[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[landstill101]

Moat isn't worth it, IMO. Every deck has an answer for it via fliers or MD artifact/enchantment removal. Oblivion Ring is much better.

Moat is deffinitly worth it, against goblins its game especially game one and game 2 and 3, just play a sterling grove and your fine plus you have replenish.

Against threshold, they really don't have much to counter it and with the same strat above its really the same for almost every deck in the format that runs creatures other than farie stompy. Just run runed halo to stop their flyers. It works for me no problem and it actually forces them to dig just to get rid of it which gives your more than enough time to kill them.

[Jaiminho]

Moat is deffinitly worth it, against goblins its game especially game one and game 2 and 3, just play a sterling grove and your fine plus you have replenish.

Against threshold, they really don't have much to counter it and with the same strat above its really the same for almost every deck in the format that runs creatures other than farie stompy. Just run runed halo to stop their flyers. It works for me no problem and it actually forces them to dig just to get rid of it which gives your more than enough time to kill them.

What's the difference from Moat to Elephant Grass against whichever deck? Running a singleton Moat is probably not going to give you a Grove + Moat lock early enough to be safe. No one can most likely ever kill you by turn 4 using creatures (save ETW), so you can simply lock them on Confinement after slowing them down with Grass.

No one's saying Moat is useless. It's simply not worth it.

[GreenOne]

What's the difference from Moat to Elephant Grass against whichever deck? Running a singleton Moat is probably not going to give you a Grove + Moat lock early enough to be safe. No one can most likely ever kill you by turn 4 using creatures (save ETW), so you can simply lock them on Confinement after slowing them down with Grass.

Goblins is going to kill you turn 4 using creatures. Solitary confinament happens to work only if you have a couple of Enchantress effects out. This is not gonna work against counter decks.

Let's see what's strong against, and the solutions to it the DTB forum decks have (other than ench removal, which hits any other replacement to it)

Strong against:
Goblins - Siege Gang Commander.
Ichorid - Faster clock and 4 narcomoebas.
Dreadstill - Nothing.
Threshold - Usually nothing. It may have Tombstalker, Enforcer and burn.
Aggro Loam - Seismic Assault
The Rock - Nothing
Survival - Nothing
Landstill - It can only stop Manlands and Goyfs under a standstill. Not huge.

Moat is also un-counterbalanceable and it usually wrecks the opponent board too if deeded.

Confinament without 2 enchantress effects (or 1 if you're really lucky) is just a fog effect, where moat shines. It also let's you draw 2 more cards a turn.
I find moat overall good, and in fact, I play it in 2x.

[Brehn]

I'd like to add:

- Resolving or replenishing Moat + Karmic Justice always leads to a win against 4c (Goyf) Landstill game 1. Resolving Moat alone often stalls enough to stabilize after they've countered / removed your first 2-4 Enchantress effects.
- Standard Dreadstill builds scoop to Moat game 1.
- Against Tempo Thresh it usually hits fast enough (>7 life), so it stalls enough to set up Confinement without getting burnt down.

What's the difference from Moat to Elephant Grass against whichever deck?

Elephant Grass is not a must-counter for UGr Threshold.
Elephant Grass is not a must-counter for UGb Threshold
Elephant Grass is not a must-counter for 4c Landstill.
Elephant Grass is not a must-counter for Dreadstill.
Elephant Grass does not reduce Dragon Stompy's Threat Density to "8 in the whole deck".
Elephant Grass lets Goblins swing for at least 5 damage per round. Unless they're manascrewed.
Elephant Grass requires an upkeep cost, making it less efficient as a "pseudo-fog" that is played to set up Confinement.

But, why are you comparing Moat to Elephant Grass anyway? Usually, lists with Moat also play 4 Grass.

[GreenOne]

But, why are you comparing Moat to Elephant Grass anyway? Usually, lists with Moat also play 4 Grass.

Yeah, the closest comparison to Moat is confinament (excluding Island Sanctuary). Confinament is surely better against combo (but we won't win that game anyway), where moat is usually a must counter even without Enchantresses out.

The good thing about Moat is that instantly nullyfies from 8 to 20 cards (well, about 27 in goblins) in almost every deck, creating a huge amount of virtual card advantage on your side.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I'd like to add:

- Resolving or replenishing Moat + Karmic Justice always leads to a win against 4c (Goyf) Landstill game 1. Resolving Moat alone often stalls enough to stabilize after they've countered / removed your first 2-4 Enchantress effects.

Replenishing Karmic Justice and, oh, I don't know, Pyromancy, would pretty much always be game against Landstill.

a) Karmic Justice
b) You resolved Replenish.

Moat is almost entirely irrelevant in that scenario. If you're resolving Replenish against control and losing, something is wrong.

Elephant Grass is not a must-counter for 4c Landstill.

Neither is Moat. 4c always has some sweeper that can hit Moat, if not Wish.

Elephant Grass is not a must-counter for Dreadstill.

However, Moat is 4cc, double white against a deck with Daze and Wasteland and Stifle.

Elephant Grass does not reduce Dragon Stompy's Threat Density to "8 in the whole deck".
Elephant Grass lets Goblins swing for at least 5 damage per round. Unless they're manascrewed.

a) Who cares? You beat both these decks anyway.
b) BS about Goblins. 5 damage per round is the MOST they're going to be doing. Very rarely do they ramp up to 6 mana before they've lost, and attacking for 5 (requiring both a Piledriver and a Warchief/Ringleader/SGC) ties up all their mana, leaving them with only a Vial at most.

If you play Elephant Grass against Goblins and lose, it's because you did something wrong.

Elephant Grass requires an upkeep cost, making it less efficient as a "pseudo-fog" that is played to set up Confinement.

But, why are you comparing Moat to Elephant Grass anyway? Usually, lists with Moat also play 4 Grass.

I think we're debating the necessity of running Moat at all.

The bottom line is that against most decks, Grass and Confinement are enough. Against most others, O Ring and/or Halo and/or Mesa can back you up enough.

Moat shines mostly against Threshold. Unless your deck is predominantly Threshold, I don't really think it's worth it.

[Brehn]

Replenishing Karmic Justice and, oh, I don't know, Pyromancy, would pretty much always be game against Landstill.

a) Karmic Justice
b) You resolved Replenish.

Moat is almost entirely irrelevant in that scenario. If you're resolving Replenish against control and losing, something is wrong.

I've also talked about resolving Moat and Justice. Replenish doesn't have to be involved in this. Also, when did you notice that Karmic Justice is good against Landstill?

Any Landstill player who counters a Justice when you don't have anything worth destroying is a bad player. Plays that beat bad players are not worth arguing about.

(Not countering Karmic Justice is always wrong because it only leaves you with Counterspells and Forces to combat opposing threats. Like Moat.)

Neither is Moat. 4c always has some sweeper that can hit Moat, if not Wish.

Great. If they don't counter it, they have to sweep it, possibly taking out Goyfs they've played. Sweeper count in opponent's deck reduced by one. Suboptimal cards like Oblivion Ring or Elephant Grass don't draw a sweeper from your opponent's deck, since they're not too relevant.


Dreadstill:

However, Moat is 4cc, double white against a deck with Daze and Wasteland and Stifle.

I thought we're playing a stable manabase.
And not-4cc cards can get hit by Counterbalance. Out of the last 5 games I've won against Dreadstill, 4 were won with Moat. I won three of them, because I've cast Moat / Replenish->Moat with Balance/Top on the table and 1cc+2cc+3cc on top. 5 games =/= representative testing, but still... makes me think, Moat might improve the matchup just a tiny bit.
Note: Oblivion Ring can be stifled.

b) BS about Goblins. 5 damage per round is the MOST they're going to be doing. Very rarely do they ramp up to 6 mana before they've lost, and attacking for 5 (requiring both a Piledriver and a Warchief/Ringleader/SGC) ties up all their mana, leaving them with only a Vial at most.

Wait. WTF are you talking about with "6 mana"?
And WTF is difficult about getting Piledriver/Wort + Warchief/Ringleader/SGC by turn 4/5?
And W(hy)TF do they care about "ooohhh, Grass ties up my mana" when they can swing for 5 each turn?

Sure, the matchup against Goblins is still positive, if you're not playing Moat. But.... srsly, your arguments are complete nonsense.

Moat shines mostly against Threshold. Unless your deck is predominantly Threshold, I don't really think it's worth it.

Every meta has Threshold in it, and Threshold is not the easiest matchup. Also, you can't deny the fact that Moat improves other matchups:
- Goblins (I know it's good without Moat)
- Dragon Stompy (I know it's good without Moat)
- Ichorid (I know it's good without Moat)
And, unless I'm completely wrong for some reason and all my testing matches are irrelevant, Moat also improves these matchups:
- 4c Landstill
- Dreadstill
That makes me wonder why one would consider cutting Moat (I haven't even mentioned every deck Moat is good against). I'd like to remind everybody of this:

One question you should always ask yourself when designing a list is: You keep a hand with one Enchantress effect. Your opponent forces the Enchantress and plays a 4/5 Goyf. Can you still win this game? What if Goyf is 5/6?

In my opinion, this leads to an inclusion of Moat.

The bottom line is that against most decks, Grass and Confinement are enough. Against most others, O Ring and/or Halo and/or Mesa can back you up enough.

Hm. Some pages earlier you were constantly arguing against playing Oblivion Ring and Sacred Mesa. Have you changed your mind? Any chances that I could see an updated list?

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I've also talked about resolving Moat and Justice. Replenish doesn't have to be involved in this. Also, when did you notice that Karmic Justice is good against Landstill?





(Not countering Karmic Justice is always wrong because it only leaves you with Counterspells and Forces to combat opposing threats. Like Moat.)

No, that's still untrue. Maybe it was true back when they had slower clocks(probably not, but maybe), but against a Goyf, if they save their counters for the real threats, Justice won't change the equation that much.

Justice is good IF you have other threats out, because it acts as insurance against their only out at that point; sweepers. But it doesn't act as a stand alone threat and never has.

Great. If they don't counter it, they have to sweep it, possibly taking out Goyfs they've played. Sweeper count in opponent's deck reduced by one. Suboptimal cards like Oblivion Ring or Elephant Grass don't draw a sweeper from your opponent's deck, since they're not too relevant.

They also don't cost 4 mana, double white.

I thought we're playing a stable manabase.
And not-4cc cards can get hit by Counterbalance. Out of the last 5 games I've won against Dreadstill, 4 were won with Moat. I won three of them, because I've cast Moat / Replenish->Moat with Balance/Top on the table and 1cc+2cc+3cc on top. 5 games =/= representative testing, but still... makes me think, Moat might improve the matchup just a tiny bit.
Note: Oblivion Ring can be stifled.

Note: I'm not actually advocating O. Ring.

In fact, I'll recant on that sub-point. I would rather run Moat than O. Ring, but I'd rather run neither, unless I knew the meta-game was mostly Thresh.

Wait. WTF are you talking about with "6 mana"?

The amount of mana it takes to do more than 5 damage a turn with an Elephant Grass out.

And WTF is difficult about getting Piledriver/Wort + Warchief/Ringleader/SGC by turn 4/5?

The fact that Elephant Grass can start turn 2.

And W(hy)TF do they care about "ooohhh, Grass ties up my mana" when they can swing for 5 each turn?

Ok, go on record first. Say that Elephant Grass isn't amazing against Goblins, and then I'll respond.

That makes me wonder why one would consider cutting Moat (I haven't even mentioned every deck Moat is good against). I'd like to remind everybody of this:

One question you should always ask yourself when designing a list is: You keep a hand with one Enchantress effect. Your opponent forces the Enchantress and plays a 4/5 Goyf. Can you still win this game? What if Goyf is 5/6?

In my opinion, this leads to an inclusion of Moat.

In that scenario they have (likely) two more turns to dig for answers or a fat flyer. One more theoretical must-counter is nice, but is it worth its investment over all?

In other match-ups;

Goblins - Contrary to the opinions of some, it's basically irrelevant in this match-up. They can't disrupt your engine, and can't deal with Elephant Grass until late game. They can't deal with Confinement at all. The only situation where it matters is where you have to set up an early Confinement, and then it's a hinderance, as its high cc is going to be dangerous if that turns into your only enchantment.

Note also that late game, when Elephant Grass stops being as effective, SGC and Fanatic will often be enough to finish you anyway, if your main Confinement plan has fallen through for some reason.

Ichorid - If you made it to the point where you can cast it and you didn't draw any quicker, more relevant cards, I guess it'll win you the game. How often will that happen though?

Loam - This match is about drawing lots of cards and playing Ground Seals. 4 mana enchantments just slow you down.

Black-based aggro control - 4 mana spells absolutely must win the game here. Replenish always wins, and is only one white. That double white is felt especially in these match-ups, as Utopia Sprawl'd lands have the unpleasant habit of being Sinkholed and Vindicated. Moat only sometimes wins. It stops neither Hyppy, nor Tombstalker.

X Stompy - Look, they have flyers. I don't care if it's "only" 8. That seems like a lot when a SoFI'd Dragon is staring across the board from me and I'm sitting on a Moat.

Moat is supposed to be a defensive card. At 4 mana, it had better win games. Against most decks, it doesn't. There are some match-ups where it does, and it's a good SB option, and in certain narrow meta-games, it may be MD material.

Most of the time, however, it's an inefficient use of a slot.

Hm. Some pages earlier you were constantly arguing against playing Oblivion Ring and Sacred Mesa. Have you changed your mind? Any chances that I could see an updated list?

I wasn't arguing against Mesa per se. In some meta-games, running Mesa as a backup may be preferable. Generally, I think it's unnecessary; people are just uncomfortable with the idea of losing to Extract.

[Jaiminho]

But, why are you comparing Moat to Elephant Grass anyway? Usually, lists with Moat also play 4 Grass.

I'm not comparing. I'm simply saying the deck doesn't need Moat. Given that you have Moat as a singleton (GreenOne has 2 of it, but anyway...), you will have to fetch it with Grove. Then, since you run virtually 5 Moats, 7 Confinements, 8 Grasses and 5+ Whatevers, I can only see Moat being worth its high 4 mana cost when you actually have all that mana to spend and anything else is a worst answer.

Anyway, Spatula said it all.

[GreenOne]

Goblins - Contrary to the opinions of some, it's basically irrelevant in this match-up. They can't disrupt your engine, and can't deal with Elephant Grass until late game. They can't deal with Confinement at all. The only situation where it matters is where you have to set up an early Confinement, and then it's a hinderance, as its high cc is going to be dangerous if that turns into your only enchantment.

False. They got Warren Weirding to fuck your Argothians.

Your hand is Argothian+Utopia+Grass+Confinament+2lands+1white land

The opponent plays lackey turn 1. you play land+aura and pass. He attacks you and drop Piledriver + warchief/matron/whatever.
You play argothian+Grass, he plays Weirding and you're in topdeck mode.
In this case Moat is better than confinament, cause it stalls A LOT better than a single turn fog effect.

Your hand is -1 argothian +1 Presence. Moat is still better, because you can just decide to stall with Grass on turn 2 instead of playing the enchantress. On turn 3 their deck becomes entirely irrilevant but SGC (which is, btw, slow).
You also don't need to hit another enchantress effect (possibly not argothian) to keep the confinament.

Your hand is -1 argothian +1 Sterling grove. This hand is still keepable if you have moat instead of Confinament if you know you're playing against gobbos.

Your hand is -1 Grass +1 words of war/other blank enchantment. You don't know if you can sustain the confinament. Moat is better.

Obviously, if goblin is not starting with Lackey, the game is hugely on your side, and having Confinament or moat usually is the same thing.

Note also that late game, when Elephant Grass stops being as effective, SGC and Fanatic will often be enough to finish you anyway, if your main Confinement plan has fallen through for some reason.

Note also that if you're in the late game it's because something like Moat or Grass happened. Note also that in any game you don't draw an enchantress, or you don't have time to get the full engine going (tutoring for enchantress with Sterling Grove) or have a single enchantress out or your argothian get weirding fucked Moat is a lot better than confinament.

Ichorid - If you made it to the point where you can cast it and you didn't draw any quicker, more relevant cards, I guess it'll win you the game. How often will that happen though?

Quicker, more relevant card such as? Confinament? You want those Elephant grasses in the first/second turn, because ichorid is fast. Maintaining the elephant grass sometime impedes you to play the engine at its full effect.

Loam - This match is about drawing lots of cards and playing Ground Seals. 4 mana enchantments just slow you down.

Moat saves you from 10/10 dudes beating your face. Confinament can't be mantained with 0 lands on board after a DD.

Black-based aggro control - 4 mana spells absolutely must win the game here. Replenish always wins, and is only one white. That double white is felt especially in these match-ups, as Utopia Sprawl'd lands have the unpleasant habit of being Sinkholed and Vindicated. Moat only sometimes wins. It stops neither Hyppy, nor Tombstalker.

Yeah, here moat gets sided out. It's horrible against black.

X Stompy - Look, they have flyers. I don't care if it's "only" 8. That seems like a lot when a SoFI'd Dragon is staring across the board from me and I'm sitting on a Moat.

That also means that they gotta draw a dragon. Or they gotta draw an Arc Slogger with you on < 6/8 life. Sometimes it's just what you need. And in this matchup it's surely a lot better than Elephant grass.

Moat is supposed to be a defensive card. At 4 mana, it had better win games. Against most decks, it doesn't. There are some match-ups where it does, and it's a good SB option, and in certain narrow meta-games, it may be MD material.

A card that usually spells GG in g1 against Threshold, stiflenough and Goblins should seriously get considered in almost every meta.


EDIT. Anyway, i play Confinament in 2x, cause I want to see that card only when I got 2 enchantress effects out. By the time I have them, I'd probably just drew one of those confinaments.

[Zach Tartell]

Perilously drunk:

I hate you all for taking this from fun to bithching.

And not like the Bith from Star Wars.


(yes; I capitolize Star Wars._

At my last tournament I ran 4 Chrome Mox and a split of 3/1 Runed Halo.

It did nothing for me (except saving me like 12 life form Mongoose beats).

EWdit: And turn 1 Argothians.

[GreenOne]

I hate you all for taking this from fun to bithching.

QFT. Yeah, enough on Moat discussion. Let the fun roll again!

At my last tournament I ran 4 Chrome Mox and a split of 3/1 Runed Halo.

It did nothing for me (except saving me like 12 life form Mongoose beats).

EWdit: And turn 1 Argothians.

Split of 3/1 Runed Halo means 3 Confinament / 1 Runed Halo?

I tested 2x Chrome Moxes some time ago, they were quite good in powering out early enchantresses but not a great synergy with either Exploration or the 8 auras (I couldn't keep a 1 Mox hand+Enchantress+Aura without lands).

[Brehn]

Great. If they don't counter it, they have to sweep it, possibly taking out Goyfs they've played. Sweeper count in opponent's deck reduced by one. Suboptimal cards like Oblivion Ring or Elephant Grass don't draw a sweeper from your opponent's deck, since they're not too relevant.

They also don't cost 4 mana, double white.

wat


I think your problem is that you don't realize that Moat helps the Confinement lock, it doesn't make it more inconsistent. With your build you have to accelerate into Confinement against a huge portion of decks and therefore need every enchantment to have a little cost. With a Moat-, Ob.Ring-, Mesa-build you don't need to accelerate into Confinement because you have enough tools to stall the game. This buys you a few turns (and quite often, "a few" has two digits, because digging for an answer or a flyer doesn't always work too well). This means you're playing Confinement 2-20 turns later and your engine is better developed so you don't need crap like Exploration or Gaea's Touch just to prevent Confinement from falling down. It's a different approach.

Ichorid - If you made it to the point where you can cast it and you didn't draw any quicker, more relevant cards, I guess it'll win you the game. How often will that happen though?

Loam - This match is about drawing lots of cards and playing Ground Seals. 4 mana enchantments just slow you down

These comments make me wonder whether you've ever tested these matchups.

Moat saves you from 10/10 dudes beating your face. Confinament can't be mantained with 0 lands on board after a DD.

GreenOne apparently has tested the Aggro Loam matchup. QFT

and in certain narrow meta-games, it may be MD material.

A Threshold+4CLandstill+Dreadstill+Dragon Stompy+Ichorid+Goblins-Meta is not narrow.


And seriously, stop using any argument of "double white". If you can't get double white consistently, rework your manabase because apparently it sucks.

[Zach Tartell]

Split of 3/1 Runed Halo means 3 Confinament / 1 Runed Halo?

(Still drunk in the morning)

No, it was 3 Confinement, 4 Elephant Grass, 3 Runed Halo.

I ran the Halos (without testing them or the moxen) in order to have a better (supposed match) against Tendrils. Shit crushed in testing, 'specially with a Dovescape for backup, but the 3 Halos seemed to be at least 1 too many.

I'll publish my list after I get done letting the devil out.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

wat


I think your problem is that you don't realize that Moat helps the Confinement lock, it doesn't make it more inconsistent. With your build you have to accelerate into Confinement against a huge portion of decks and therefore need every enchantment to have a little cost. With a Moat-, Ob.Ring-, Mesa-build you don't need to accelerate into Confinement because you have enough tools to stall the game. This buys you a few turns (and quite often, "a few" has two digits, because digging for an answer or a flyer doesn't always work too well). This means you're playing Confinement 2-20 turns later and your engine is better developed so you don't need crap like Exploration or Gaea's Touch just to prevent Confinement from falling down. It's a different approach.

And since it's the approach people have been trying for over a year now and utterly failing with, what makes you think it works?

These comments make me wonder whether you've ever tested these matchups.


GreenOne apparently has tested the Aggro Loam matchup. QFT

That's what I love. Tapping out so that they can Burning Wish me out.

Playing Moat means that you're cutting down dramatically on the number of cards you could be drawing. And why? If you have an enchantress out, it should be irrelevant. If you don't, and don't get one to stick, you won't be able to hide behind it indefinitely.

A Threshold+4CLandstill+Dreadstill+Dragon Stompy+Ichorid+Goblins-Meta is not narrow.

Dragon Stompy, Ichorid, and Goblins, are all match-ups where Ground Seal is signifigantly better than Moat. Because they're all match-ups you win unless they manage to race you. 4 mana enchantments don't save you from being race all that well.

If I was really going to MD cards just for Threshold, I'd start with extra Replenishes, then Choke, then maybe Moat.

And seriously, stop using any argument of "double white". If you can't get double white consistently, rework your manabase because apparently it sucks.

In the face of pressure and disruption, getting double white may not be possible. That's not an irrelevant argument. Against decks packing 8+ mana disruption slots, the combination of being double white and 4 mana is a severe liability.

Perhaps you've never had the misfortune of running into such a scenario, but there's this card called "Sinkhole". And it can kill a land, and if that land has Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl on it, it dies too.

False. They got Warren Weirding to fuck your Argothians.

Your hand is Argothian+Utopia+Grass+Confinament+2lands+1white land

The opponent plays lackey turn 1. you play land+aura and pass. He attacks you and drop Piledriver + warchief/matron/whatever.
You play argothian+Grass, he plays Weirding and you're in topdeck mode.
In this case Moat is better than confinament, cause it stalls A LOT better than a single turn fog effect.

What do you mean single turn fog effect?

You just said you played Grass. So...ok. He's not going anywhere for a long time.

Your hand is -1 argothian +1 Presence. Moat is still better, because you can just decide to stall with Grass on turn 2 instead of playing the enchantress. On turn 3 their deck becomes entirely irrilevant but SGC (which is, btw, slow).

Um. Why? What's the advantage of playing Grass on turn 2 in that scenario? They're not going to kill you that turn.

You also don't need to hit another enchantress effect (possibly not argothian) to keep the confinament.

Yes you do. You need multiple enchantresses to win. Unless you win, they'll still SGC you out.

Your hand is -1 argothian +1 Sterling grove. This hand is still keepable if you have moat instead of Confinament if you know you're playing against gobbos.

No enchantress until turn 3 at the earliest?

That hand is terrible. You're never going to win if you keep hands like that?

Your hand is -1 Grass +1 words of war/other blank enchantment. You don't know if you can sustain the confinament. Moat is better.

With one Enchantress?

I know that I can support Confinement, if I have a single Enchantress, because I play a much lower curve that doesn't include crap like Moat.

Note also that if you're in the late game it's because something like Moat or Grass happened. Note also that in any game you don't draw an enchantress, or you don't have time to get the full engine going (tutoring for enchantress with Sterling Grove) or have a single enchantress out or your argothian get weirding fucked Moat is a lot better than confinament.

Not really. Confinement stops Weirding, first of all. Second of all, you still need Enchantresses to win. If you don't win soon, they'll just kill you another way.

Quicker, more relevant card such as? Confinament? You want those Elephant grasses in the first/second turn, because ichorid is fast. Maintaining the elephant grass sometime impedes you to play the engine at its full effect.

This is how much Grass costs.

1st turn 1 mana
2nd turn still 1 mana
3rd turn 2 mana

It takes 3 turns for it to even theoretically tie up your mana the way that Moat does, not even recognizing the difference between staggered cost and straight up.

Moat saves you from 10/10 dudes beating your face. Confinament can't be mantained with 0 lands on board after a DD.

Unless you drew lots of cards, you won't recover anyway. They'll simply play more lands than you from then on, play Burning Wish, and that's the end of you.

That also means that they gotta draw a dragon. Or they gotta draw an Arc Slogger with you on < 6/8 life. Sometimes it's just what you need. And in this matchup it's surely a lot better than Elephant grass.

Grass still holds back early pressure. It can turn an equip->swing into just a swing. And it does it for 1 mana, which means it can work while you're engine is still running drawing cards. Moat's problem is it doesn't work with the engine. You have to take a turn off to play it, and most of the time, it's not worth it.

A card that usually spells GG in g1 against Threshold, stiflenough and Goblins should seriously get considered in almost every meta.

Enchantress beats Goblins ridiculously, with or without Moat. Probably a lot better without.



I don't know how to explain this any more than I've all ready done. Enchantress doesn't work as a control deck; it's not parfait with a draw engine. The deck needs to be fast and aggressive. Anything that slows it down needs to either really pull it's weight, or be tossed. Moat only really shines in the Thresh match-up. And not enough to make up for not shining anywhere else.

[Julian23]

Spatula, I know you've been advocating the more-comboish version of Enchantress for quite a while now and I've seen some of your builds with stuff like Early Harvest. I wonder how it looks right now since I feel like giving it a try :-).

[Obfuscate Freely]

Spatula, I know you've been advocating the more-comboish version of Enchantress for quite a while now and I've seen some of your builds with stuff like Early Harvest. I wonder how it looks right now since I feel like giving it a try :-).

ENGINE:
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Enchantess's Presence
4x Ground Seal
3x Replenish
3x Sterling Grove
1x Sylvan Library

EXCEL:
3x Early Harvest
3x Utopia Sprawl
2x Elvish Spirit Guide
2x Gaea's Touch
1x Exploration
1x Wild Growth

PROTECTION:
4x Elephant Grass
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Karmic Justice
1x Choke
1x Aura of Silence
1x Moat

KILL:
1x Words of War

LANDS:
1x Taiga
2x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
10x Forest

SIDEBOARD:
4x Exalted Angel
3x Enlightened Tutor
1x Karmic Justice
1x Compost
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Sacred Ground
1x Aura of Silence
1x Seal of Cleansing(or maybe it was Primordium. I don't remember)
1x Dovescape
1x Early Harvest

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Are you fucking with me, kid?



8x Enchantresses
4x Ground Seal
3x Sterling Grove
3x Replenish

4x Utopia Sprawl
2x Gaea's Touch
2x Exploration
1x Wild Growth
3x ESG

4x Elephant Grass
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Aura of Silence
1x Karmic Justice

1x Words of War

2x meta slots

2x Serra's Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
2x Savannah
1x Taiga
10x Forest

adjust mana base as necessary depending on meta slots.

[honz]

How has 3 groves been working for you? By only running 2 confinements i have always liked the 4th grove. The 4th grove is also very important post-board, to find your bullets. I never liked running less than 4.

I dont like the MD aura. The card really shines when it comes in early, but the deck doesnt really allow for that to happen. I don't see how your going to find the singleton aura and ww early enough to make a difference. How has that been working out?

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

I've rarely missed the extra Grove. It's a bit unwieldy to cast in multiples, and 3 seems to allow me to see it enough without clogging on 2 or 3 when I don't need them.

The Aura is kinda iffy. It could be a Seal. The main advantages are against Landstill and Groving for it vs decks packing Deed.

Although with Justice in the MD right now that may be unnecessary.

Another advantage though, is that it dodges Counterbalance a lot better than Seal of Whichever.