisphere deck from Worlds will like this. If people forget Flash is banned.

Wicker-Bough Elder: Card #2 I'll be getting. In my opinion, the best Legacy card in the entire set. Any Survival variants still running an Indrik Stomphowler should run him instead. He can come out as a body for less mana, and he can kill a Pernicious Deed where if Stomphowler tries to do so, you'll find yourself eating your own Survival. He's debatably more playable than Harmonic Sliver.

Hybrid

Beckon Apparition: It's mono-white targeted graveyard removal, for whatever that's worth.

Inside Out: Overlooked. Remember the En-Kor / Spiritualist-Force combo deck from a longass time ago that ran Transmutation? It can now be built as White-Blue with countermagic and cantrips and possibly even Counterbalance. Not exactly terrifying, but moderately interesting.

Sapling of Colfenor: This makes my head hurt. It's indestructible, can give you Tarmogoyfs while gaining you life, and give you Dorans while gaining you five life. And I honestly have no idea if it's any good or not. Probably not for five mana, but I could easily be wrong.

Duergar Hedge-Mage: Amazing as fuckballs, but there's no deck for him. One might start to exist for Hull Breach on a stick, though.

Hearthfire Hobgoblin: 3 for a 2/2 Double Striker is good. Like the guy above, though, there's no deck for him yet, as he doesn't quite click with Vial Goblins.

Cold-Eyed Selkie: Anyone recall me saying Mogg Fanatic was the best red creature in Legacy several months back? I still stand by that statement. (What? Go away, Magus of the Moon.) Selkie will get tried but won't make the cut.

[Nihil Credo]

Underlined is what has serious chances of seeing play. You'll notice there are few, and mostly either in underplayed decks or in niche roles.

Hybrid lands: #4 in the list after the original duals, fetches, and shocklands. If the fetches ever become a liability for whatever reason, we might see a few of these around, otherwise, let's not bother.

Figure of Destiny: In terms of sheer power level, it's not unplayable. Can't think of a deck that might want it, though, as it's a huge investment for a dumb beater.

Slippery Bogle: Cheapest troll-shroud creature ever printed. Silhana Ledgewalker is pretty nutty in Berserk Stompy, so at half mana but without evasion this is probably at least worth testing.

Raven's Crime: I've already faced it on MWS a few times, and it's just as disappointing as I expected. In the early game you'll be thankful that your opponent is throwing mana away on this, and later on it's as unreliable as any discard spell. I guess it will scare MUC, but for general purposes a single Duress or Thoughtseize is worth three or four Raven's Crimes.

Nettle Sentinel: Steps in front of Slippery Bogle for testing in X-land Stompy.

Helix Pinnacle: LOL. No.

Rise of the Hobgoblins: It's DoJ after you take away everything that makes it a good card.

Inside Out: Breakfast/Life.dec kill condition and Goyf mirror winner that pitches to FoW and easily cantrips when dead? I almost believe it. Almost.

Soulreap: Of course a block with Persist is when the Death Rattle mechanic is most needed! /sarcasm

Talara's Battalion: I expect that Manamorphose and T1 Dude, T2 Pump won't be enough to make this playable in X-land Stompy. The drawback is actually much worse than Nettle Sentinel's.

Indigo Faerie: Unplayable, but am I the only one who was picturing a lesbian rocker faerie?

Stigma Lasher: Worse than Sulfuric Vortex.

Unmake: Not enough recursive creatures to make it worth playing.

Restless Apparition: I wouldn't dismiss this one at all. Decks like Eva Green like their Shades to be faster and cheaper, but in something like Rockguy (which also has more mana) the Persist might very well make it worth running.
Also, it's the best offensive three-drop mono-white has had in a while, but that assumes there was any interest in a mono-white offensive three-drop. Death and Taxes should just splash for Goyf in that case.

Wistful Selkie: Less terrible than it looks. A Merfolk deck packing 4 Silvergill Adepts and 4 Wistful Selkies can put down some serious board presence while giving up very few cards, and it's a direction worth exploring.

Stillmoon Cavalier: White has better guys, and for black decks there's little difference between being black and having pro:black (exception: Tombstalker).

Cold-Eye Selkie: Call me crazy, but after a few games with both I actually like Wistful Selkie better. This one *might* draw you more cards, but giving up size doesn't look like an awesome trade.

Soot Imp: Sorry, Pyrostatic Pillar sucks already.

Duergar Hedge-Mage: A hugely improved Harmonic Sliver in the wrong colours. Keep it in a corner of your mind.

Quillspike: Better than Painter combo in that both pieces are creatures, one is kinda useful and it's overall less expensive; worse in that neither is an artifact, and there's a significant difference between having a HUGE/HUGE creature and winning. Just ask Phyrexian Dreadnought.

Wake Thrasher:I tried it and it seems to live up to the hype. But side it out against red decks.

Oona's Grace: No, that's not what Solidarity needs.

Scarecrone: It's easier to splash for Goblin Welder.

The Lieges: All too expensive. Though if anyone rebuilds ATS, the U/G one should probably replace Seedborn Muse.

Canker Abomination: Elephant Stompy has better options at four mana, but Demon Stompy doesn't.

Ashling the Extinguisher: 4/4 doesn't rule the combat phase, Ms. Awfulflavourtext.

Rekindled Flame: I'd have tried it out at 5 damage. Too little as is.

Light from Within: Not what White Weenie needed.

The Hatchlings: Shroud-guy seems the most promising, but U/G has better monsters. Lifelink-guy is a close second, but we'd need more W/B cantrips/buybacks/whatever.

Wickerbough Elder: Probably better than Indrik Stomphowler, but I won't lose sleep over such an improvement.

Hotheaded Giant: I'm going to give a try at Empty the Slogger 2008 one of these days. But when I do, it'll be hard to make room at the four-mana slot, especially for something that's merely decent.

Glen Elendra Archmage: Faerie Stompy should definitely like this as sweeper protection.

Endless Horizons: Halfway between Eternal Dragon and Mana Severance, you'd have to play Goblin Charbelcher in a white-basedd control shell to even consider this. But then, you've got better kill tools than Charbelcher.

The Gods: U/G and B/G are decent, but suffer from stiff competition. W/B might actually replace, say, Korlash in IBA-style decks - it still survives Pernicious Deed by costing five.

Worm Harvest: I don't see it as strong enough to be maindecked; more likely, it'll be a sideboard option for 43 Lands (since it doesn't usually have problems with control decks preboard), and *maybe* for Aggro Loam as well, but that one's tougher because of a) very tight sideboard and b) if they let you resolve Burning Wish, you can probably resolve Last Rites or Devastating Dreams.

Thunderblust: I like this, but I'd have to find a deck with the same curve as Dragon Stompy yet that was not Dragon Stompy. Tough.

Evershrike: The X condemns it to Johnny-land.

Sapling of Colfenor: Hello, StP.

Savage Conception: I'd rather have Garruk.

Cache Raiders: Blue has its Stampeding Wildebeests, and they suck just as much.

Hallowed Burial: See Unmake.

Archon of Justice: Trigger on the wrong side.

Chaotic Backlash: Should have counted Plains and Islands too.

Spirit of the Hearth: Not sure it's better than Platinum Angel. Sure it dies to Shattering Spree, but at least *I* won't die to Empty the Warrens, and it does something against other decks. Probably better if you're running Blazing Archon.

Nightmare Incursion: More conditional than Haunting Echoes, and less powerful in all but a few cases.

Primalcrux: Best six-mana dumb fattie ever. But still a six-mana dumb fattie.

Call the Skybreaker: I'd have a boner if this were an instant.