They keep recurring Wierding via Wort. Every turn they keep your threat off the board.
Jak. was responding to the deleted post.
@ spardantevil : You write many rigth thoughts .
With this list , you will have good mu against all control decks , for SoSL-difter-sower recursions .
With this list , you will have some problems vs aggro decks like gob.
The problem is gob is a tier 1 , and it is normally play against it in a competitive tournament .
Only solution is a side devote to fight it : jitte , pro red creature , and propaganda ( if you like it).
Almoust 7 slots vs gob .
Because this list is slower than old .
Is only a choice.
bye bye
The thing is aggro is quite unplayed in my area. If it was I'd go back to the old version in a second, but it's not so I have to do as I can. But finding myself losing against some random sligh/burn.dec w/flame javelin actually hurts. I've been thinking about these SB jitte without ever finding the courage to work it out, so let's brainstorm for it, dear FS fellow players.
Eldariel's (last known) SB:
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 3 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 2 [A] Control Magic
Eldariel's is playing the 1-Chalice-MD version, which I will never play. Chalice @1 is too strong not to be played in my meta, being infested of StP, Stifle, Brainstorms and such... So let's not discuss about it.
3 Back to Basics: undiscutable. It takes the win from so much situations and against so much bad MUs it's almost impossible not to play. 3 is the right number.
3 tormod's crypt: Discutable. To get in against ichorid I guess. I actually don't like it, as it is the Ichorid-Hate n°1 played in an awesome number of decks, the ichorid player is ALWAYS prepared against Tormod's Crypt (4 CotV @0, 4 needle) so I kinda prefer Propaganda against Icho ( which is, sorry to insist, strong against goblins). But Crypt also "rapes" aggro loam so it's not a card tu cut. Still I wouldn't play 3. I'd prefer to play the 4th Trinket Mage instead of the 3rd Crypt. What do you think?
1 Pithing Needle: Very good, strong against almost everything. Almost undiscutable.
3 Misdirection: Hm, can't really decide. Against decks playing spot removal and/or discard I guess. Do you play them over Force of Will or in addition?
2 Control Magic: 4th and 5th Sower. I don't know :/. Isn't it a little too much?
Yamaelle's (last known) SB:
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Trinket Mage
1 Engineered Explosive
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Back to Basics
3 Sea Sprite
3 Silent Arbitrer
1 Sower: Understandable, 4th one to bring in against heavy control.dec.
1 Trinket: To me, impossible not to play. He is too awesome not to be played. Virtually gets the artifact toolbox numbers higher, I awlays like to see one.
1 EE: I bring it against Belcher, Ichorid and sometimes Thresh (for mongooses/tops, but it's not this awesome compared to the raw power of Chalice). I like it, until something better comes, i'll keep it.
1 Tormod's Crypt: already seen. I'd play a second instead of the 2nd needle because it's largely stronger against Loam.
2 Needle: Already seen.
3 Back to Basics: Same.
3 Sea Sprite: I love pro-R Faeries, I love Rebecca Guay, but I still prefer Weatherseed Faeries. Yeah Sea sprites comes quicklier (just needs 1 island and 1 Chrome Mox to be dropped on T1, whereas Weatherseed needs a 2 mana land), but it's actually worsee thant the other if you have a 2mana-land. In a classic way(1 island, 1 2mana-land in play), you'll have to burn yourself (1 with city, 3 with tomb) in MU where lifeloss actually matters.
3 Silent Arbiter: Already said everything I thought about him.
Mixing these two leads me to this sideboard:
3 Back to Basics
1 Trinket Mage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engeneered Explosives
2 Tormod's crypt
8 slots that respond to many many strategies all over Legacy. The rest actually depends. I'm currently thinking of:
3 Propaganda
3 Jitte
1 Misdirection
Some kind of an anti-aggro SB, like coma said. Damn the pro-R, jitte is stronger against more decks. Misdi could act as a 5th FoW (mainly for stuff like snuff out/vindicate/Pyrokinesis).
What do you guys think? Am I forgetting something? Do you think it's good? Do you think I should in fact play something else?
PS: sorry for annoying you all with such big posts which are not innovating anything, but I like to be sure about what I do, and I like to progress in MtG
Cloud Spirit or Rishdian Airship maybe pretty good substitubes for Sea Drake.
In general both cards are very solid at the moment. Cards like Extripate and other 1 damage burn spells meant to deal with Lackey disappeared from the meta completely.
Guys, I already asked this but...
Snakeform, yeah or nay?
It brings any threat within range of Trinket Mage, Mulldrifter, Cloud of Faires, Jitte counter, SOFI's 2 damage etc. All while cantripping and fitting the curve perfectly.
Seems like the best way to deal with creatures now the Psionic Blast has been obsoleted by Tarmogoyf.
Perhaps a sideboard card?
I believe I was just pwned on MWS by this deck (as in someone on these threads). Turns out, Propaganda is a devastating card for Ichorid (then again, I was new to playing the deck).
EDIT: Also, how is the deck? I've been looking for a deck to dump my playset of Mint Sea Drakes and Force of Wills into, and I've been thinking of this deck, since it whooped me earlier.
Face it, these are not Fairie Stompy lists. You can't be called Fairie Stompy if you run a grand total of two fairies.
If you want to see a real fairie stompy list, look over...
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...44&postcount=9
Now that's a deck that earns the name, Fairie Stompy.
So, does anyone have any thoughts on Snakeform yet. Has anyone gotten around to trying it?
Clark: Just don't get into the name arguments, ok? Those really never get anywhere - FS's name was established for a deck with Drakes and Efreets way before Faeries in any kind or form were potentially competitive.
I have yet to try Snakeform - it's kind of hard to fit the card in there without cutting something better. That said, it could be a decent card against Goyfs and Aggro Loam, so I'll have to think if I should try it.
Spardantevil: I'm playing a 4-Chalice version online. Fact is that while 1-Chalice version is better vs. control and BGW, online those archetypes just don't exist in the numbers I see them offline, so the change is not warranted. My latest sideboard:
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
9 [UNH] Island
// Creatures
1 [SC] Shoreline Ranger
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [P2] Sea Drake
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
3 [LRW] Pestermite
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
3 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 2 [MM] Misdirection
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
As you can see, I took steps to help with Goblins, especially on the draw. BEBs have been a surprise hit: Aggro Loam really hates the card (and Chalices are laid at 2 there anyways), it really further shores up the Burn-match, additional answers to 1-drop Joblins on the draw are awesome and overall, the card has served its purpose.
Further, Jitte is a recent addition - I figured there're enough matches where you want Jitte over SoLS (starting with Goblins) that I tossed it back in. The only thing I'd want on the SB is a 4th Sower of Temptation, but bleh.
Everyone and their grandmother already knows that Eldariel. No need to get overprotective over the name. I really need to stop being sarcastic online. It doesn't translate as well as it does in real life.Originally Posted by Eldariel
Why have you excluded Cloud of Faeries from your new list? Are they really that unwanted?
If you're having trouble with Goblins, why not play Propaganda in the board? It's good against Goblins, Thresh, and especially Ichorid. I dunno what I'd replace though.
I would suggest putting Jitte in the main and replace them in the board with Propaganda. As for Thresh, don't they usually run Krosan Grip in the side?
Regarding Pestermite vs. Cloud of Faeries: I'm playing Pestermite over Cloud since there's a number of decks right now that run a lot of removal. That means whichever creature sticks around better be able to finish the job off and therefore the 2/1 is better than 1/1. Also, Pestermite is great for breaking Standstills at opportune moments, Time Walking control (when they'd reach 4 mana), dropping Pseudo-haste threat at the EOT and thanks to the untap ability, it can still pull off those flurry turns (although not as well) Cloud of Faeries is known for and being a threat opponent worries about when mana is left untapped (after they've seen it played at least once).
Right now, I feel Pestermite is superior, mostly due to the versatility and size. Also, the reason for my present configuration is again the fact that Goblins and company aren't the primary metagame threat; they're something you need to be prepared for, but not the primary deck to aim to beat. Sword of Light and Shadow tends to be far stronger versus Threshold-variants, BGW and especially control-decks with w, b or both than Jitte as it allows me to dominate the war of attrition, and gives me threats that can simply ignore StP, recurring Shriekmaws and all similar nonsense (and fly through Tombstalkers, Mystic Enforcers, Decree-tokens and so on). Jitte is better against aggro, SoLS against control, and right now I'm more worried about control than aggro.
Regarding Propaganda: Propaganda was always an issue for me - it never seems right to bring it in over anything. All the MD cards do something alone while Propaganda...well, Propaganda slows opponent down for a mana investment. In other words, I spend some amount of mana so that opponent has to spend mana too. That just doesn't feel too good. It doesn't give me a threat, it doesn't reduce opponent's life total, it doesn't even protect my threats. Therefore, I don't see how it could take the slot of a creature nor the slot of equipment meaning that the only thing I could cut for it are Chalices or Force of Wills. As I feel both tend to be better cards than Propaganda in most matches (the singular exception would probably be Ichorid, which again doesn't have enough metagame presence to warrant specific hate), I don't see bringing it in.
In fact, I played in the last Salvation-tournament to Top 8 with 3 Propagandas on the side and didn't sideboard them in ONCE. Not once over 6 rounds. When playing vs. Goblins, I often notice that their aggro plan isn't really a problem, but when one lets them into midgame and they start crapping their hand on board each turn drawing a new hand, things get dicey. From this standpoint, it almost feels like playing a Propaganda is in their advantage as you spend a turn not playing threats, but instead forcing them to pay for attacking. I feel Jitte is much stronger SB-card in this match-up along with a broad range of other utility against red decks and other suicidal aggro.
Regarding Goblins: Presently I'm not experiencing much trouble vs. Goblins. I mean, the match-up is losable as always (and the newer versions are almost certainly harder than the mono-red variants I tested against when I first built the deck), but the Chalice @ 1 wins combined with the ability to bring BEBs and EE to slow them down on the draw enough for Jitte/SoFI to take over has been quite successful. I feel the worst match-up remains the variety of BGW midrange decks chockful of removal, Deeds and recursion.
Clark: Pardon the tone, a billion people saying similar stuff seriously makes me wary of such comments. Also, the fact that your post was so short kind of made it feel like that comment was the point of the whole message, adding to the illusion of you meaning what you said.
Eldariel -
Since you are using EE in the SB, wouldn't you need to play a dual-land/fetch land to allow you to use EE to wipe the board ofcasting cost permanents?
Unless it's sole reason was just there to clear the board of/
cc perms
EDIT: grammar
My fave decks to run:
Death & Taxes
Aggro Loam
Mono Blue Control
Enchantress
I used to run one along with fetches. Turns out, it isn't worth opening yourself up to Wasteland, Blood Moon and making your own Back to Basics weaker. The fact that fetches open you up to Stifle and cause further damage to you didn't help either.
EE is worth it at 1 though - the primary reason it was included in the first place was to deal with Pithing Needles and Goblin-tokens. As an added benefit, it's quite awesome in the Goblins-MU, since they rely on their 1-drops for mana cheating (and are often manascrewed when denied Vials/Lackeys), can be used to break Worship-locks in the Threshold-MU (by killing the Nimble Mongeese) and so on. It's generally too clunky to drop at 2, but at 1 and 0, it's pretty quick to cast and therefore quite handy. Most of the 2-drops can be dealt with alternative means anyways (Survival et al. meets Needle/Force and the creatures can all be Sowered).
As I said, I tested EE with 2-colour lands, but I just never ended up in a sitiuation where I'd want to cast it at 2 for a variety of reasons - those sitiuations are rare enough and those sitiuations when you'd have the mana and the means to find EE are even more rare. It's just not worth it.
In the right meta, I believe it can be worth it with duals. I still play 2 fetch and 2 duals. It makes your manabase a bit more shaky (especially since I don't play Shoreline Ranger) but I found that it helps against Loam, ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and Landstill (god I hate Goyf).
@JeroenC: Spalsh , in fs , in majority of situations is a choice that wheaken this deck .
Normally we have to make , for our deck , balance and firm choices.
@spardantevil : your latest sb is good .
Now you try , and understand if is enough for your need , because we are all different , so we have different needs.
bye
Last edited by coma; 08-19-2008 at 11:31 AM.
@coma: I know. However I'm already in a pretty bad meta for me and being able to play an EE@2 is really helpful.
Edit: though I've realised that I'm underestimating the power of Back to Basics with that statement... I'm dropping the option of EE@2.
Edit2: @ Eldariel: don't you ever have a lack of lands? Isn't seventeen a bit on the low side? I play 18 and I'd like to go up to 19...
Edit3(hopefully the last): my list...
// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
10 [IA] Island (2)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
// Creatures
4 [P2] Sea Drake
4 [R] Serendib Efreet
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [FD] Trinket Mage
3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
3 [LRW] Pestermite
// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DS] Sword of Fire and Ice
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [10E] Pithing Needle
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [A] Control Magic
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [US] Back to Basics
I'm tinkering with the SB. I'm thinking of dropping a Needle and an Explosives but I don't know what to fill that hole up with immediately.
I'd also like to open up two maindeck slots. One for an Island or a Seat of the Synod and one for a one mana Equipment. What's the best one?
Last edited by JeroenC; 08-20-2008 at 06:15 PM.
Normally…
Necessary mana base is 22 sources , and if you play 4 trinket you can play 1 seat of the sinod.
I don’t know what you need , but sb fs cards’ are :
Mis-d 0/3
Btb / winter orb 3 (4 is too much)
Control creature effect’s 2/3 (sower, control magic , binding grasp ,…)
Needle 1/2 (because normally 1 is main)
E.e. 1/2 (if you play main 1 is enough , I think!)
Crypt 1/2 ( you have to remember play 4 trinkets )
Pro-red creature 1/3
Equippe 1/3
Propaganda/silent arbitrer 3/4
Bouncer effects 2/3
This is what I learn it . I learn to see the builds of good fs players .
Then it is a question of your personal choices , linked what you need .
I hope to answered you.
Bye
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